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File 147920134940.png - (52.59KB , 800x800 , 1.png )
758668 No. 758668 ID: bfb318

>"Likol! Are you trying to destroy your eyes in here or something?"
"Yes. They've been repairing, and my glasses with the thinner lens has a broken frame. You've brought good news?"
>"New spreadsheet software!"
"I just got used to this one."
>"This one will take a tenth of the time to learn. It's UI isn't goddamn nuts. Its mini-windows don't even glitch out and manifest in coordinates outside of the display monitor!"
"That's a plus, I suppose. What would really be nice is if that construction crew outside of the building would finish up."

The hive mentally chimes in to my question, although my hive's thoughts intermingles with my own to the point that they feel like my own thoughts as well.

Don't be so optimistic. The construction never ends.

"What is it for? Are we going to replenish our hive numbers?"
>"I... no. Not yet. They're building a... zoo, or climate hall something. The arkots need more space, too, and they've taken a hit to their health without an appropriate biome."

80% of our home is in disrepair, if not completely abandoned. I miss the old lounge.

>"Yeah, yeah, we were supposed to replace arkots, but that was when Vanski needed manpower, not brains. There's a shift."

Funny how now that technology is ubiquitous, we need more muscle.

Muscle? In the form of Arkots?
There's good muscle mass when it's 40 arkots.

>"Just focus on the new spreadsheet! We're on edge enough without your old guys drinking all that depresso espresso."
"Fine, as long as you never call it that again."
Expand all images
>>
No. 758669 ID: bfb318
File 147920137651.png - (47.57KB , 800x800 , 2.png )
758669

>"... have you not slept?"
"We have to look good."
>"And you look like shit." Not even in uniform. "Come chill with some of us. But not before you shower."
"I'd rather not disturb their work while dodging mine."
>"You think out of a couple hundred hivemates, there's not a single one on break?"
"There shouldn't be."
>"... how far have you gotten untangling the raw ring shell code?"

Low blow, Rihhin.
>>
No. 758670 ID: 398fe1

>>758669
Have you checked the logs for any morse code recently?
>>
No. 758671 ID: b412df

Oh hey Likol, what's that you're looking at there? Also, out of curiosity, what's the date today?
>>
No. 758675 ID: bfb318
File 147920709892.png - (107.82KB , 800x800 , 3.png )
758675

>What's that you're looking at there?
The ring shell data, which is just about the only data that we can see as output. Once every three days I get a couple of error messages to help unravel the whole thing.

It feels like grunt work. We're confident that my mentor, Dr. Arza Fletch, would pay his life savings away to get the information I've gained, because he could make breakthroughs with it and see connections between objects. Objects that I'm not even seeing in the first place, let alone the connections. Compared to him, I'm a code monkey. The unprocessed data is wasted on me.

>Have you checked the logs for any morse code recently?
Morse code... has been taught to the Ring Shell, but trying to get the RS to use the tool is a whole other can of worms. It has never done this before despite decades of effort, despite that some of those AI's that make it to the RS should know morse code and how to use it.

Dr. Fletch has gotten cagey with his CAI tools after giving us the ability to make CAIs on our own. His program is able to take the ring shells native data, which is an impervious mess of tangles, and say how long the cycle took both in virtual time and real time, and how many AIs made it to the end. I wish he would have taught me how to make my own programs, but I wonder if I would have understood it even if he taught me. The man is... eccentric and not socially cunning, but in this field, I feel like I've been taught by a once in a millenium genius.

On the other topic, things added to the RS, like morse code, will stand out easily even while mountains of data are generated around it per second.

It's been a while, but a new cycle just ended on this CAI project. I don't want to start a new one at an odd time, so I kill a few minutes to do a search for morse code. As always and as expected, there is no data that fits a morse code message.

Rihhin broadcasts I should take a break after starting the next one, then leaves.

I go and wait by the supercomputer's terminal.

1:50.

1:55.

1:59... wait for it....

2:00. Nice and even timestamp.

>What's the date today?
On hitting the button, I receive an answer as it logs the start time.

April 16th, AW 131, 2:00:00 PM
CAI generation attempt No. 3,119 has begun.


I've nearly been at this for 30 years.

The date stamp is fed to my desktop, before the individual AI samples begin generating. In an attempt to tell me all the IDs of one trillion entities, the monitor turns into a spastic green glow that does a better job of illuminating the room than telling me anything. It outputs 50 lines 240 times per second as per the monitor refresh rate. And even at that rate, the monitor skips nearly 14 million others that are generated before it can wait for its next frame to display a new 50.

There's no point to watching it, anyway. All the work is done on the side laptop that reads off the supercomputer's data.

Which either amounts to dissecting the ring shell, which I feel like I would have more progress finding out how a neumono brain works by dissecting myself. Or, perusing the extracted data from the previous 4 AI's that got through the stages, and see if any of their data can be linked with the error messages.

Or, I reluctantly admit, a break is an option.
>>
No. 758678 ID: 398fe1

>>758675
So do you know about the glitchy emergent AI in the system brought about by your stabilizing AI interacting with Rihhin's corrupting AI? How many times has that emergent AI reached the ring shell? How many times has your stabilizing AI's failsafe been triggered?

Hey, what sort of backups are there for the AIs? Are there backups for the two custom AIs? Even for the emergent AI?

Take a look at cycle 3118's final 4 AIs. Have you noticed any patterns as to which AIs reach the end most often? At the very least you can judge which AIs seem to have the biggest advantage overall.
>>
No. 758679 ID: 82c876

I'd say have a quick look at the AIs then have a break, ideas might strike when you're not actively thinking about it.

Aside from research is there a purpose for this system, I thought there already was a CAI made? Also, what are archcycles? What modifications / injected programs have been made to the system compared with how it was originally?
>>
No. 758680 ID: 094652

Of course, the test offers survival to the AIs that are skilled enough to jump through the hoops. It doesn't pick up on AIs that are smart enough to hide themselves and troll the other idiots scramble to the finish line.

Connect the processor to a small, well-contained bot. And by well-contained, I mean you literally lock it inside a triple-chained iron box with one tiny hole for the USB port. And maybe some pretty pictures of the surface as a lure. See if you can trap the ghost in the machine. Even if you don't expect anything, what else were you planning to do today?

When was the last time you saw Azra? You're way below his level, but his students aren't. Maybe you could network with the other nutjobs?
>>
No. 758684 ID: db0da2

Assuming the attempt numbers line up accurately with the cycle numbers, which they might not, considering Likol just said 4 AI have already been generated, but we were only ever able to find evidence of one, this is really bad news. This is all happening before Polo has arrived, which means one of three things; Polo shows up within the next 3 days, Alison and friends never make it out, or they do make it out, but the Salikai manages to subjugate them. Even if Polo does show up within the next 3 days, the Salikai still has control of the CAI after the timeskip, which does not bode well for the contestants.

So what are you actually expected to be doing down here, if the output you're getting is so useless? Do you mean 4 CAI, or 4 AI in one CAI?
>>
No. 758685 ID: 3abd97

>>758675
Of the two, I'd say looking at the four AIs might be more fruitful than looking at the ring shell, again.

Your hivemate is right, tho. You should take a break. As much as it galls you, you work better after one.

>April 16th, AW 131, 2:00:00 PM
Four years before The Intermission and/or Polo Quest.
>>
No. 758697 ID: 3d2d5f

Maybe you need some cuddlehive style R&R?

What's the point of this research project, besides trying to understand how CAI's function? Is there something you're trying to accomplish?

>"You think out of a couple hundred hivemates, there's not a single one on break?"
>couple hundred
...Polo and Korli's best estimate of the Science Hive's population in the last Polo Quest thread was somewhere the thirties. They're due to lose a lot of people in a few short years.

Things with Vanski must get a lot worse, and in a hurry, not gradually over decades like I was expecting. They might not even be enslaved yet.

>>
No. 758698 ID: bfb318
File 147921787062.png - (21.35KB , 800x800 , 4.png )
758698

>Do you mean 4 CAI, or 4 AI in one CAI?
4 individual AIs make it out of a single CAI generation process. Three from the standard stage area, and a fourth one from a custom procuder of administration. They don't form a CAI. They just get sent through the ring shell, then rejected and sent back to the beginning with the rest in a new cycle.

The active CAI we have has countless AI, and although it runs on the same platform as what's generating another CAI, they are separated.

>So do you know about the glitchy emergent AI
I know that the AI count has become higher than one trillion. I believe that is from the simulated CAI battles within drawing contestants out. It seems like they're stable, and no different than other contestants once they're integrated in with the others.

>Hey, what sort of backups are there for the AIs?
There's really not any. We have backups of what is used to generate the AIs, including the custom AIs by Rihhin and myself. As for the AIs that have their unique experiences and exist currently, that's stored within the blocks and we have no known way to get them out.

The closest we have is my stabilizer, but that's not a backup, that's just a backup home for the AI's themselves in case the first gets destroyed.

>How many times has your stabilizing AI's failsafe been triggered?
The stabilizer has definitely taken hits before. There's been a few times where its presence with the other contestants is completely eliminated, or contaminated by Rihhin's corruptor.

