>>1086766
*spoil

I mean... they did notice. They did notice stuff falling from the sky. And exploding. And probably starting to burn up in the atmosphere thus looking like falling stars.

At least from reasonably afar. And the people who were in the spots from which a spaceship could have been seen were probably too dead to write legends about it after impact.

Since the investigations are still ongoing, any evidence created notably before impact may still be buried and looked for.

Silicon 2024/03/29(Fri)03:21 No. 1087370 ID: b22bc5
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Sabotage... What if it was sabotage... You're an engineer...
The abyss looms again.

No.
You're not thinking about that right now.

Silicon 2024/03/29(Fri)03:21 No. 1087371 ID: b22bc5
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THWACK!

"Ack!" "Whoah!"

Silicon 2024/03/29(Fri)03:22 No. 1087372 ID: b22bc5
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"Fucking stop!", Shyama yells.

Oof, that hurt. It felt familiar.
You shake your head a little to get clear your thoughts. Ow. Okay. No more head shaking.

Silicon 2024/03/29(Fri)03:22 No. 1087373 ID: b22bc5
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"Okay, I'm good. I'm good. Sorry, I... had trouble letting go for a moment there.", you groan.

Shyama looks at you with concern and says: "Please don't do that again. The last thing you need is more head trauma, Disq!"
"Yeah... Okay, yeah. No worries. I got it.", you say, "Uuuuhh let's talk about the timeline then.
"So what I figure is that the screen displays two different years because one is from the perspective of a time traveler and the other is how long it's been since... well probably since I arrived here. Though i hope I haven't been conscious for over two thousand years."
"If that were the case I'd say you're shockingly sane", Shyama concurs, "Or you're hiding it remarkably well."
"The Amnesia might be helping.", you say with a bitter smirk.
"Perhaps. Uh.. Could you elaborate on the 'perspective of a time traveler' idea? I'm not sure what you mean by that.", he inquires.

You think for a moment.
Then you say: "Well, the first number is 2080 HU. According to what you've told me that's exactly the number of years between the Apennine Cataclysm and now. This suggests to me that that's when these time travelers arrived and 'unmade history'.
"The second number is 4361 CE. If you subtract one from the other you get 2281 CE. That's a year number that feels... contemporary? it feels like it's... part of my personal context. And in fact, the number makes me feel... anxious. It's probably important.
"So, I believe that the time jump went from 2281 CE to about -100 CE."
Shyama nods. "That makes sense.", he says.

"That last bit of uncertainty bothers me. I have some ideas for reference events that should let us nail it down. But for a couple of those, I'm struggling with how to communicate them. After all, you probably have completely different names for places. How do I explain what the Tunguska area is?", you say.
"I can sketch a map for you, if you like.", Shyama says.
"That could work."

You flip over a page on your writing pad and slide it over to Shyama, who goes to work on a world map.
You can see Vijaya fidgeting behind him. She's clearly anxious.

Silicon 2024/03/29(Fri)03:22 No. 1087374 ID: b22bc5
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You can't seem to think of any astronomical phenomena whose exact date you're certain about and that are simple to communicate. You suppose you didn't memorize arcane planetary alignments. So you figure the more terrestrial ones will have to do. You're feeling pretty confident about the Tunguska Event though.

Shyama finishes the map. You note the interesting shift in how it's centered.

"All right. I'll mark some locations that should have had notable eruptions in recent history. And also something we call the Tunguska Event. That one I'm sure you would know about.", you explain as you begin adding little marks to the map with the years of the events, "There was a mysterious explosion just around here, that flattened all the trees in a huge area without leaving a crater. Distant eyewitnesses saw a light as bright as the sun, a red burst and then they were eventually lifted bodily off their feet by the shockwave."

Vijaya seems to start vibrating.

"Oh! Yes! The Evenkasthana Explosion!" Shyama sighs: "Ah but I'm not sure what exact year that was. If only somebody did."

Vijaya looks like she's about to explode.

Shyama lets her stew for a couple more seconds before asking: "Do you know, Vijaya?"

And she beams like the Tunguska Event.

Silicon 2024/03/29(Fri)03:25 No. 1087375 ID: b22bc5
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She hurries over to the table and excitedly tears the writing pad away from you as Shyama hands her a pen.
"Well, that one's easy!", she says, "2451 exactly. And uhhh... Volcanoes, huh? Let's see. Okay that's the Rakata in 2426. Hmmm... the others are tricky. I'm pretty sure I would have known if there had been a major eruption in Mayneela... This one up here definitely exploded yeah. I think that's the Puirluni. but I'm not sure when that was... the Gagxanul... Pffff. I dunno. But hey! Two out of six is not bad, right?!"

You look at the map. Right. You can't actually read Kushani. You do know how to say numbers, though and that's base-ten. So chances are that they also write them down that way. And if that's the case...
"I can't read this.", you say as you write a column of numbers over the pacific ocean, "Could you tell me what this writing means and also tell me the numbers again?"
Vijaya points to parts of the map: "Unknown. Unsure. 2451, 2426."
You note that down. "Thank you. And perhaps you could list your numerals from 0 to 9 here?", you ask.

