Dark 2012/05/01(Tue)14:23 No. 406587 ID: f2c010
File 133590739187.png - (110.63KB , 640x480 , c2-18.png )

The chaos sustains me. If I were to somehow leave it, I would die.

I will learn. I will consume only those who strike first. Making things. This is a strange concept for me to consider. How do I make things? The only things I know of are the dead mass of other creatures. It is more useful eaten before it is absorbed into the fluid chaos. Only life preserves anything with structure.

Something is nearby. I know it to be unaware of my presence. My new empathic senses are unfamiliar to me. Many weak sensations blur into themselves. I cannot discern any strong emotions. It is doing something strange. I do not understand.

Greet it.

Approach cautiously.

follow cautiously. do not get in it's range of sight.

Dark 2012/05/01(Tue)15:12 No. 406616 ID: f2c010
File 133591033826.png - (115.19KB , 640x480 , c2-19.png )

I approach with caution and alert it to my presence. -I do not intend to eat you.-

The other creature freezes up. The only movement it makes are the gentle motions caused by the flow of chaos around it. I move a little closer.

Its head slowly moves to face me. It remains silent and begins to turn pointed appendages towards me. It does not feel aggressive or overtly hostile. It does feel cautious, however.

Ask it if it can speak, and maybe give it a little space so it feels less threatened.

Dark 2012/05/01(Tue)16:09 No. 406658 ID: f2c010
File 133591377289.png - (36.87KB , 640x480 , c2-20.png )

-Can you speak?-

It does not respond. I move away. It continues to watch me, its appendages still raised to defend itself.

-I mean you no harm. I wish to exchange information for mutual benefit.-
-There is nothing you can know that I can consider useful.-

And how do you know that, my friend?

>>406688
Yeah, this.

Introduce yourself.

Ask it what it was doing just a moment ago.

Dark 2012/05/01(Tue)21:24 No. 406783 ID: f2c010
File 133593269826.png - (69.70KB , 640x480 , c2-21.png )

-My identity is Dark, for it was within darkness I gained awareness, before I grew to peer into its physical and conceptual depths. Why do you assume I cannot share anything useful with you?-
-Dark? Not Memory?-
-No. I have known others named Curiosity and Reason, but not Memory.-

I feel a strong wave of relief so palpable I almost feel washed away by it. It dies quickly and is replaced by confusion and curiosity.

-Your confidence is strange and unsettling. It is as if you were aware of my intentions without me communicating them. I believe knowing how to do that is something I will consider useful.-
-Then there is value in sharing information. What is your identity, and what are you currently doing?-
-My identity is Shape. I am attempting to form the chaos into things, but it is proving difficult. I am considering assembling lower creatures into structures. It is difficult to convey my ideas. What do you know of effective and efficient communication?-

Communication? That's one of our special traits! Sign us up!

Suspicion: Are we projecting thoughts? This creature seems a large amount of things that are interesting.

Then again, probabilities and chaos never work well together.

I wonder if you could use empathic thingy to make mindless beings do things for you.

Perhaps we can learn a trait to shape the chaos mentally? Some sort of cohesive and formative powers, like a kind of telekinesis. That would be wonderful to our mutually convergent goals.

Tell him that you were just thinking the same thing. Become partners.

>>406901
this is an exelent basis, but i dont think it will be so simple. Shapes ideas of creating structure from the interactions within beings less able to decide their own actions is a worthy one, and reminds me of cellular automata.

but is it possible to do something of the scope we speak of, create a haven in the chaos, by using units not elementary to ourselfves, IE thousands of tiny life structures? such things could be used to help build and portect our haven, like cells in a body, but they would not be the haven itself.

WE NEED TO GO DEEPER.