The native stage area for the AIs has never been contaminated enough for my stabilizer to need to serve as a new home for them. Which is good, I suppose, since I'm not even 100% sure it will work.

>Take a look at cycle 3118's final 4 AIs. Have you noticed any patterns as to which AIs reach the end most often?
Every AI has a persistent ID that perpetuates through each attempt, so yes, we have compiled data on the AIs that tend to repeatedly make it through, and what their values were on their generation for the cycle, along with all of their experiences.

And it's a disaster making sense of it. They all just have one big long string that not just has to be read in a linear form like DNA, but up and down by lining it on top of itself in some kind of loop.

All of the AI sent in has been made by post-empirical algorithms, but it's all turned into unreadable garbage by the RS, as with everything else. I'd call it encryption, but it's the real data itself presented in an obtuse way, not some code that scrambles the data.

Despite that, we do have other programs that can reliably extract parts of those strings, namely the ID, and many statistics about what kind of AI they are, personality wise.

I look at the last 4 who made it through.

ID Numbers...
197484325143
396265711152
580856634466
656114696347

I recognize all of them right off the bat. I know very little about them, otherwise. Although I have variables on what make up their personality, it's very difficult to imagine what kind of people they would act like if they became a CAI. I've tried to map it out using an emulator before, but it's almost certainly an inaccurate representation of them. There's still missing data on them, and randomating those unknown variables changes them drastically.

Plus, I can't become attached.

>Have you noticed any patterns as to which AIs reach the end most often?
Most of them have a tendency to look out for themselves, but being a loner severely diminishes their chances. They look out for others to a degree, and there's a little golden zone of an ideal amount, I've seen. Look out less, and they probably get killed. Look out more and their chances of making it to the end slowly diminish. Or I'd like to say, except that one contestant that's made it near 50 times with such an extreme level of external care. Either get to a point and suddenly the survival rate skyrockets, or it's an anamoly.

All these variables interact in a complex web, so it's likely other factors that play in. Trying to simplify single aspects that lead to survival is a good way to miss the real picture. But that's one I think I've pinned down.

>What are archcycles?
A hard reboot to completely clean out the system and revert everything. Some things, like contestant IDs, perpetuate between cycles. Virtually nothing perpetuates between archcycles.

>Connect the processor to a small, well-contained bot.
It would be interesting to see if having a side box would interact with the CAI generation process, but aside from messing with the experiment, I don't have means to procure such an advanced object that would be able to interact with the CAI like that.

I start a few procedures to at least simplify cycle 3118's final ring shell output so I have a chance of reading it, and decide I'll take a break.

>What's the point of this research project, besides trying to understand how CAI's function? Is there something you're trying to accomplish?
By understanding how a CAI is made, and being able to adjust it, we'd be able to create CAIs that are better suited to certain tasks, and even modify the AI itself.

In Vanski's case, I suppose he would want a CAI that is obedient and loyal to himself.

Aside from that, if we were able to translate how the Ring Shell works to something we understand, we would be able to create new CAI blocks, and perhaps learn about the tech of ancient belenos... Vanski's power and clout would go through the roof and, I would hope, so would our hive's. I miss having a big hive.
>>
No. 758700 ID: bfb318
File 147921788806.png - (38.77KB , 800x800 , 5.png )
758700

>When was the last time you saw Arza?
It was... november of 109. That was the last personal meeting. We've spoken since, but it's been through tense, sterilized messages through various channels. Even when he gives us new software, it's because Vanski cut another deal with him. Dr. Fletch wants data I've mined, but if he got it... he would realize what we've done to get it, and denounce any business with us. We can't do that forever, but the years are just going by faster and faster. One of us is going to die first, possibly before the secret is out.

>I thought there already was a CAI made?
There is, and it's active at all times. Which is why our quantum supercomputer, and my workplace, is an extremely secured compartment in the complex. When I enter, I must shower, out of fear that the CAI could brush me with nanomachines and get into my desktop or some other insane plan. They cannot be allowed to mine their own data.

>What else were you planning to do today?
Anything but take a break.

But that's what I'm doing.

I guess I needed to pick up supplies anyway for my work compartment's kitchen. It's been a week since I've left it, and it's the fact that my hive is in empathic range that I don't go crazy staying that long in there.

Thankfully, leaving is a much less arduous procedure than entering.

>Maybe you could network with his students?
I'd love to try, but he doesn't take many on as their students. At most he'll give people the tools to learn on themselves, but private tutilage is rare. Plus, it might be seen as undermining Dr. Fletch himself, and the ramifications would be bad.

There is one student I heard about. A child, really, that he took an interest in. I know nothing about her, but she's not in the crime ring, and is essentially off limits. Perhaps someday I'll meet her and see if perhaps she can teach me a thing or two, since she'll probably learn a lot more than I am just... grunt working.

I go into the main kitchen to get some food that isn't instant. Moving around I get a better idea of my hive's mood. Things are content, or at least what we've come to consider acceptable, but there is still stress. There are looming deadlines for progress in various fields, and a bad few decades have hindered the overall happiness we've had in the past. The medical department, especially, is in a bad spot, and lowers the overall mood.

Ohhh myyyy god!
It's Likol!
How many months has it been?!

Markie, an aspiring geologist. One of the few that doesn't wear her goggles all the time.
Korli, a generalist that hasn't finished general education. Possible interest in biology.
Reon is the same as Korli, and has taken an interest in my field. I hope he can pick up the torch before my cynical mindset steers him away.

All bubbly, recent generations.

"Hello."

They all say hello back in unison and start getting me food. There's still a respect for elders in this hive, despite all things. It's completely unnecessary. Surrounding hivemates don't come to join, but are pleased I've taken a break. As soon as I get this far, I have to abandon any wishes to cut the break short and go back, unless I mar the present mood.

The three hivemates sit across from me, expecting small talk, but not wanting to initiate it.
>>
No. 758705 ID: 211d83

Ask them how there projects are going. Unwinding will help you relax your mind.

Plus maybe something one of them is working on will help inspire you.
>>
No. 758707 ID: 3d2d5f

>ID numbers
Geeze the system person doesn't even have a tag or prefix to distinguish them. That makes sorting the data harder (although for all we know those are all system IDs. The contestant slots could have been taken by system people who deserted).

>>758700
Awww. They look up to you. That's cute.

Indulge your younger hivemates with some attention. They'll enjoy it, and it'll be good for you emotionally.

Ask them about their work, lives, schooling, what they're up to? People like it when people take an interest in them, especially people they look up to.

(How backed up are you after months hiding away in a room? Maybe you should indulge in "getting attention" from one of the bubbly energetic younger generation, too. At least one of them would probably jump at it).
>>
No. 758708 ID: 850f11

Spend some time with your family. Focusing to much on work will make it harder for you to come up with any great ideas.

So go talk about there work and sleep around a bit and take a few hours or a day off.

How much programming knowledge do you have? You said Arza never taught you how to make programs but you obviously have made your own stuff over the years to peer at this data.

Your next project should be a program to lock on to anything using morse code and identify it so you can transfer that specific Ai out onto a test partion.

With the rate the sim moves if you are not ready for a communication breakthrough the ai doing it could get destroyed as part of the culling process they go through before you could grab it.

Once you had a Ai that had figured out how to talk to the Ring shell you could communicate to it and learn whats going on in there. And maybe have it help you translate the data.
>>
No. 758709 ID: 1807a4

Find out how each of there projects/schooling is going.

Then go relax and have some fun and go get laid.

Will help you focus on work later.
>>
No. 758716 ID: 285fca

Ask them for the hive gossip. Keep up on what's going on with everyone else, is anyone having any personal problems? Any special relationships formed between anyone lately? And personal triumphs?

While you're out here, maybe you should check in on the CAI, as well. AIs though they are, they have wants and desires and affections. If they have any little harmless requests, you could try help them. Making a little personal connection costs very little and could have good benefits.

Speaking of benefit, I'm sure a cynical survivor such as yourself has always felt secure having little emergency caches, countermeasures and alarms scattered around near where you live and work, as a matter of those habits that led to you being a survivor. While you're out for once, perhaps you should check in on some you've set up. I'm sure you've shared them with other members of your hive, but it doesn't hurt.

And perhaps you should check in with the medical department before you go back to work, if they're unhappy. Perhaps they'll benefit from a little wisdom.
>>
No. 758726 ID: fa4709

You should ask them how things are going. Keeping yourself holed up isnt good for you, empathy or not. Neumono are highly social creatures, you'll feel better if you relax for a couple minutes.
>>
No. 758764 ID: 398fe1

>>758698
>There's been a few times where its presence with the other contestants is completely eliminated
Have you noticed anything strange happen during those cycles? Or the cycle afterwards?
>or contaminated by Rihhin's corruptor
Have you noticed anything strange happen during that cycle or the cycle afterwards?
>ID numbers
Wait, those don't go past a trillion. Assuming it starts at 0, that number of digits gives exactly one trillion combinations. What ID numbers are used for the extra AIs? Does it just slap another digit on there? If so, which AI is 1000000000000? I suppose that would either be the corruptor or the stabilizer... What about 1000000000002? The first AI to (presumably) escape a simulated CAI battle?
(damn, it occurs to me that we probably can't determine what the first Glitcher's ID is. At best he showed up on cycle 2, but contestants could have escaped a CAI Fight simulation on cycle 1. Did Glitcher and Rulekeep check out cycle 1 and 2 to confirm if there were any escapees or who the first Glitcher was? It's also possible he doesn't have an ID...)