Vijaya hesitates and looks to Shyama who simply nods. Then she writes down some numerals.

After studying those for a moment, you flip back to the timeline.

Silicon 2024/03/29(Fri)03:25 No. 1087376 ID: b22bc5
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With the 1908 CE Tunguska Event nailed down to 2451 BP you now have a proper conversion method. After all, the most likely explanation for it is an unusual asteroid which would not be affected by terrestrial events two millennia prior.

This places the supposed death of the Buddha in -543 CE and the Apennine Cataclysm in... -111 CE or 112 BCE.

It also gives you 2824 BP for that dreaded 2281 CE and most notably:

"It's 1969. That explains why you only recognized three of these eruptions! The other two are future events."

Shyama notes that down on his own writing pad.

You're pretty pleased with having the timeline figured out. A little bit of order in all this confusion.

>>1087376
Oh, you know future events. I suppose you can tell them about other up
What else can we investigate at this point? Well, you can point out how the map is different where you're from. The americas (whatever they call those continents) were on the left. Oh, ask how that particular wrinkle went for them. The ocean separated the two major landmasses for quite a long time until someone decided to sail across it- who was it in their timeline? Did they treat the natives okay? That... did not go well in your timeline.

Ask Shyama if he's willing to tell you anything about what they've found on the ship. Or what other objects they took from your room. (also see if you can verify if you have your pronouns mixed up somehow, Shyama doesn't look like he's presenting as male at all)
Oh, maybe you can ask them about their culture. What's it like on earth right now?

Warn them about global warming. Uh, what else. Threats to the ozone layer? What was the gas in the refrigation units now again? That damaged that Ah, and for the love of goodness, don’t put lead in petrol or paint, or get rid of it asap if you do.

They’re ahead technologically in some ways, seems. That feels encouraging. But might be making other mistakes so who knows. Computer tech feels behind, sorta.

>>1087377

The Americas were on the left because Eurocentrism, which had Europe placed prominently in the map. Easy to understand there. Lots of map choices are arbitrary.

Alright. If you are 1969-ish, then, I have a lot of things that might help. Let's see here... Remove lead from gasoline/petrol; engine knock can be solved by higher octane and eventually electronic fuel injection and variable valve timing, and leaded gasoline is a public health crisis. Reduce use of chlorofluorocarbons in refrigerants and aerosols, which deplete the ozone layer, contributing to the Ozone Hole over Antarctica discovered in 1985.

Alright, big planetary events. 1976 Tangshan China Earthquake; 1980 huge eruption with Mt. St. Helens; Huge earthquake hits Mexico City in 1985. Extremely strong El Nino event, uh an oceanic-atmospheric oscillation event in the equatorial Pacific Ocean, in 1997 and 1998. European heat wave in 2003. Huge Indian Ocean earthquake and Tsunami in 2004. Haiti earthquake in 2010.

Do NOT ignore warnings on human-caused climate change via greenhouse gasses, and invest heavily in attempts to mitigate them. Transition to renewable energy sources as soon as possible. Man-made climate change is an existential threat.

Technologically, silicon-based semiconductors will be huge. Optical computing is more niche, and it makes sense to go all-in with traditional methods for a very, very long time. Invest more in microchip research. Packet Switching, involving breaking down data into packets before sending them to their destination via the most efficient route, is foundational for developing the Internet, a worldwide network of computer networks.

In medicine, focus on the importance of vaccinations and the establishment of global health monitoring systems to quickly identify and respond to emerging infectious diseases, preventing pandemics.

In material science, explore the potential of carbon fiber and composite materials for their strength and lightweight properties. Experiment with photocatalysis using titanium dioxide for breaking down pollutants under UV light, helpful in environmental cleanup.

Supersonic passenger airliners is a bit of a technological dead end. Spaceplanes are probably going to be more trouble than they're worth, and computation techniques makes some aspects of them possible with rockets. Anyone saying Cold Fusion is possible is lying to you. It will likely take decades from the time Virtual Reality is possible in a basic way for it to actually be worthwhile.

Focus investment in nuclear energy into Small Modular Reactors with heavy passive safety systems reliant on physical principles. Relevant designs are Light Water Reactors, High-Temperature Gas-Cooled Reactors, Liquid Metal-Cooled Reactors, Molten Salt Reactors, but you should maybe be hesitant at using Fast Neutron Reactors, and especially hesitant in designing fast breeder reactors.

Renewable energy, invest heavily in investigating Perovskite materials for solar cells, and bifacial solar cells -- get energy from both sides --, and investigate floating solar farms. Wind farms can also be offshore as well. Wave Energy Collectors are profoundly more difficult to make work than the other two, and might not be worth immediate investment. For battery technology, in addition to Lithium-Ion, investigate Lithium-Iron-Phosphate batteries. Investigate options for solid-state batteries, the lowest hanging fruit is probably Sulfide-Based, Polymer, and Lithium Iron Phosphate for the Electrolyte, Interfacial layer, and cathode, respectively.