Dark 2012/05/02(Wed)15:54 No. 407144 ID: f2c010
File 133599925604.png - (41.42KB , 640x480 , c2-22.png )

-I am able to communicate effectively.-
-This is what I was referring to. I meant a way to share my ideas as this is too limiting. This communication. It is hard to explain.-
-I was considering making something from the chaos also. When did you begin?-
-Long ago before you ever came nearby. I thought of doing this before you did.-
-Understood. Can I help?-
-What do you know about making things from the chaos?! I have been trying to do this instead of finding anything to eat for so long, I am twice the length of my head shorter than when I began! What insight can you possibly offer?! You can't possibly understand anything I am trying to do here!!-

>>407144
Ask if it can help you understand.

Can we change a permanent feature? Absorb the spines for the moment for IMPROVED COMMUNICATION so you can explain how your EMPATHY works to Shape

You understand that there needs to be more to life than just murdering and eating until you get murdered and eaten yourself, and that trying to make something, be it physical or otherwise, is the only way you can give your life any meaning?

he gains a fresh perspective, and another pair of hands. the two of us working together are more likely to succeed than either of us working alone.

>>407218
>>407160
these

Anyone else thinking multi-cellular life needs to be invented?

>>407288
>>407237
these

>>407144

size matters, but it isn't everything.

Dark 2012/05/03(Thu)11:14 No. 407591 ID: f2c010
File 133606887944.png - (48.08KB , 640x480 , c2-23.png )

Dark already possesses Improved Communication. The barrier in understanding lies not in Dark's ability to communicate ideas to Shape but in Shape's ability to communicate ideas to Dark.

-I want to understand. I know there has to be more to this life than the endless cycle of eating and killing until death and creation of more creatures. If we work together, we can achieve more than we could working alone. I can sense your emotions, Shape. I know you have no anger against me. I can feel your sorrow. I know you do not know if you can trust me, but I can trust you.-

Shape is very silent. I place a limb on its head as a gesture of trust. It stares for a while and places one of its own appendages onto it.

-This is all so futile. All of it. I have eaten mindless creatures and learned they were not always without thought. It became too much for them. Too much thought about this existence. They felt consciousness was a pointless waste. They swallowed their own minds for better weapons, better shells, faster movement. They felt pain when I ate them but no sadness, no fear, no regret. Nothing but reflex action and memories too advanced for them to understand.-

Dark 2012/05/03(Thu)11:14 No. 407592 ID: f2c010
File 133606888906.png - (81.76KB , 640x480 , c2-24.png )

-I want to change this existence. I want to create something. I will die. All of us will. I want something to exist when I no longer will.-
-I want to help.-
-Why?-
-Why do you want to create? Instinct dictates I should eat you or flee from you. But instinct can be ignored. Perhaps even changed. I have learned from another the value of co-operation.-
-It's all futile. Even if we succeed, what next? Continue lead by a fantasy until we are interrupted by a mindless but strong creature that effortlessly drags us screaming into its maw?-
-We are thinkers. We can plan. Perhaps we can make something that will have a use beyond merely existing. Perhaps a weapon or a defence.-
-Why create something like that when we can shape ourselves for such purposes?-
-Why remain limited to the constraints of our bodies if we can assemble external structures and use them?-

Shape says nothing but I know something stirs within it. I am aware of a growing excitement, one which I partially share in response.

-Yes. We shall work together! I still do not know how to share my designs with you, however. I cannot contort myself into the right shapes.-

contort something else into the shapes. draw blueprints or something.

Or have Shape trace it on you with a tendril

Why limit yourself to two or three dimensions when you could express plans in pure mathematical terms? You could create structures of arbitrary complexity, n-shapes capable of confusing most non-thinkers. Even a simple hypercube fort would foil most attackers. An 11-D fort would be a maze of passages all leading in different directions, each part integral to the design.

As a bonus you could share simpler designs in pure math as well. But the primary benefit is being able to develop arbitrarily complex constructs.

>>407774
exelent; with mathmatics all we need do is develop terms for the concepts, and we have the language required to tranmit any data, no matter how complex.

>>407592
Would it be possible for us to form a temporary organ for even better empathy- enough to convey images or thoughts?