Have there been any cycles where less than 4 AIs were recorded having made it past RS?
>>
No. 758800 ID: 3abd97

>>758764
I'd presume the AIs from CAI battles have different number formats? Or if we assume those are all systems IDs (say, Sevener and two allies deserted and won contestant side, and the last number if for the last admin) like >>758707 suggested, then it works (since there were always less system-side participants than contestant side).

...or maybe there are headers or leading zeros stripped by the interface. (Or maybe it's in hexadecimal and we managed to by pure luck get 4 entries without any letter digits).

We already know the contest supports multiple simultaneous instances of people with the identical IDs, but somehow distinguishes them, too. That means there's cycle and/or instance identifiers stripped out too.
>>
No. 758803 ID: 90f3c0

If Reon does enter your field, would you be responsible for teaching him? I imagine with such a low population, something like an apprenticeship would be necessary for more specialized education.

Tell him you hope that seeing you become so absorbed in your work that your hive is shocked just to see you getting lunch doesn't put him off the job.
>>
No. 758810 ID: 398fe1

...oh! Have there been any IDs which have showed up past the RS only once? Or have had seemingly corrupted data? You said you could see the AI data and partially emulate it. Were there any AIs that didn't emulate correctly?

Also, the CAI doesn't have access to the block's data, but do they know of its existence? I mean how is the salikai keeping the CAI under control?
>>
No. 758826 ID: bfb318
File 147925230404.png - (11.07KB , 800x800 , 6.png )
758826

>If Reon does enter your field, would you be responsible for teaching him?
Yes, although I hope, then, that Dr. Fletch would start making visits to him.

>How much programming knowledge do you have? You said Arza never taught you how to make programs
I think I'm a decent programmer. I have made software in the past for personal use. What Dr. Fletch didn't show me is how to code for this, which requires a deeper knowledge of the RS than I have. To code for it would still be possible for me, but it would take me far too long to do on my own, nevermind the bug testing to make sure my output isn't misleading me.

>Program to lock on to anything using morse code
We have that. Anything that's been added to the RS post-empire is much easier to isolate.

>So you can transfer that specific Ai out onto a test partion.
That's trickier. AI in the ring shell is spread out, and it's amazing that it works at all.

>If you are not ready for a communication breakthrough the ai doing it could get destroyed as part of the culling process they go through before you could grab it
The RS doesn't destroy any of the AIs. Either the AI remains intact, or it's already part of the ring shell and all over the place. Either way, we keep records of the ring shell output at all times, even if we can't do much with it.

Did I... yes. I habitually put on my watch. This will send me an alert if the RS is detected doing anything out of the norm, like morse code, or some catastrophic error occurs. Of course, with our paranoia of the CAI trying to study itself, it's not a direct wireless connection, it's more like my lab will generate a specific alarm noise, and a node outside of it will activate and then send a ping to my watch.

There's scheduled diagnostics on it to make sure it's working, which must be done, as it has never activated a single time. I still put it on whenever I leave, anyways, as to not do so would be to give up on the idea anything will ever happen.

The CAI working on my data would go so much faster. Knowing that makes me feel I'm wasting my life here. I don't know why this hasn't been done by another faction that owns a CAI, even by accident. Dr. Fletch just told me 'they can't' and didn't elaborate other than a hint that the belenos empire would never allow something like a CAI have the ability to self replicate.

>Talk with the CAI
It's awkward. I'm essentially the caretaker of their usurper, or disease.

>What ID numbers are used for the extra AIs?
Numbers over a trillion.

There's just no leading zeroes in the numbers.

>What was the first AI to (presumably) escape a simulated CAI battle?
I don't even know for sure. It's tough to find such a specific fact like that, and I don't believe that's significant.

>Have there been any cycles where less than 4 AIs were recorded having made it past RS?
No AI has ever made it past the RS itself, but there's always 4 AIs that at least make it to the RS before going back.

Even if there aren't 4 AIs that make it to the end of the stages, then the RS will simply choose the 4 that got closest.

None of them have been corrupted. The RS would bar any corrupted AIs, I believe.

>Were there any AIs that didn't emulate correctly?
Although they are almost certainly inaccurate, they were always at least functional.

>Also, the CAI doesn't have access to the block's data, but do they know of its existence? I mean how is the salikai keeping the CAI under control?
It's unlikely that the CAI doesn't know the basic structure of CAI blocks. They also know that we're running tests on their own blocks, and that if we don't manually fail an attempt cycle, the 4 AIs will make it past the RS and override them. They don't have control over it, so if we all suddenly disappeared, the CAI would not last long.

Aside from that, wires from the quantum computer go down to Vanski's own room where the CAI blocks themselves have been inserted. If he wanted to, he can simply unplug the CAI. I'm sure he has other failsafes, as well.

In other words, if the CAI misbehaves at all, we can simply wipe the blocks clean of them, and regenerate a new CAI on the emptied blocks within a few days. The CAI blocks are not replacable, but the CAI is.
>>
No. 758827 ID: bfb318
File 147925231661.png - (16.75KB , 800x800 , 7.png )
758827

>You should check in with the medical department, give some wisdom
I doubt I could give them anything. They've already missed their deadline.

"How are your projects going?" And why are you not working on them?

>"I'm leaving some fluid on rocks to see how well they melt down, and if the fluid seeps through the rock if it's contained to the outside. If things go well, we can reshape the caverns without using pickaxes and other impact-heavy tools." Markie says. "I'm waiting on that, so I'm here to rest my head."
>"I'm waiting for my computer to process some propulsion simulations." says Reon. I could be doing other stuff, but... "I've been told to focus on that project and not anything else! But since I'm waiting on that stuff, I don't have anything to do."

Sometimes I feel that way too, but with autonomy, I can choose to do other things to busy myself. I make sure he understands my sentiments that me rarely leaving my room is my own choice, and I'm not forced to stay in there for days at a time.

Korli dreads her turn.

>"My head is just full."
"Stretch it out."
>"Yessir."

....

>"In a bit sir."

...

>"I really need the rest please!"
"Fine. Any personal problems?"
None here that really compare to the others.


>Sleep around
>How backed up are you?
>Get laid
I'm fine.
You can be more than fine!

The three here are giving off various thoughts, and are culling their thoughts about me needing a shower.
>>
No. 758828 ID: bfb318
File 147925232814.png - (65.02KB , 800x800 , 8.png )
758828

Once they fail not thinking about it, my will is easily superceded by my hive's will. I end in the showers, and we end up taking care of each other's physiology. I ask one member to send a request to Momu to watch the workroom somewhere along the way.

...how long has that surveillance camera been in this shower?
About one week. There are not many blind spots left out of your lab.
What of trust?

An awkward silence when I wonder that.

We realize just how tired I am, but I'm more stubborn about going to bed at 3 PM. I'm unsure what else to do other than either go back to my station, or keep catching up with more details of the outside world and my hive.

They're sensing that I'm not just tired in a sleepy sense, but in a work sense. We've been working more and more, and getting less and less for it. We used to make things, start to finish. Now it seems like we're more of a glorified outsource lab.

The hive reminds me that we don't have the tools or infrastructure to make many products, so we have to sell our research to see products come of it. Vanski doesn't seem to appreciate us so much, now. Much of our work sucks our funding with no real gains. Like my own, thus far.
>>
No. 758830 ID: e6e9af

>>758700

Time to make up a wild story about how not leaving the workroom is entirely critical to ensuring that the emergent AI and the CAI do not learn of the outside world and as a result turn into some kind of vengeful super intelligent ultra-bot that tries to become real by killing everyone...

... no, wait, that would make things worse.

Ask them about their ... hobbies! Surely Korli has some interests of interest.
>>
No. 758832 ID: 6d3d3d

Begin discussion about how your black-box work has been bottlenecked due to the lack of sedimentary output during the selection process and how a tiny but of explanation on how the game works could cause your research to rocket forward. You have vibrations in the code but there's no interpretation for them, and they're likely marred by sufficient interference. Any brainstorming at this point could advance your work.
>>
No. 758836 ID: 398fe1

>>758826
>the 4 AIs will make it past the RS and override them.
I thought you said a CAI is made of countless AIs? How do 4 AIs make a CAI?

>>758828
Any room for independent projects?
>>
No. 758838 ID: 595d54

Pat Korli on the head.
>>
No. 758839 ID: 3abd97

>>758827
Poor Korli just wanted the chance to goof off and maybe do a little hero worship and she's getting asked serious questions.

Also come on Likol, you made that socializing more a serious performance review! You gotta lighten it up a little, take it easy on the kids. Tone down the intensity.