Agriculture, it's important to adopt sustainable agriculture practices. Some ideas are no-till farming to reduce soil erosion, integrated pest management to prevent pests via biological control and habitat manipulation rather than just chemical pesticides, a greater focus on polyculture and growing multiple crops in the same space, improve use of drip irrigation for managing water scarcity, and researching more soil biology to prioritize soil health is vital in encouraging sustainable farming practices.

Invest in urban green spaces and rooftop gardens, use of distributed, decentralized, renewable energy microgrids, plastic recycling and upcycling, precision agriculture, the use of passive solar design in buildings, like with thermal mass use. It's vitally important to maintain ecological diversity, and you might be neglecting things like, say, wetland area restoration, or land use policies which limit development in sensitive areas. Habitat preservation and wildlife reserves are vital. Promote transit-oriented development and urban density and minimize suburban sprawl. Provide public funding for research into lab-grown cultured meat and plant-based meat alternatives, to limit factory farming of animals.

Aircraft, investigate Hybrid Airships that use a combination of lifting-body design, direct thrust, possibly with hybrid electric/fossil fuel engines, and helium. Computing advancements and Computational Fluid Dynamics and composite material science will make blended wing body designs in traditional heavier-than-air aircraft more feasible, and will help with lifting-body designs for lighter-than-air craft.

Rocketry: focus on reusability and operational efficiency; it's possible to have a first stage booster return to Earth and land vertically to be refueled and flown again. Engines --investigate liquid methane/liquid oxygen designs, designed to support multiple ignition cycles, and the missions that enables. An entire rocket system, designed for both orbital and interplanetary missions, can be reusable. Computer and software advancements, engines that support multiple ignition cycles, and advanced materials for heat shielding are important with this sort of rocket design.

We should focus on getting answers. The way these guys are moving, something big is on the cusp of happening, and we need to find out what if we're going to save... some version of history. Maybe one of the more anomalous details should shed some light.

"What is kushani, anyway? I'm going through my knowledge of languages, and it doesn't seem to share roots with anything. And it certainly didn't exist in my timeline, as far as I know, so how do I know how to speak it despite being stuck on the moon or wherever this whole time?"

>>1087397

The only context for the word 'Kushani' you had before all of this was the word itself as a Hindu girl name.

Silicon 2024/04/07(Sun)07:26 No. 1088157 ID: c3e91a
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You see the value in letting them know about future disasters. That just makes sense. If you can save some lives, there's little reason not to.
The idea of giving them scientific or technological advice makes you nervous, though. This could certainly also be very beneficial, even save more lives, yet. But you should probably consider it very carefully first.

"If it's future disasters, you want, I can probably think of a bunch. There's a couple natural ones, but the really worrying stuff is... artificial disasters.", you offer.
"Do you mean 'man-made'?", Shyama asks.
"Yes, that! Do you know about climate change? Global warming? The uh... the hole in the... fucking... sky? Uh do you put lead in your paints and fuels? Lead is quite toxic. Don't do that.", you answer.
Shyama notes that down. "Uh huh. Noted. Well, I don't know about any sky holes, but I have heard of this warming effect. Alarming hypothesis. You're saying it's true?"
You nod: "Very much so, yes. But there are ways to prevent it from getting out of hand."
Shyama sighs.
"What's the time-scale of these issues?", he asks.

You frown. "The sooner you tackle it, the better. Climate change is no joke!", you say.
"I'm asking because our current crises are quite immediate. If Climate change can wait a couple years, I say we talk about that later, when we have years to work with."

Well that's ominous.

"You're... expecting something worse within only a few years?", you ask.
"Now that's a topic we should definitely talk about", he says, "but it's a heavy one and you've had two blows to the head today already. Let's maybe stick to something less taxing for now, yes?"
You begin to protest: "But-"
He interrupts you: "No buts. Sorry, Disq. I won't risk it right now. Maybe there's something else you're wondering about?"

That's pretty final. Oh well... You think about other topics.
Well there's... one thing.

Silicon 2024/04/07(Sun)07:26 No. 1088158 ID: c3e91a
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"I'd like to clarify something", you say, "and please don't take this the wrong way. I'm pretty sure somebody used male pronouns for you, but you don't really present as male at all."
You can see Vijaya grimacing behind him.
Shyama smiles politely and says, curtly: "It's true, I do go by male pronouns."

There are a few seconds where you expect him to say more, but he doesn't. So you fill the silence with: "O-oh?"
He nods. "Yes.", he says, "How about you?"

You should have seen this coming. You think. How can you not know this immediately? You make a guess.
"Female? I suppose?"
This is so awkward.
Shyama nods and takes a note. "Good. Thank you.", he says.

Then there's more silence. You need another topic.

Silicon 2024/04/07(Sun)07:26 No. 1088159 ID: c3e91a
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Okay, how about culture? You figure that might be interesting.