Or maybe there is some way we could take advantage of our unique senses, and Shape could 'draw' in the chaos in a way we can see.

Or we could capture another chaos creature and use its body as a canvas. Yessssssss.

>>408008
Or temporary telepathy (or improved telepathy if that's already how we're communicating) so we can understand Shape even if it doesn't know how to convey its ideas?

Dark 2012/05/09(Wed)09:09 No. 409999 ID: f2c010
File 133657974661.png - (119.05KB , 640x480 , c2-25.png )

-Trace the shapes on me.-

I hold out one of my tentacles and flatten it out. I take another tentacle and trace a line around to indicate what I mean. Shape's eyes widen and its tongues wiggle rapidly.

-That's a brilliant idea! Why did that never occur to me? Hold still.-

Shape starts tracing marks on my flattened limb. I stain the parts of me it touches and change the texture. Hopefully this will let both me feel what Shape is trying to convey and allow Shape to see what it is tracing.

Dark 2012/05/09(Wed)09:09 No. 410000 ID: f2c010
File 133657975976.png - (38.60KB , 640x480 , c2-26.png )

-I do not know how to make these designs, but perhaps you can share some insight or new designs. I had the idea firstly for a structure to provide some protection from the open chaos and its constant flows. I was inspired by the thick shells of some of the larger creatures. Its size would depend on how it could be built and what would be used to build it.-

Dark 2012/05/09(Wed)09:09 No. 410001 ID: f2c010
File 133657977383.png - (55.08KB , 640x480 , c2-27.png )

-I also had the idea of a structure to capture several smaller creatures. I had this idea watching a group of creatures hunting. We could try to befriend and teach those with the promise for greater intelligence and use the rest as a low risk, high yield food source.-

Dark 2012/05/09(Wed)09:09 No. 410002 ID: f2c010
File 133657978379.png - (57.04KB , 640x480 , c2-28.png )

-Your suggestion of a weapon reminded me of a needle launcher I grew once. We could create needle launchers for use by both of us with suitable materials. This would provide us with a useful weapon while leaving us free to focus our bodies on other things.-

-If you have any ideas, show me them. Also, I was once considering trying to make things by swallowing the materials and assembling them inside me, but this won't be practical for large objects and I don't know how I would safely remove the objects once assembled without some internal damage.-

You know, if it's possible to make things that behave like certain parts of chaos creatures, you could probably make something that works like what you're doing with your limb to portray images, and store them.

>>410002
Structure+gun. Weapon emplacement. Smaller structures capable of being 'worn', for personal armor. Propulsion attachments, for extra speed. Cluster structures, to add extra security by limiting paths which attackers can take.

the two of you could grow an organ that allows consumed material to be spit out as a sticky fluid that dries solid after a while. like a mortarbutt or something.

Dark 2012/05/21(Mon)18:11 No. 414909 ID: 9e3c3d
File 133764909070.png - (91.70KB , 640x480 , c2-29.png )

-First, maybe keeping these plans would be a wise idea.-

I will sever my flattened appendage. It does not prove difficult. I weaken the connection between the appendage and my body, and bite it off. Ouch. I grab at the stump in reflex and in pain, but the idea seems to have worked.

Shape, confused, bats at the floating limb, before taking hold of it and scrutinising its own work.

The severed limb starts to wiggle and writhe. We both hold it still. Shape looks at me with wide, concerned eyes.

-Is there any particular reason you feel like shedding biomass? If you're that desperate to lose it, I'll put it to good use.-

Dark 2012/05/21(Mon)18:12 No. 414911 ID: 9e3c3d
File 133764914887.png - (70.13KB , 640x480 , c2-30.png )

The flat limb slips out of our combined grips and is gone before I even realise. Shape snares it with its tongues and drags it, squirming wildly in protest, into its mouth.

-You are the blandest creature I have tasted in my entire life. Blegh. Still, got it while it was in one piece.-

I don't know how to feel about that. The loss of that limb is not a great detriment to me right now, but I won't be trying that again in the future.