>We realize just how tired I am, but I'm more stubborn about going to bed at 3 PM. I'm unsure what else to do other than either go back to my station, or keep catching up with more details of the outside world and my hive.
I personally your for spending time with your hive. You're exhausted, physically and emotionally, and the distraction will help. You could be having more fun (hint hint), and afterwards you'll be better able to deal with your problems from fresh angles (both your research, and how to improve your fraying relationship with Vanski / come up with useful applications for him).

>>758828
Korli seems like she's enjoying herself, at least.

>so we have to sell our research to see products come of it.
To who? Doesn't most the outside world not know your hive exists? Doesn't Vanski not want to share your advances with the outside world?

>Vanski doesn't seem to appreciate us so much, now.
Maybe you need to think of something new he will. Or some way to combine something people are already using into something he'll appreciate.

Application is different from pure research, after all. Maybe it's worth reviewing what we have on the fire, later, when you're rested.
>>
No. 758840 ID: 898ae2

>>758838
Yes, do.
>>
No. 758841 ID: 211d83

Any idea how things got like this? Is the Salikai paranoia warranted due to something that happened?

Or is external events just making them more worried about discovery?

Either way spend some time just relaxing with your hive and maybe seeing some of the other experiments going on right now. Might help you unwind a bit.
>>
No. 758842 ID: 285fca

>Vanski doesn't seem to appreciate us so much, now.

You should take steps to make sure his appreciation isn't what you're relying on. Quietly. I'm sure you have already, being smart, but if there are things like cameras going up all over, then it'll be hard to set up any more, and not as hard as it's going to get.
>>
No. 758853 ID: b412df

Have you tried injecting data into the system and see if there's any measurable response over a number of cycles? If I remember right Dr Fletch put his image into one the CAI battles, and there was something about a bunch of photographs or other data?

Also, regarding the missing data on the AIs you get from the ring shell, have you tried to emulate them without filling those sections in? Knowing how weird old empire tech can be that could be intentional.
>>
No. 758858 ID: e22b1d

Hmm it seems like you might have been stuck in your lab for to long. I think you had better spend a few hours finding out why things have gotten so bad that there are cameras in the showers now.

As for the Cai just make sure that you have stuff in place to safely quarantine and talk to any Ai's that might start using morse code. The likelihood of it happening soon is small but as long as your systems are in place you can let your watch alert you.

That being said get a secondary notification set up other than the watch. Something secret. If you don't trust the Cai with its own stuff then that watch is a weak point. You take it out into Cai controlled area's and what if they can block your signal? Maybe they don't want you to find out if a breakthrough happens because it would mean they were even more replaceable.
>>
No. 758866 ID: db0da2

What was the corrupting AI for in the first place?

>>758838
>>758840
DO NOT Korli is a BAD GIRL with no work ethic, she doesn't deserve head pats.

>I'm more stubborn about going to bed at 3 PM.
Why? Is it not healthier to sleep when you're tired and wake when you're rested?

Vanski doesn't trust you anymore, this implies that you can't trust him. Do you have plans for his sudden but inevitable betrayal? Perhaps you can give yourself the option to allow the CAI to study itself?
>>
No. 758868 ID: 595d54

>>758866
1. You are objectively wrong
2. Being more repressive won't improve anything, any possible bad-girl syndrome is entirely because of unreasonably strict upbringing.
3. Korli deserves all head pats.
>>
No. 758870 ID: b2db3f

Likol you suck at small talk. When we said ask them about there project we meant to see what they were excited about and offer input and encouragement. Actually learn something about them.

Not grill them one by one about what they are working on and why its not finished yet.

Get the grump out of your system and be nicer to the young up and coming science generation. Enjoy your time in the shower with some cute girls for god's sake.
>>
No. 758874 ID: bfb318
File 147925886780.png - (14.16KB , 800x800 , 9.png )
758874

>I thought you said a CAI is made of countless AIs? How do 4 AIs make a CAI?
Our active CAI, and all other CAIs I've heard about, comprise of countless. But we can tweak the settings and make a CAI with only 4. It's just not as valuable, and the only reason we do it is to better isolate cause and effects. If we were to make a CAI out of these cycles, we would use the standard procedure with no hard limit on AIs.

>What if the cai can block your watch signal?
The watch is on a CAI sensor network, meaning that while it's not capable of stopping a CAI from interfering, there's no way a CAI can tamper with the network without revealing that it's entering the network.

A secondary system is in place. While more rudimentary, the alarm noise that will happen if a special event occurs will be heard by nearby neumono, and news will reach me, if just a bit slower than the watch would.

>Perhaps you can give yourself the option to allow the CAI to study itself?
I do not trust the CAI with this power.

>Do you have plans for his sudden but inevitable betrayal?
There were some plans, but somehow, Vanski and his children seemed to neutralize any security we put in place.

>What was the corrupting AI for in the first place?
Normally while making a CAI, no error messages occur, but with custom AI that Rihhin made jostles the attempt in ways that generate one. That's its purpose, so that I have something to cross reference.

>Tone down the intensity
Although the hive got me to do something like pat Korli on the head, things are intense. Our young tend to be eager yet unfocused. I was the same way, even if the times were different.

>You could be having more fun (hint hint)
I just did. Even if the point of the shower was to get clean, even I would not think I would do so in the presence of girls without additional activities occurring.

>To who [do you sell your research to]? Doesn't most the outside world not know your hive exists?
Vanski takes care of our outside contact. I expect that he sells them to crime organizations as he will, and as far as our existence goes, he likely just explains that he has a hive and nothing more.

>Any idea how things got like this? Is the Salikai paranoia warranted due to something that happened?
I'd be oversimplifying matters if I thought it was a single event, but Vanski's wife or... significant other, died to a disease recently. He tasked our medical team with a cure. Asking for a cure on short notice for such a complex disease was unrealistic, and although he knows this from a factual point, the medical team's failure to make miracles happen has not sat well with Vanski.

On paper, Stirra, his SO, was simply a business partner that included reproduction. Upon her death, though, he changed in ways that do not reflect a simple lost of cold business.

We're too important to him to just throw us out, appreciation or not. I know that our research isn't sold cheap, and he may just feel like we have too many dead ends. He may simply... no, not downsize us, but have us gradually merge to a few fields where we've had more success. Such as armor and weaponry fields, along with our growing biology field.

>Any room for independent projects?
Not really, but we may want to make room.

>Pat Korli on the head
As soon as I think this, she bows her head.

It was only a thought, not an intention or a consideration.

Nonetheless, it's carried beyond a thought, and despite personal disinterest in doing so, I end up patting her on the head. I would rather not encourage slacking even if it has to be done sometimes, but I suppose I am at the other extreme and shouldn't judge.

Hm? The queen is approaching.
>>
No. 758876 ID: bfb318
File 147925897906.png - (18.91KB , 800x800 , 10.png )
758876

I dry off, and am still not dressed before Quokko arrives.

>"Likol."
"Quokko."
>"What are you doing?"
"Taking a break."
>"You suck at it."
"I know. I'll get back to my research."
>"Like hell you will. The only thing you're going to be researching today is how to lighten up. You're bumming down the hive."
"Things aren't great."
>"Remember when there were 15 of us and we were all eating our own damn fingers because we got chased out of our home for the 10th time that year? Things sound pretty glorious to me. Yeah, we're not at our peak, but just because things aren't the best they've ever been doesn't mean we're doing bad.
"Not if we look at it like that, but we're on a decline from the peak."
>"And you're spiraling down faster when you're sleep deprived. You're disallowed from thinking about it until you get some sleep."
"It's 3 PM."
>"Does it sound like that matters? Do you even need a schedule?"
"Almost everyone else sleeps at night. It gets lonely in the lab then."
>"Then sleep for 15 hours."

That is not something I can accept, but my hive is accepting it for me.

>"Get in my bed, Likol."

The other hivemates mentally turn to dirty thoughts, and Quokko rolls her eyes.
>>
No. 758877 ID: 595d54

>>758875
Well, get in bed. Enjoy a nice dream.
>>
No. 758880 ID: 211d83

Leer at her and wink before sauntering off to her bed.

Then ask if she is coming if she does not follow along.

Got to tease her a bit if she is ordering us around.
>>
No. 758882 ID: 595d54

>>758880
Likol doesn't seem the type to have fun, but I'll still support this anyway.
>>
No. 758884 ID: 3abd97

>I would rather not encourage slacking even if it has to be done sometimes,
She's not slacking, she's reminding the so called older and wiser generation to remember to take care of themselves, and relax with their hive. You're all a bunch of workaholics, you need some Korlis to balance you out with a little recreational slacking. Emotional health is important!

Heck, you really need effective management, but the people with all the authority use it to lock themselves away with their projects instead of spending time managing and looking out for the hive. ...and while maybe what your hive needs is outside help to do that for you, you can't really trust Vanski to do it, can you?

>"It's 3 PM."
You're underground. Time doesn't matter.

Also, don't pretend you follow a normal schedule when you're working at your computer. If you can stay up all night and day when it's convenient to work, you can sleep at 3 when it's convenient, you hypocrite.