"What is kushani, anyway?", you ask.
"It's... well. It's the most commonly spoken language on Earth.", he says.

"Where does it come from? What's its history, it's culture?", you ask.
He gives you an incredulous smile. "You really care about that, do you? Well okay, here's the short rundown: Kushani was the language of the Second Empire of Kushana and was spread all over the world by conquerors and Sopanayana missionaries.
"It is an official language in most of the Kushan Empire's various successor states. It has a rich cultural history of literature, poetry and philosophical scripture, just like Sanskrit before it, with which it shares a script: Devanagari.
"Devanagari has been the writing system with the largest corpus of written works in the world since before the invention of the printing press.
Kushani is also notable for its use in foundational scripture for several schools of the world's primary philosophical system: Buddhism including Sopanayana as well as many, many local syncretic faiths."

"Fascinating!", you say, "So is that the religion you follow, then? This... Sopanayana?"
He snorts: "Hardly. No, I am a lay practitioner of Ahenniryena. It's a... more introspective school. A new philosophy for a new age, we like to say."
Vijaya adds: "And free of the caste bullshit."

Shyama shakes his head and chuckles: "You have no context for any of this, so I won't bore you with the specifics of this conflict. It's not really that important."

Shyama seems in a talkative mood. Maybe culture is his weakness? You decide to fire off another of your burning questions while he's in a giving mood.

Silicon 2024/04/07(Sun)07:26 No. 1088160 ID: c3e91a
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"You talked about conquerors and missionaries. How far did that go?", you tap on the Americas on the eastern edge of the map, "The people here didn't fare so well in my timeline. How're they in this one?"

Shyama sighs. "That's a... complex topic, Disq. I don't know how to answer that... Ixachitlan is a diverse continent. The south is home to many Muslim colonial states. The north has three major Buddhist ones. The majority of the continent is a pathwork of nations, sovereign territories and coalitions, mostly adhering to syncretic local faiths. Colonialism casts a long shadow, but Ixachitlan has weathered it better than other places.", he says.

He sounds a bit defensive, you think.

After a few seconds of silence, Vijaya clears her throat and says: "Shyama and I are from Kushanasthana and Maharathisthana respectively. Former heartland of the Kushan Empire. In case you were wondering."

So some places did not weather it well at all, huh? Well, your time was certainly not without its own colonial shadows.

Anyway, if we're going to keep to lighter themes - and considering the fondness of culture - how about discussing what entertainment differences there are?

Television. Movies. Theater. Radio shows. Comics. Games; tabletop roleplaying, miniatures, arcades, computer games, virtual reality.

What all they got? Any favorites?

>Ixachitlan is a diverse continent
Well it sounds like they have a native language name for it, so that's one up over our own colonial history.

Another lighter subject you could pursue; food. Staples from our timeline like coffee, chocolate, corn, or tomatoes might have gone undiscovered in theirs.
Exchange favorite recipes. Although as a robot maybe you don't have any. Hmm, maybe avoid this topic and stick to media discussion.

>>1088160
>caste bullshit
Oh that was a problem in your timeline too, so you have context for that. Tell them about how their culture developed in your timeline, ask if that's similar to their situation.

>colonialism
Oh ask how the Aztecs fared. Ixachitlan is a native american name so it sounds like they were given more respect in this timeline at least. Did the Aztecs get wiped out by disease again?

>>1088227

The violent death of every living soul on the European continent might have been worth it, if it eliminated smallpox.

>>1088160
"Shyama, give it to me straight. The idiots from my timeline ruined and exterminated most of the native populations, replaced them with slaves they harvested from tribes west of Kushan (or rather, south of Rome), and then acted surprised when everything eventually blew up in their faces. Whatever your culture did, I assure you: it's a bad apple in a sea of bad apples."

>>1088234

The ethical way to stop smallpox would've been to give the vaccine to the Roman Empire. Any of these large empires could've been trained in germ theory and how to do vaccination. And there's a whole HOST of ideas which don't require preexisting infrastructure (like, oh, humanism? The whole idea that all human beings have some inherent worth and value to their lives?) which a time traveler who valued saving lives, and making timelines in which more lives are saved, could've given to people. Huge segments of knowledge were earned in blood and knowing about these things without having to spend the blood could've been immense, and caused a huge population boom, and prevented the extinction of whole species, cultures, and peoples.

One idea would be to just give a bunch of advancements and ideas (and a globe, perhaps) to the Persian Empire, or to Cyrus the Great himself when he was getting started. It would be perhaps the first really big empire, and a bit of tweaking could have a HUGE amount of lifesaving advancements and cultural ideas and ways of thinking and morality that would utterly redefine the human race and the direction of humanity.

Uhh moving on from the heavy subjects Shyama how advanced are the technology of you're time?

Like It's obvious that you have some handle of space flight since we're on a ship so is there any space colony set up or did you just stumble across this ship while it's floating in low earth orbit.

Also do you guys have a smart phone?