-Well, tasting lousy means it's less likely you'll eat me, right?-
-Did you know that some creatures think that consciousness is directly related to tastiness? It was something I picked up on from a mindless shell a while ago. Thank you for disproving that theory entirely. That one had a much better flavour.-

Did I get insulted?

Dark 2012/05/21(Mon)18:12 No. 414912 ID: 9e3c3d
File 133764916278.png - (101.00KB , 640x480 , c2-31.png )

-Back to our ideas, however.-

I probably taste great! Wait. If I try to test that now Shape will be suspicious. I'll find out later when Shape isn't paying attention. Oh. Shape is waiting for me to say something.

-Ideas? Oh. Yes. I think structures to defend would be beneficial. Places to position ourselves to launch attacks at intruders. Armor that can be attached to ourselves without being part of ourselves. Propulsion structures.-

Shape doesn't respond, but I can sense its approval. It waves its limbs for me to continue.

-Maybe we could form these structures by spitting out materials that would become solid outside our bodies?-
-Again with the unnecessary biomass shedding.-
-Do you have any better ideas?-
-Not throwing away biomass when I'm already starving!-
-But you just ate my-
-Already starving. Do you think a severed limb is enough to keep me stable? You could use a meal to make up for that limb, too. Let's go look for food. We can think after we eat.-

Dark 2012/05/21(Mon)18:12 No. 414913 ID: 9e3c3d
File 133764917367.png - (83.19KB , 640x480 , c2-32.png )

Against my protests, Shape moves and I follow. -There are a lot of clusters of smaller creatures nearby,- Shape tells me as we move, -and they have often been a useful food source.-

-Is eating those far smaller than us wrong?-

Shape ponders my words. -No. They are still not thinkers. Watch them. They group to feed on each other, not to ally.-

I feel tiny disturbances in the chaos around us as the creatures rip and tear chunks of biomass from each other.

-Have you fed from a swarm before?-
-No.-
-I strongly recommend you think through what you want to do before you charge in. If you just rush straight at them, there are more of them than you, and for each creature you can defend against many more will attack other parts of you.-
-Can we work together?-
-I am not sure how it would help. What are you thinking?-

I can feel a far larger disturbance approaching this swarm slowly.

>>414913
Tell Shape that something is coming, he is not likely to know yet. Try to estimate how long it will take for it to get here, and give Shape that estimate- he should have a better idea about how long it would take to catch some of these things.

Personally I think that picking off a few at the edges of the swarm would be a good idea. Try not to get the attention of the whole swarm while doing it. Be sneaky.

Aww! You made a baby! I guess you should probably remember how shedding that stuff works. It would be useful to be able to not explode into babies all at once when you get too big. Maybe in the future if you get better at food you can keep one! Raising your own child would be a step up from most chaos creatures.

Also you should probably tell Shape that something's coming so you guys don't get eaten...

>>414915
Sounds good

Also: Did your biomass keep its shape, for the most part? Or was it completely unstable?

>>414913
>-Can we work together?-
>-I am not sure how it would help. What are you thinking?-
Tell shape to go with his usual plan of attack, while you'll follow behind and snap up the ones that try to latch onto him so he can feed without concern. After all, he's the smart one, and you can't think on an empty stomach, since he'll be doing a lot of thinking after this feeding session.
Also let him know that you have the ability to sense large predators from beyond visible distance, and if you say it's time to go, it means something BIG is headed our way.

>>414913
>I can feel a far larger disturbance approaching this swarm slowly.
Oh boy, tell Shape to hold back, you sense a bigger Chaos creature has already targeted this swarm. Ask him to wait a little bit to see if it stays the course. If it is big enough, you might be able to sneak some bites off of it, it might even be reasonable. Remember Curiosity's lessons:
>-what are others like-
>-Mostly cruel and vicious, but we have to eat each other to grow, and if we don't grow, we die. Compassion is difficult to maintain when we have to eat things that aren't so different from us ourselves.