>The other hivemates mentally turn to dirty thoughts, and Quokko rolls her eyes.
You heard em. Queen's orders. To the cuddle pile!
>>
No. 758887 ID: db0da2

Do it. She's the queen. You aren't that independent yet, are you? You can at least do this much. Besides, she's right, you need more rest.

This does not bode well, the hive is in decline and the queen is unwilling to do anything about it. That's a familiar story. Don't sleep for 15 hours, wake up while your hivemates sleep and do something before it's too late. It's only a matter of time until Vanski starts surveilling you too.
>>
No. 758891 ID: ccbcd2

You heard the queen. Worst case scenario you get the sleep you need.
>>
No. 758901 ID: 91ee5f

>>758876
>The other hivemates mentally turn to dirty thoughts, and Quokko rolls her eyes.
Tell her that she started it and has no one else to blame but herself for everyone thinking dirty thoughts.
>>
No. 758904 ID: 6d3d3d

If she REALLY wants to get knocked up that badly, who are you to argue? Doesn't get much better than paid vacations where your hawt boss compensates you with constant @#$%ing while she's in heat.
>>
No. 758907 ID: bfb318
File 147926318441.png - (14.99KB , 800x800 , 11.png )
758907

>Queen is unwilling to do anything about a decline
I don't believe she is unwilling. She just thinks that I get cranky about it while sleeping, and wants me to only think about heavy topics like that while well rested.

>Don't pretend you follow a normal schedule when you're working at your computer.
I'm not, but if I'm to fix it, I should do it right and not sleep at 3 PM.

Nonetheless, the argument is over, and it's me vs. everyone.

>Leer at her
>>
No. 758908 ID: bfb318
File 147926319620.png - (14.70KB , 800x800 , 12.png )
758908

>Wink

"Fine."

People think I stink at leering and winking, too. It's also true, even if I'm attracted to just about every girl in the hive.
>>
No. 758910 ID: bfb318
File 147926327176.png - (14.44KB , 800x800 , 13.png )
758910

I get in bed. Quokko follows. Like a shower, it's always unlikely to, in normal circumstances, enter a bed with a girl without intercourse occuring at some point. She doesn't let me set an alarm, especially since it would go off in the middle of the night. Nonetheless, Quokko eventually leaves me to sleep.

>Do something before it's too late.
It's more the principle of the matter that I don't want to sleep for 15 hours. Vanski's gradual power struggle with us was done over the course of years. If it becomes too late, it's because we didn't remain vigilant, not because I overslept for a few hours.
>>
No. 758911 ID: bfb318
File 147926328689.png - (13.91KB , 800x800 , 14.png )
758911

I wake up at 2 in the morning. I dreamed a little, but nothing worth note. Quokko isn't here, although there's more people in bed instead.
>>
No. 758912 ID: 285fca

Tell her that over-sleep is detrimental as well. However, a change is as good as a rest. You simply need to engage in mental activity of a different type than you normally would, and that will be both useful and restful, and help you be tired enough to sleep well, when you go to sleep at a time that your body is used to going to sleep. Overall, it will be even better than just going to sleep now.

As for what those activities should be... how about you escort your Queen around, and help her with her duties? The hive respects you as well, a double dose of authority from Queen and elder will help move things along.

You should consider trying to make contact with Vanski's contacts, in some manner. Make your hive some connections beyond just him; someone who will notice if something happens to you. You could sell it to Vanski as, for example, trying to pursue more lucrative research, by talking directly to clients about what they would like. And/or, he surely doesn't want to do all the talking and handshaking himself; salikai are a reclusive species, neumono social, so a few assistants in business relations could be useful to him.
>>
No. 758913 ID: c441c1

go back to sleep until its time to wake up then you have a schedule to keep then keep it.
>>
No. 758914 ID: 211d83

Could you sleep in or are you stuck up now?

Either lay around for a few hours or check your watch and try to get up without bothering the pile to much.

Then get breakfast and decide what to do for the day.
>>
No. 758915 ID: 285fca

>>758912

Argh, update while I was typing my suggestion. Forget everything in that post but the last bit about contacts.

Carefully squirm out of bed and see where your Queen went. I take it this isn't her own normal schedule?
>>
No. 758917 ID: 3abd97

>>758908
Likol: terrible at being a pervert, but his hive encourages him to be one anyways.

>>758910
Quokko: master of the lost secret art the ear-cuddle technique. She is quite literally hugging him with her ear.

>>758911
Well, you can either stay in the cuddle pile for another 4 hours to get back on a normal sleep cycle, or you can sneak out of bed early to get back to work.

...or just peek at your watch, see if there were any alerts.
>>
No. 758922 ID: 398fe1

>>758911
You're not supposed to get out of bed until 6.

Relax for a bit.
>>
No. 758927 ID: 91ee5f

>>758908
>even if I'm attracted to just about every girl in the hive.
Jeez, what the fuck are you waiting for? Have a fucking orgy with the entire hive already!

>>758911
I'm pretty sure you can't get out of there without waking someone up and they won't like being woken up or you being awake, so I think your only option is to go back to sleep.
>>
No. 758929 ID: 398fe1

...did your watch go off?
>>
No. 758938 ID: 2169b1

As fun as it is, surely you have better things to do than getting laid. You're all rested up, time to start making some plans!
>>
No. 758940 ID: bfb318
File 147927045932.png - (18.59KB , 800x800 , 15.png )
758940

>Jeez, what the fuck are you waiting for? Have a fucking orgy with the entire hive already!
I'm waiting for an appropriate mood.

This bed is communal. No one should be sleeping on it if they get woken up by a hivemate getting in or out of the bed.

>Check watch
The notification counter remains at zero.

I'm unable to get back to sleep. I'm too hungry and restless. Instead, I fetch a fitting shirt in the closet and go get some breakfast. As soon as I enter the kitchen hall, my presence is sensed, and whoever is cooking puts on some additional food in response.

I'm groggy, and the few people who are still up are exhausted. The mood isn't a bad one, even calm, but we're not in the mood for chit chat.

Once again, our forks remind me that 4 prongs work better than 3 for a great number of tasks.
>>
No. 758941 ID: bfb318
File 147927046853.png - (23.75KB , 800x800 , 16.png )
758941

Even if I don't sleep, it would be rude to the queen's sentiment to go back to work at the earliest chance. I take a brief walk in the cooler cavernous air.

Quokko is overlooking a small cliffside where we keep a small lot of livestock and plants.

"You don't have much of a daily rhythm, either."
>"You spoke sleepy drivel the other day, with the exception of one thing. We're in decline."
"I hope you're not giving up doing anything about it."

Of course not. We will surmount this, as we've surmounted the past. Not because of some idea that problems have a way of working themselves out on their own, but because we're problem solvers.

If you have ideas, now's the time to share them. But let the queen do the legwork. A salikai will get suspicious if the CAI supervisor starts dealing with the management job.
>>
No. 758943 ID: 285fca

Alright, I'll repeat what I said earlier.

>You should consider trying to make contact with Vanski's contacts, in some manner. Make your hive some connections beyond just him; someone who will notice if something happens to you. You could sell it to Vanski as, for example, trying to pursue more lucrative research, by talking directly to clients about what they would like. And/or, he surely doesn't want to do all the talking and handshaking himself; salikai are a reclusive species, neumono social, so a few assistants in business relations could be useful to him.

You yourself already demonstrated decent ability to interact with non-hive neumono, didn't you? Quite a long time ago now, but it's a skill. Your hive aren't really the types to get hostile, you're scientists and you have an emotional investment in the idea of being reasonable. And you managed friendly relations and a long-term relationship with a salikai, which given the history of your races must have been harder than interacting with aliens would be, and you have interacted with aliens a little.

It's not science, I know, so it wouldn't be as enjoyable for you, but someone who has an solid grounding in science, and a knowledge of what your group is capable of, would be important to have involved in business dealings of the type Vanski seems to engage in. Vanski surely has his own projects, and enough trouble managing all the construction and his various underlings, and is probably not in the mood to socialize after his wife's death, in addition to salikai generally being not very social.

Aside that, hive members acting as liasons to your clients could better comminicate to the rest of the hive what it is those clients want most, helping you focus your research and produce value more efficiently.
>>
No. 758944 ID: 211d83

Well here are the obvious points to start with:

1: Prove ourselves to Vanski so that he realizes that even with our failure he could have never made it this far without us and we still need each other. Help with more than just the science so he can not stuff you all in a lab and forget about you. If you are up to your neck in all the systems in the base he will need you for more than just science.

1b: Don't design stuff that will let the Cai replace or take over anything you and only you can do. If Vanski feels he does not need you cause the Cai can do your job you will get demoted.

2: Find ways of regaining some power in the relationship. Make our own outside connections so we are not as reliant on Vanski for outside news and resources. The less reliant we are on the Salikai the less chance they can push you around.

3: Have a survival or bugout plan in place. If things do take a turn for the worse we should have at best a escape route and at the worst everyone in the hive knowing what to do in a emergency.