In my timeline it's basically small hand potable computer that happen to be able to make phone calls. I would love to have some way to contact you guys when you're out of this room and It would prove me with plentiful reading materials when I'm alone.

Also have you found a way to make mechs viable in this timeline.

>>1088287
I'm... pretty sure the goal wasn't to kill smallpox.

Asking more about the culture of this other timeline is a good idea, but we should at sone point consider that Shyama and the others are for sure working under a bigger government or organisation capable of launching a manned mission to the moon. Right now we could be talking to agents of a totalitarian regime although the interactions so far are speaking more to a preventive concern right now. Still, especially in our emotional state we should try to be careful and concentrate more on finding out about their world view and alliegances.

Questions that should reveal some about that:
-Since there was a lot of talk about different religions, does atheism exist in this timeline? Have there been bigger scisms in their leading world religions comparable to ours?
-Does this world have a unified code of human rights? If so, who drafted this up?
-Is there something resembling the United Nations?
-Are there any big wars currently? If yes, is the country they are from involved?

Until now our captors have shown to be mostly compassionate and open-minded, but its importent to make sure who we are working with here. Plus, Shyama seems to be very cautious and might have similar suspicions of us, so an exchange in this direction might clear the air a bit. Maybe compliment him for his calm and restrained reaction to your arm-grabbing and apologize for breaching the topic of representation (which seemed to be obviously loaded and complex, although it would be fascinating to learn more about an alternate timelines view on reprensentation and *maybe?* transsexuality) since for all he knows we COULD still be a crazy killer robot from the most evil of timelines...

Silicon 2024/04/15(Mon)12:03 No. 1088840 ID: 1d6349
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It occurs to you that this group of astronauts is unlikely to be working alone. Space programs require an amount of resources and a workforce that are beyond what anybody but large, wealthy nations or corporations can bring to bear.
It might be prudent to figure out what kind of entity you're dealing with here and what their values are. Probing deeper into the colonialism topic seems like a good place to start.

"How did the uh... the Aztecs fare? Uh the Triple Alliance? Mexica? Tenochtitlan? Does any of this ring a bell?", you venture.

Shyama lightly taps his pen on the table a few times as he answers: "Yes... Tenochtitlan, the Mexica, Tlacopan, the Tlaxcallans and so on. Well, they... They managed, I suppose. Nahuatlan has been in a bit of an economic upswing ever since they finished work on that canal.
"Their culture is relatively intact, though that still means that it's been altered quite significantly. If you want to know just how badly they were treated, I'm really not the right person to-"

You interject: "Shyama, give it to me straight. The idiots from my timeline ruined and exterminated most of the native populations, replaced them with slaves they harvested from ... whatever the continent south of Rome is, and then acted surprised when everything eventually blew up in their faces. Whatever your culture did, I assure you: it's a bad apple in a sea of bad apples."

Silence falls.

Silicon 2024/04/15(Mon)12:03 No. 1088841 ID: 1d6349
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After a couple seconds Shyama finally blinks, takes a couple notes and then responds: "All right, but let's keep this brief. In the 2020s by our calendar, outsiders began to arrive in Ixachitlan. First were Muslim explorers from Alkemmet and Haemia, then Buddhist and Hindu missionaries from Mabharata and Mahacina.
"They brought a number of infectious diseases with them, that the locals were not accustomed to, leading to a string of devastating epidemics. These were further aggravated due to the limited understanding of epidemiology and the steadily increasing influx of settlers from both east and west.
"The then-nascent Empire of Kushana greatly expanded its Ixachitlanan colonies and conquered others laying the foundation for modern colonial states on the west coast of northern Ixachitlan and spreading its religion, culture and language."

"And the caste system.", Vijaya adds.

"Oh speaking of which!", you say.
You can hear Shyama inhale sharply through his nose.

"The people in India as we called it also had a caste system. That's where society is divided into four groups... or was it five? Anyway, they all had different privileges and were allowed to work different professions and were banned from intermingling, right?", you venture.

Shyama seems a bit torn on how to respond to this for a moment. Then he says: "I'm not sure if that's wrong or just very strangely put. The Kushan Empire's castes are largely a self-perpetuating system of privilege, wealth and opportunity. Family names are closely linked to caste and the members of the more privileged castes have a material interest in looking after their own.
"In imperial times it was a given that, for example, the government's offices were stacked with wealthy Kshatriya families who constantly fought each other for power, but also collectively assured that no one without a traditional Kshatriya name would ever make it very far in politics. And of course they cooperated to concentrate as much wealth and power in Kshatriya hands as possible in any way they could.
"The other castes acted in very similar ways, though of course there was a pecking order. And the Dalita would always have to make do with whatever scraps the rest of society would leave them.
"Now, intermarriage was never actually forbidden, but it was effectively unthinkable. Marrying someone of a lower caste would quickly make anyone a pariah to their family. They'd always rather cast someone to the dogs than let anybody climb up to their level. It was in the higher castes' material interest to keep these lines solid while making them look technically crossable."

You think about this. It's certainly not what you expected when you heard the word 'caste', 'varna' in kushani.