4: Befriend the Cai. You say you don't trust it but its more of a prisoner than you are. You can't openly go to it with any of the other plans because it's life is in Vanski's hands but making friends with it and maybe finding a way to keep it safe from the deadman's switch might gain you a powerful ally.

5: Develop safeguards for your own tech. Make sure that any specialized tech you build can never be used directly against you. Keep the fact that countermeasures exist quiet and if Vanski finds out say that they exist so our enemies can not repurpose our tech against us.

6: Develop safguards and weapons designed against the other races that make up the Salikai forces. You can easily disguise these as failed prototypes that you are working on redesigning.

7: Consider having a plan (in your head only) for Assasinating Vanski in his lair. If you got him alone with no one around and now had access to the Cai's deadman's switch you would control the facility.

8: Remember that any weapons you develop that are designed to kill or affect Neumono could be used on you once they are done. If someone hates your race bad enough to develop special weapons to hurt or kill you then he is going to secretly hate his "Tame" neumono as well.
>>
No. 758947 ID: 398fe1

Maybe the escape plan is the most feasible, but we'd have to make sure it never reaches the ears of the salikai. Also the entire hive might not make it out. We should be prepared for that scenario.

Alternatively, we could strike a bargain with Vanski to downscale the science hive, by relocating the majority somewhere else that's nicer. If we can improve the situation for the majority of the hive, it'll be worth it.
>>
No. 758949 ID: e22b1d

Whatever we do it has to start very subtly. Salikai can see patterns faster than you can despite there lack of true social skills.

If Valaski notices you changing things in a way that looks like a betrayal he will clamp down hard on you. So make sure your plans are or at least look completely innocent. Even if you just want to be equals in the relationship and are fine working with him you need to be stronger to do so. Right now its not a equal partnership.

Your history as a pure science hive is probably your biggest strength. So taking on crazy research projects that will later help only you would be easy to work on in the open. Just make sure they have a component that Vanski can use each time.

And any plan that will go unnoticed has to be hidden from the Cai as well. Either by hiding it in plain sight or by having so many things going at once even the Cai can not concentrate on it all at once.
>>
No. 758951 ID: 3abd97

>If you have ideas, now's the time to share them. But let the queen do the legwork. A salikai will get suspicious if the CAI supervisor starts dealing with the management job.
The core of the problem right now is the balance of your relationship with Vanski. You are dependent on him for intermediaries to contact the outside world, for resources, for protection. But there's no real trust between the two of you, and he doesn't need you the way you need him. He doesn't depend on you the way you depend on him. It's a one way relationship.

Part of this is you're one of several groups dependent on Vanski slash operating under his umbrella. Your hive, the CAI, the arkots, etc. And Vanski is free to play these groups against each other if they cross or displease him.

One obvious play is to try to skew the balance of power by interfering with Vanski's ability to play other sides against you. The most obvious is the CAI. Your hive (and your research in particular) is the blade Vanski can hold over the CAI. By the same token, it's the CAI's reason to be vigilant against your hive in favor of Vanski (the CAI would prefer an excuse to come down on you and remove you from the field, making it's own position more secure). If you remove or compromise your own ability to hurt the CAI... alliance with the CAI becomes possible. Vanski loses the ability to effectively hold you against the CAI, and the CAI loses motive to act preemptively against you for self preservation. (And if you keep it secret you've removed your capacity to harm the CAI, you can collaborate with it even as Vanski thinks he's playing you against each other).

It's a risky play (since the CAI could rat you out or turn on you immediately) but it's the same kind of game theory risk-reward thing you've watched from studying your CAI simulation cycles. People with no real reason to trust each other, except they stand better odds of survival if they do.

Another obvious play is try and win Vanski over. Require his trust, make yourselves more useful or valuable to him again. Obvious benefits to this, but if you've known him this long, and the relationship has been getting slowly worse, I have doubts you can accomplish this at this point.

Another play might be trying to earn the favor of one of Vanski's children. They compete with each other- make them compete to earn your hive's cooperation with their enterprises exclusively. Make yourself useful to the child as a shield from the parent. (Risky in that young salikai betray their allies as a matter of course. It's how they learn, for goodness sake).

Backdoors and countermeasures in your tech. Planned obsolescence, obscurity, etc. You make it so the systems you're developing aren't perfect. They require you to keep them going. Downside here is salikai and the CAI are both smart- without CAI cooperation, it could likely keep things running as well as you could, and maybe the salikai could too, if they could concentrate on the problem long enough.

Who's been handling relations with Vanski's faction so far? Would it help if you put more of the younger generation on it? They wouldn't have the same bad history, and they have a different mindset. It's possible he might respond to them better.

Escape? If things go bad, people just leave and head for the ultras. (Secretly hide thumb drives with information inside some of the young? Hard part would be leaving them ignorant to their own implants, and them not showing up on salikai security).

Replace Vanski with a better alternative? What they really need are chaperons and smart manegment while they nerd it up. In the present, Sealock is kind of perfect for that role, but that potential teamup can't happen until after things go bad.

Empathy dependent tech? Anything that requires neumono to work would make it awful hard to replace or remove you.

Contacts outside the hive, and that don't require going through Vanski. If you want leverage, you need other options.

Deadman options? If he turns on you, something you made will turn on him, eventually. From a direction he never expected, and delayed to go off long after he's stopped checking for traps.

...there's always immortality through cloning or AI upload as a last resort, but you sure don't have that tech working, yet.
>>
No. 758953 ID: 3abd97

>>758951
Oh, and the secondary problem is your own hive. People like yourself, who have the authority and respect to influence things, use that authority to buy yourself unrestricted lab access instead of using it to help manage the hive. So you're dependent on the salikai and outsiders to mostly take that role from you. You've surrendered power and responsibility in the pursuit of science, and your own interests.

...as loath as you are to admit it.
>>
No. 758959 ID: 285fca

Be careful with how you talk about these options. If there are any monitoring devices nearby, we don't want Vanski to feel threatened. As you speak out loud, phrase things like you want to find out how to serve his business better and be more productive and valuable. Add the more... detailed context through empathy.
>>
No. 758960 ID: 285fca

Oh, also... one for you personally, Likol. How hard would it be for you to actually pull out a functional CAI without anyone noticing? The process goes almost right up to the end, anyway. Could you jam a computer into the side and yank out a few AIs into a little handy mini-CAI of your own?
>>
No. 758998 ID: bfb318
File 147928280864.png - (19.67KB , 800x800 , 17.png )
758998

"What happened with the connections we made earlier? I know Vanski doesn't like rubbing noses with so many others."
>"He doesn't, and that's what his kids are for. We've made connections. They've all dissipated."
"It doesn't mean we can't try again."

It's more difficult than you think. All those connections we had, for them to just dissolve one after the other into deadends like that... it's unlikely.
>"Sabotage was likely."

I stop thinking about that. Those are dangerous thoughts. Still, Quokko does like the idea if not for the added difficulty of Vanski explicitly hampering our ability to do so.

"I'd like to integrate our equipment into more systems. Make the salikai more reliant on us."
>"The Su'ata salikai would be relucant to let that happen, but... if we're quiet about it... I'll see what we have in the oven that we can bake into the base."

Not stuff that can easily be used with the CAI.

An escape plan? We could escape, but we doubt it would be easy. Either living out in the wild again, or throwing our fates in with an ultrahive. Nevermind one doesn't just 'leave' the underweb with the secrets we have, Vanski or not.

I'll try talking with the CAI again. Sometimes I try to work with them and get some friendliness. It doesn't go far, but it's worth a try.

>Safeguards for one's own tech and other weapons
We have to run it through Vanski. We can't hide hidden projects him for long.

>Assassinating Van---
no

no thinking
Do not ever think that.

Very dangerous thoughts. Which make things like hidden safeguards, escape plans, deadman options, and so on extremely dangerous to even think about.

There is no such thought that only happens in my own head. It gets in my hives head. Then, sometimes, neumono come to 'visit' and ask 'gentle' questions while probing us.

It's safe, here, we monitor this location. No surveillance has been installed as long, so just don't yell.

>Who's been handling relations with Vanski's faction so far?
Quokko.

>How hard would it be for you to actually pull out a functional CAI without anyone noticing? Could you jam a computer into the side and yank out a few AIs into a little handy mini-CAI of your own?
Impossible. The only tech that can generate a CAI, currently, are the four CAI blocks A-D. We only have one of each, in other words, only one container. Making a new CAI means overriding the old CAI, and the blocks themselves are in Vanski's room, where I don't have access.

Even the quantum computer can't store them in their current form. That computer is just a glorified processor that the actual CAI blocks use to help process things faster.

>Would it help if you put more of the younger generation on it? They wouldn't have the same bad history, and they have a different mindset. It's possible he might respond to them better.
He would see them as social prey, and manipulate them as hard as he can.

"Wait. The children."

Of course. They compete with one another. They aren't as high strung, yet at least, as Vanski. They still recognize our use, and our history.

If we can get good relations with a child, we can get protection through them.

More life with salikai favor as another necessary resource?

We need better management, but...

It's easy and will hold us over for awhile while we try for more long term solutions. We'll look into it. Even the more outlandish ideas.