"Anyway, we're working hard on eliminating the whole thing. In modern Kushanasthana and many other places, using one's caste name is strongly frowned upon. And please, I don't care how curious you are, do not ask people what their caste is.", he concludes.

"That's so very interesting," you start, "you see in my timeline-"

Here Shyama cuts you off: "Disq. Excuse me. What does this accomplish?"
"Eh?"

Silicon 2024/04/15(Mon)12:04 No. 1088842 ID: 1d6349
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"You keep drawing comparisons between our timeline and yours. You keep asking all these questions about history that have nothing to do with whatever is going on with you, the amnesia and all that. Why do you care so much about our history, when you evidently were here on the moon the whole time?", he asks.

You tilt your head in disbelief: "How could I not be curious about that?"

Shyama shakes his head. He speaks softly: "Curiosity is not a good enough reason to get so hung up on something pointless. You're trying to unravel an impossibly dense web of karmavipaka. You are trying to understand the current state of the whole world as the result of a single karmic act over two millennia ago. That is not sensible, Disq. It's too large a problem to solve."

You're not sure how to respond, so he keeps going.

"This is very much like the unanswerable question of karmaphala," he says, "Here and now there is a real problem to be solved. It's urgent. Time is limited. You need to find back to yourself, Disq. You're like the wounded man, struck by a poisoned arrow who will not allow the wound and poisoning to be treated until he knows the name, family name, profession, exact look of the attacker, make and material of the arrow and so on and so forth. Treat the wound first. Worry about the rest later.
"Let it go for now, hm? You can dig into history all you want when this is all over."

Shyama seems to have mistaken your intent, here. He's not wrong that you'd like to know everything there is to know about this new history, but he seems to have missed that you're digging for background information. That's just as well.

You make a show of reluctantly nodding your head. "Okay. Fine, I'll let it go. Can we talk more about contemporary culture then? The state of the world now?"

Shyama clicks his tongue. "We might have to steer clear of a few things, but otherwise... Sure.", he says.

Silicon 2024/04/15(Mon)12:04 No. 1088843 ID: 1d6349
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You consider what other topic you might start with... You want to ask about a United Nations kind of deal and international human rights, but these things are not quite so simple to explain, so you opt for a simple one first.
Maybe you can bring up the UN again later, when you've figured out a way to describe the concept.

"Are there any big wars, currently?", you ask.
Shyama looks down for moment before responding: "I don't know what a big war is to you. The most devastating war in history ended... about 22 years ago. And since then there have been many lesser ones. I don't think there was ever a time in my life when we weren't at war in some capacity. But let's not go deeper into this topic. It's too close to what I'm trying to avoid for now."

You think for a moment, but you cannot seem to find a kushani word for 'atheism', so you'll have to describe what you mean.

"We talked about religion a lot but so far haven't touched at all on people who don't believe in, well... anything. Belief-less ones?", you try.

Shyama's quirks an eyebrow. "People who don't believe in anything? Uh... You mean people who have no conception of the world?"

You try to clarify: "Ah no. Okay, this a bit difficult. We have this word 'Atheist'. It translates literally as 'godless person', but it really refers to someone who rejects belief in any deities whatsoever."
"Oh. Well, I don't really believe in any deities either.", he says.
"No?"
"No."

"I thought you're a Buddhist. You don't believe in the Buddha?", you ask, incredulous.
"Well, the Buddha was a man and we have written evidence of his existence and his teachings.", he says.
"And now?"
"Now? Now he's gone."

"What, your Buddhism has no devas or bodhisattvas? No, you know what? That's all beside the point. What I mean is... Is there no sort of... worldview out there of a more mechanical cosmos without... a spiritual component? Where only the physical exists and only science can help us understand the nature of it?"

He thinks and then turns to Vijaya. "I think they have something like that over in Alkemmet, right?", he asks.
Vijaya scratches her scalp stubble and says: "Yyyeeaaaahhh, uh... Can't remember the name of that philosophy, though."
Shyama turns back to you. "Another thing to talk to Gamal about, perhaps?"

"Do you have an opinion on the idea?", you try.
"I barely understand what you're getting at," he says, "I'm personally not sold on any division between the physical and the spiritual. To me, there is only one cosmos that matters and we are trapped in it by our misapprehension of its components. There is a system to it and science is useful for understanding and manipulating this grand illusion to various ends.
"We try to keep the gods and the buddhas out of it. I believe that living to secure a place in the heavens in another life tends to lead to... complacency. It is therefore best to consider this realm, this life, this moment as the only true reality and make the best of that.
"But that's not what you mean, is it?"

It sounds like people in this timeline may put less importance on belief in deities in general, and are more focused on how the belief systems affect actions, perhaps? Which would explain why even this explanation of Buddhism sounds more agnostic than religious as we understand it.

But we have gathered some clues: people of Gamal's, Shyama's and Vijaya's countries of origin seem to interact with each other regularly and kindly enough to know and accept each other's philosophies somewhat well. Maybe that's where we can hook into the cooperation of nations?