Don't enact any plans that doesn't look innocent on the outside.

"I won't do anything reckless, but trying for subtlety hasn't work well in the past. Let me handle things if something goes sour."
>>
No. 758999 ID: bfb318
File 147928281853.png - (15.73KB , 800x800 , 18.png )
758999

We sit in peace a moment, and reminisce for a little while, while it's still dark.

It's interrupted by a ping on my clock. It's not a notification about the Ring Shell, which probably sounds more like an airhorn, or proper alarm. The gentle ping is someone in the lab calling to me.

>"It's Momu get in here ASAP!!!!!!!!!!"
>>
No. 759002 ID: 285fca

Book it!
>>
No. 759006 ID: 398fe1

>>758999
ASAP means ASAP. Get a move on.
>>
No. 759007 ID: 595d54

>>758999
Well clearly you should be ignoring warnings from your hivemate watching the CAI. No big deal.

Go get some exercise and cardio. By running. To Momu.
>>
No. 759010 ID: 6d3d3d

TO THE INSOMNIAMOBILE!
>>
No. 759011 ID: edee29

>>758999
>"It's Momu get in here ASAP!!!!!!!!!!"
Did she find something? It couldn't be a sudden error message, the cycle should still be pretty early in the prelims. Don't worry about your queen's order to take a break, it's not really work if something major just happened! Unless something broke down, that is, in which case you shouldn't be on break anyway.

Say, what kind of information can you easily extract from the contestants' life experiences? Even their last coherent thought could prove interesting. Maybe you could focus on that anomaly, and find out why it keeps getting so far.

Speaking of the anomaly, what's the spread of its successes? Did those 50 wins happen fairly randomly, were they fairly evenly spaced, or were there clumps of wins interspersed with massive gaps? That last one could be interesting, since one explanation is that previous cycles are directly influencing later ones in some way that affects who survives.
>>
No. 759016 ID: b412df

Looks like the mystery box is finally doing stuff that might make it not a mystery, to the lab, for Science!
>>
No. 759030 ID: 3abd97

>>758998
You left out maybe the most promising idea, which was trying to win over the CAI by removing the knife you currently hold over it's head. (And maybe not telling Vanski you did).

Which is risky for obvious reasons, but if you remove the ability for Vanski to play your hive and the CAI against each other, cooperating in mutual self interest, instead of being wary towards each other with an eye for survival, becomes possible.

>"It's Momu get in here ASAP!!!!!!!!!!"
Momu's paging me. Something interesting must have actually happened. Excuse me.
>>
No. 759063 ID: 34e2f1

>>758999
How many bangs (!) is it before the Momu-meter trips to full "oh fuck"? Your other hibernate I could see sending all that, but Mini …?
>>
No. 759079 ID: bfb318
File 147932575194.png - (43.83KB , 800x800 , 19.png )
759079

>Win over the CAI by removing the knife you currently hold over it's head.
I'm conflicted on this. To remove that would mean shutting down the experiment such that no more cycles occur, which would not take long for Vanski or another Su'ata to notice. Even if the CAI became friendly, Vanski would still have other knives over their heads, namely being in control of the physical CAI blocks. I don't believe the CAI is hostile to us, either. They have no reason to remove us; their position is secure enough, being a CAI.

This reminds me why it's difficult to speak to the CAI at length, too. If Vanski notices I speak to them much, he may suspect collaboration.

>Say, what kind of information can you easily extract from the contestants' life experiences?
Easily? Very little. Just a few facts, like if one is still alive, what stages it's gotten through, and what other IDs it's come into contact with. Which could mean that ID became their best friend, or they entered their line of sight at some point in time, but there's no way to easily tell which.

>Speaking of the anomaly, what's the spread of its successes?
Random, more or less. There's significant gaps here and there, and it's been a long time since I've seen it, but it's difficult to tell if that's significant, or simply the usual odd spread that can occur with random distribution.

"Momu's paging me." I tell Quokko.
>"How convenient."
"I'd better go, in case it's something."
>"Don't work all day."
"I already haven't."

>How many bangs (!) is it before the Momu-meter trips to full "oh fuck"?
More bangs just make it sound sarcastic. In any case, the only real thing she can send out from the lab are loud noises, due to the security measures in which the lab practices radio and wireless silence. The wireless receptor outside the station then reads the noise, and then commits an action based on the noise - in this case, it was to send a preset message to my watch. Rihhin probably got it to, but she's most likely asleep.

>Get a move on
>Book it
>Run
Just in case, I don't waste time.
>>
No. 759080 ID: bfb318
File 147932576951.png - (25.98KB , 800x800 , 20.png )
759080

Momu feels like she's going to explode waiting for me to finish the scans, showers and so on. She rushes up to me as I approach the room.

>"There you are! Look at this!" she says, gesturing to my desktop.

"ID numbers."
>"Nearly all the regular winners have made it through the first preliminary stage!"
"If you think about it, that's the most likely scenario."
>"Yeah but there's so many scenarios it's still really unlikely so now all the usual winners are doing well!"
"Momu... I don't know what that has to do with our research. Is the corruptor doing anything yet?" I ask, but I doubt it. It remains dormant for the first few stages, which is a couple of days real time.
>"No but I bet it's hyperactive this round!" But I don't know yet.

It's been active in almost every single cycle regardless, but sometimes it's far more active than others, with no middle ground between regular active and hyperactive. To date, we haven't found a reason why its activity, on a scale of one to ten, either is above a 7 or below a 5.

After a minute of empathizing with Momu, I confirm there is nothing new, and nothing interesting, about this cycle, as there never is in the first couple of rounds. She is just excited. Excited about science. She is impervious to my apathy, thankfully.
>>
No. 759081 ID: 595d54

Pat Momu on the head. Check in as much detail as you can, just in case. If it's nothing, back to Quokko or what serves as the lounge, I guess.
>>
No. 759083 ID: 3d2d5f

>what other IDs it's come into contact with. Which could mean that ID became their best friend, or they entered their line of sight at some point in time, but there's no way to easily tell which.
If you reset this parameter repeatedly and log results, you'd have a list of associations over time. Would allow you to better hypothesize which AIs are choosing (or forced) to associate with one another.

>>759080
Thank Momu, head pat, give her reassurance to calm her down.

Thank you for keeping me informed, but please try to reserve the asap alert for anything new or unusual.

What now? Either you keep planning contingencies or other ways to improve the situation behind the safety of your less monitored lab, or you get back to work. What work is there to do early in a cycle?
>>
No. 759084 ID: db0da2

>She is just excited. Excited about science.
That's a good attitude to have, even if it doesn't really mesh well with the situation y'all're in.

I suppose you should keep a close eye on them in case they do something interesting this time around, though I suppose you were going to do that anyway, because that's your (entire?) job.
>>
No. 759085 ID: 285fca

I'm guessing that any line of communication that could lead from the AIs inside back out to the real world would be a problem, but you have power over what they experience, right? Have you inserted any deposits of information or recorded messages that would tell the AIs in the sim anything about you or the wider situation or that would just maybe help them feel better about the whole thing, on the chance that they are sentient in there?

What is the protocol for if things start going really off-track in there, anyway? You are scientists, and it's from aberrations that you learn the most. If the system was isolated, I'd guess the plan would be to just let whatever's in there fall over all the way on its own and then look at the records, but if it's connected in to the main CAI, I'm guessing there's a certain cut-off point where the threat has to be dealt with? On the other hand, you did say the CAI was replaceable. How much deviation, how many anomalies do you put up with before you press the forced reset button?

What would you do if, for example, one of the cycles just stopped progressing? Not as in totally freezing, but like if it still stayed active but kept going forever without reaching the final stages. Would you just observe whatever activity you could?
>>
No. 759087 ID: 094652

This could be a sign of a higher intelligence in the machine. If the trend of high survival rates continues, then the most likely cause is that something is tinkering with the process, and if it isn't an outside hacker then it has to be an inside hacker. Luck or intelligence, you could boost your funding by capturing the AIs responsible for this.

... Is what you'd say 3,000 cycles ago. Except you're not that gullible anymore. Tell Momu that this is a good case file, but you expect things to go back to normal once the process ups its ante and pushes the AIs into a corner and forces them to sacrifice a few survivors. You can observe this cycle because its one of the few that managed to induce mass cooperation, indicating a better CAI build, and you can even expect them to breeze through the next two trials thanks to this overwhelming horde of cooperating specialists. And scapegoats. But once they get to one of the trials where saving almost everyone ISN'T an option, they'll either fight it out or refuse to play further. You can start yelling AFTER they beat something that specifically selects a fixed number of surviving AIs.
>>
No. 759097 ID: 850f11

Don't squash that enthusiasm. You want her excited about possible breakthroughs. Maybe nothing will come of it but don't infect her with your apathy.

Honestly her attitude is just what you need around her. Having watched this for so long you have grown cynical. So if there are any sudden breakthroughs then you might not be in the right mindset to see the signs.

So help her set up some extra monitoring so you can see if this is a fluke or something worthwhile. Maybe its going to be nothing but will be a good learning experience for her. And you teaching her will help your mood.