"So if I understood correctly, the members of this crew come from different countries? Is that because the governments cooperate on space travel or do you just happen to come from a diverse place? Sorry for comparing again, this is just for my own frame of reference, but where I come from we had some cooperative projects between nations that opted into them. Projects like trading laws, travel restrictions, but also protection of people on a large scale. Or the avoidance of cruelty by governments. I'm curious if this is such a project."

Talk around words and form words as compound words or short phrases as needed. IE, agnosticism is 'the word for a belief that the divine and supernatural is unknown or unknowable', and secularism is 'the word for the political principle and political philosophy that religion should be removed from affairs of the state wherever possible'.

There's a number of aspects of human condition that are 'irreligious'. Some are political, some are philosophical, some are intellectual positions, some are parody religions, some are social movements. Things like secularism, atheism, agnosticism, secular humanism, some categories of materialism, naturalism, antireligion movements, antitheism, freethought, and the like. They're characterized by a rejection of dogma, rejection of belief in the supernatural, rejection of the spiritual, rejection of the existence of deities, rejection of belief that miracles ever happen or happened, rejection of any concept of the afterlife or reincarnation or dharma or karma or similar, rejection of religious institutions and religious practices and beliefs, rejection of superstition and non-evidence based practices, rejection of the idea that there is a world or reality beyond what can be directly seen and measured with tools, a focus on concepts like empiricism, rationalism, reason, logic, observation of the natural world, and epistemological beliefs that support all of that. Surely you had some level of the same spread of those sorts of ideas amongst humanity in your timeline?

>>1088850

And by rejection of dharma, that means that their understanding of the 'cosmos' is more about concepts like the those in physics and astronomy, uh physical cosmology: you know, the big bang, special relativity, general relativity, dark matter, the expansion of the universe and galaxies and of space itself, the study of spacetime, quantum physics, string theory, black holes, the movement of galaxies and stars, that sort of thing. And their understanding of 'morality' would be not based on authority that comes from religious institutions or religious types of belief, perhaps instead based on empirically observed ways to get to best group outcomes, like via utilitarianism or by social contract theory or by game theory, or simply moral codes that are not anchored in religious dogma in general.

>>1088843
Atheism rejects spiritualism and the belief in gods or something beyond this existence. Atheists put their trust in the observable and provable. Science is unto it like a Holy book is unto a religion, you suppose.

One also has something like agnosticism, wherein one believes something spiritual or divine or beyond may exist - but that humans do not know it or cannot prove it to be real.

Mankind is good enough at storytelling and has told enough tales over the years, made up enough sects and religions and schisms, that atheists find it entirely plausible it all comes down to lies-to-children and then lies-to-adults, and the answer to our existence is cosmic happenstance and evolution. Which can be wondrous and boggling in its own way.

They should, by now, know about the vastness of space and the Big Bang, yes? Old religions in your timeline tended to push back against scientific understanding - simply countering the belief that the sun was spinning around the earth and not the other way around was controversial.

>>1088843
Tell him that the Atheist label is partially a pushback against excessive focus on religion, which doesn't seem to be much of a problem in their culture? It's historically been a huge one in your world.

Honestly this would be easier if I have some access to you're version of the internet. Or maybe a few recordings of some popular documentary.

Well, we are dealing with time travel. If that couldn't find hard evidence of a god, nothing can.

So it seems like this religion is less an orthodox business and more of a school of philoso-... Ah damn it makes sense that this timelines' kind of philosophy emerged from religious movements, the roman empire was pivotal in spreading greece concepts and works after annexing them! Fuck, that's interesting!

Anyway, Shyama makes a good point and seems to lose his patience for now.
We should kindly ask him about the exact nature of this time sensitive problem.
Up until now we only got glimpses of that and since we are slowly getting our shit sorted out it me be time that he told us what exactly we can help them with.
Is a reactor overheating? Are they stranded on the moon base? Did communication with Houston break down? Based on their reactions so far I think it will be somewhat linked to something they cant parse in a technological manner or linked to writings they don't understand.

Silicon 2024/04/24(Wed)14:22 No. 1089607 ID: 815fee
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"No, I don't think so."
You try to think of a way to explain this in a simple, concise way.
"The people I'm talking about reject dogma, deities and all notions of karm and dharma and what have you. They believe in that which is observable and provable and only that. Their cosmology is based on observable evidence and laws and models that have proven to make accurate predictions. There was a big bang and-"

"Disq, sorry, look..." he interrpts again, "I think we might be talking around each other. I don't think we actually... disagree here? I mean, I find karma to be quite observable and demonstrable: intent leads to action leads to consequence. I don't really understand what rejecting dharma even means and I don't think discussing that further will be fruitful, but perhaps there isn't even a need. Laws and models that allow predictions about the cosmos to be made? Sounds like a description of dharma to me. But the word has many meanings and perhaps that's the source of this misunderstanding..."

"Well surely at least secularism exists? That's the idea that government, administration and the state... the public sphere... should be separated from religious matters.", you explain

"Yes of course. The temple and monastery complexes of the Brahmana constituted one of the empire's strongest pillars, after all. Their power had to be broken and there's still more work to be done."

"That's n-"

"Yes, that's not exactly what you mean, Disq. Is that a surprise? According to you, history diverged over two thousand years ago. I'd be surprised if any of your philosophical frameworks did map neatly onto any of ours. Does it really matter what bird the feathers on the poisoned arrow came from?"

Silicon 2024/04/24(Wed)14:22 No. 1089608 ID: 815fee
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Shyama seems pretty frustrated with this line of conversation, so you decide to move on to something else.

You ask: "So if I understood correctly, the members of this crew come from different countries? Is that because the governments cooperate on space travel or do you just happen to come from a diverse place? Sorry for comparing again, this is just for my own frame of reference, but where I come from we had some cooperative projects between nations that opted into them. Projects like trading laws, travel restrictions, but also protection of people on a large scale. Or the avoidance of cruelty by governments. I'm curious if this is such a project."

"Ah, that's... hmm. That may be a partially apt comparison, though it's a little complicated.", Shyama says. He seems lost in thought for a moment.
"Almost everybody involved in the 13th Dyauspitr mission are from the Coalition of Kushana, a loose alliance of several dozen countries and territories for the purpose of securing and safeguarding the spoils of the caste war. Our space program is a collaboration within the Coalition.
Beyond that there is a larger global movement surrounding the Coalition of Kushana, informally known as the Hiver Uprising. That could be described as a cooperative project to protect people, especially against cruel regimes. Though if anything the Hivers seek to undermine travel restrictions and trade law... well, it really depends on whose law."

That doesn't really sound like the United Nations to you...

"Incidentally, Gamal is not from the Coalition of Kushana. He's from Egypt, which is part of the Dacian Sultanate."

"And that's... also part of the Hiver movement?", you venture.

Shyama smirks. "Ah no... No, Dacia is one of the greatest threats to the whole enterprise. No, Gamal isn't with us because Kushanasthana is a diverse place, exactly - though it is that - but rather because he has proven his loyalty and reliability, which is crucial in any clandestine operation."

You recoil. "Clandestine? You flew to the moon. How the hell would you ever hide that from anybody?"

He steeples his fingers. "Of course we're not hiding the fact that we're exploring the moon. But what we have been able to keep under wraps so far is... well, you. Fortunately, our enemies' space programs lag behind ours and so keeping the existence of this habitat on the far side of the moon a secret was simply a matter of photocompositing. But they're sure to catch up eventually."

THEY FAKED THE MOON LANDING IN THIS TIMELINE! Er... well, uh, they faked A moon landing in this timeline!!

This kinda sounds like a conspiracy of sorts...

But you should probably hook into this from a more sympathetic angle, perhaps? Maybe something like "So you are a rebellion against classist regimes? Is that why you need to keep me a secret? In case I might be dangerous in the hands of someone else if they find me?"

I dunno how we're supposed to have a conversation about the differences between timelines without comparing them, but ok.

Oh, now we know our current location with better precision. Far side of the moon, that's a real good place to hide from a pre-spaceflight civilization. Maybe the important thing you were supposed to do was move to a better spot? Except, if you could do that, why weren't you already somewhere else? Not much reason to stay on the moon.

Anyway I think I get the jist of their situation. They're in a cold war, and they think things are going to escalate, so they're trying to find an advantage. Tell her about the cold war between the USA and USSR, and about how it ended. Not with a world war, believe it or not!

>>1089608
And by the time they figure it out you would like to have a headstart… in what, exactly? What do they need from this facility and me?

Technologies? The secrets to wielding nuclear fire? The answer to life, the universe and everything?

Which is 42, by the way.

Which is a silly literacy reference from the science fiction of your timeline.

Shyama is getting real passive aggressive with this arrow analogy. As an amnesiac, all topics hold equal relevance for now. If He thinks you should be talking about something specific he should just say so and not talk down to you.

>>1089609
They pulled a Billy Bat, and faked the moon landing so they could merge the fake movie with the real moon landing to manipulate the public into limiting their attention of the moon, which in this timeline is mega-@#$%ing important.

Same old insanity from the ruling classes; money is not backed by goods or services, it is once again backed by slaves, the labels rebranded yet again.

>>1089633
He keeps demanding we stop strying into "pointless"topics but keeps dodging the question when we ask what is important.

We know they're here because of some sort of "crisis" and he keeps getting annoyed when we don't focus on addressing topics relevent to this crisis but he also won't bloody well tell us what the crisis is!

>>1089671

Yea, what the fuck is up with this?

>>1089671

Also, we have to apparently be in a particular state of mind to listen to these presumably horrible details, but they also won't tell us what state of mind that is, so we could practice mindfulness meditations or whatever to try and get to that point or spend some time bracing ourselves against whatever the bad news is or perhaps suggest appropriate stimuli or methods to get us to that state of mind!