You know you could talk to the Cai more without suspicion if you proposed it up as a experiment to try and speed up your research. Along the way you could slowly get to know it better and let it realize that you have its best interests at heart. If Vanski ever does turn against you having the Cai be friendly will help.
>>
No. 759100 ID: 398fe1

>>759080
>haven't found a reason why it's never a moderate amount
Maybe you should be thinking from the opposite direction. Why is the stabilizer not allowing a moderate amount of corruption? Why is the stabilizer allowing a large amount of corruption? Maybe your creation has developed its own agenda. Did you even tell it what it was made to do?

Anyway, you said earlier that changing a contestant's hidden values would drastically alter their behavior. The simulation as a whole can change based on different initial conditions. This is new, even if it hasn't done anything interesting yet. Any particularly extreme initial conditions can mark a particularly interesting cycle, but it may take a while for those initial conditions to develop.

So keep an eye on things. Track their progress, and see if you can spot any aberrant IDs following along with the successful AIs.
>>
No. 759131 ID: 211d83

Give it to her as a project.

Have her follow those id's and compare them to previous cycles. She can track them over the stages and see if this is something special or a fluke.

Have her tracking and collating the data will be fun for her and no matter what way it goes you will have some extra data to add to your calculations.
>>
No. 759141 ID: bfb318
File 147934323314.png - (14.73KB , 800x800 , 21.png )
759141

>If you reset this parameter repeatedly and log results, you'd have a list of associations over time.
We have, actually, considering it's one of the few things easily gained.

So we do have a list of frequent interactions, at least, but it's often difficult to tell if they're friends or enemies.

Ultimately, though, the lives and experiences of the AI aren't part of the experiment, and are just a passing interest. It's an entirely different field. The only work-related interest I have with them is that they, namely the corruptor, is what causes aberrations in the RS, and the RS is what I study.

>Have you inserted any deposits of information or recorded messages that would tell the AIs in the sim anything about you or the wider situation or that would just maybe help them feel better about the whole thing, on the chance that they are sentient in there?
I have. Out of some weird sense of old amusement, I gave them old pictures I used to take. They are made to be a blotch inside of Block C that is easier to isolate out than the AIs or stages or other information, and as a result, I have an easier time finding out if they've been found or not. The whole purpose of them is just a checkpoint system to confirm that the constestants are making it through the stages in the first place.

Or at least, that's all they're useful for. The other purpose was just me experimenting with inserting things inside of the stages.

In any case, I can't imagine they're sentient. There's simply no way that so many sentient, self aware beings could all be processed so quickly. Arza wanted us to believe they were, but he spoke highly of even the most rote AI, and I believe he meant it in a best-practice kind of sentiment. Much like how people on teams are told that everything that their team does is their own individual fault - maybe useful as an attitude, but wildy untrue.

I do not recall when my hive's lower generation got a taste for head pats, but it's not something I can reasonably fight.
>>
No. 759143 ID: bfb318
File 147934328938.png - (37.73KB , 800x800 , 22.png )
759143

>Why is the stabilizer allowing a large amount of corruption? Did you even tell it what it was made to do?
My only guess is that it normally tries to limit the corruption, but if it gets corrupted itself, then it backs off the next cycle. If that's the case, then the corruptor always attempts an 8-10, but if the stabilizer is active, it reliably gets dialed back to a 2-4.

It's not supposed to stop the corruption. It's just there as backup. I can't implant memories in contestants, but in the beginning, it should have received a note from me explaining its purpose. It seems to be more proactive than intended, but I haven't deteced any problems from it.

>What work is there to do early in a cycle?
Typically that's when I look at the RS and the error logs of the previous cycle.

"This is a good case file, but the stages don't get any less dangerous overall. Keep your focus up, but don't count on anything. I'm going to get to my work."
>"Okay! I've translated the last batch of error messages. What do you want me to do?"
"... study the AIs."
>"Whoa, really? I mean, I'm not complaining, I can keep imprinting the RS visuals on my eyeballs if you want!"
"I might be going about this in the wrong direction. Perhaps instead of trying to read the RS, we should read the AIs and see how they influence the RS."

Granted, we've tried this before on countless occasions, but Momu might have more luck this time.

There's also a tiny chance that the corruptor and the stabilizer may have the tools needed to find out about the ringshell, and if either of our custom AIs can learn to use the RS to communicate with us, that would make our jobs as good as done.

Parallel Unregistered found.

That's the common one. Rihhin's AI creates its own sub processes.

After a more in depth look at my stabilizer, it looks like its spawn got corrupted at some point in cycle 3118, which does mean this will be another hyperactive cycle after all. I start getting a faint glimmer of hope, but it comes from Momu.

>What is the protocol for if things start going really off-track in there, anyway? You did say the CAI was replaceable. How much deviation, how many anomalies do you put up with before you press the forced reset button?
The CAI is, but the blocks are not, except for Block B which can be replaced without too much hassle. My stabilizer can repair block C if that goes poorly. Block D, however... if that starts going awry, the whole system will freeze if it gets too far. That is irreplaceable. So far, though, it's intact, and it seems to be a self repairing, self replicating system. If there's been any damage to it, it's been so miniscule as to be undetectable underneath all its noise.

If the RS looks like it's taking damage, though, is when we pull the plug on this arch cycle.

>What would you do if, for example, one of the cycles was active, but not progressing?
I might take a more in depth look at the contestants and block C than I normally do, but ultimately, there is a function that force starts a new cycle. Once, somewhere on cycle two thousand something, the cycles didn't seem to be restarting properly. I used the force new start function, and that seemed to fix the issue.

There's not much to monitor for today. Beginning tomorrow morning, things may start picking up. I'll just inspect the previous cycle to see if I stumble on anything.

It is true, although Momu calms herself around me, her enthusiasm does rub off back onto me.

Before I know it, it's 8 PM. I haven't seen Rihhin, but she has other things going on. Momu is still excited, if tiredly so.

"I bet youuu...." Momu breaks the silence as she gets an idea. "That this cycle is going to stand out past the rest! And if it does, then you have to do my share of cleaning next time I get put on cleaning duty! And if it's just a ho hum cycle that doesn't help us, then it's reversed. How about it?"

This bet again. She just likes it when I let her clean up after me.
>>
No. 759146 ID: 211d83

Take the bet just for fun. Win or lose you get to socialize and do something out of the box.
>>
No. 759147 ID: 595d54

Take it. Even if it's just something she likes, it's nice to do stuff with hivemates.

"Any ideas how it'll stand out?"
>>
No. 759149 ID: edee29

>>759079
>it's difficult to tell if [the gaps are] significant, or simply the usual odd spread that can occur with random distribution
Yeah, it's admittedly hard to get a good sample size, but what if it's not random? Maybe the cycles aren't completely self contained, and some form of information is passing into future cycles. Do we have any way of testing for that? If we can confirm it and learn how it's being done, can we inject our own information to influence the contest?

Hmm... do you still have data on the anomaly for the cycles it didn't complete? It if just suddenly starts consistently dying at a specific point that would point toward some sort of extra-cycle influence that it had to overcome.

>>759143
>If the RS looks like it's taking damage, though, is when we pull the plug on this arch cycle
Would you even have time to pull the plug? With the processing speed available to it, if something in there does figure out how to damage it then it'll probably do everything in a matter of seconds, if not faster.
>>
No. 759150 ID: 094652

> There's simply no way that so many sentient, self aware beings could all be processed so quickly.

You're using a supercomputer designed to build and improve upon what took the universe billions of years to accidentally come up with through trial and error, and it's capable of processing and simultaneously testing one trillion different autonomous programs. At a fraction of lightspeed. With minimal user input.

Face it, Likol. They are smarter than you. They are also working together, which means they can cloud compute their "living" processes, the parts that take up most of the AI space. Who's to say they aren't even more sentient?
>>
No. 759151 ID: 3abd97

>I haven't seen Rihhin, but she has other things going on.
Check on her, at some point, maybe? She checked on you, earlier.

>This bet again. She just likes it when I let her clean up after me.
Indulge her. It's harmless fun, and if she actually wins the bet you're going to be so excited you won't even mind having to clean for a change.

>Momu is still excited, if tiredly so.
Should probably send her to bed at some point. You've slept more recently and can watch longer. With the logic that she wants to get her rest in now before it gets really interesting. If she's right, she won't want to miss that part. (And of course you'll page her if things go nuts).
>>
No. 759152 ID: b412df

Guessing "Parallel Unregistered found" is the corrupter spawning devotees, and the force new cycle around cycle 2000 or so was when glitcher and corrupter tried to perpetuate the cycles.
>>
No. 759153 ID: edee29

>>759143
>>759150
This guy raises a good point. Think of it this way: what if it's not processing a trillion AI, but a single AI that's pretending to be a trillion AI?
>>
No. 759155 ID: e22b1d

Well if you are that confident then why not.

But that means more projects for us. If we suddenly get morse code this cycle then we need be ready to figure out what our new baby Ai is up to and how we can talk to it. Might be a pretty simple little guy so we might need to have a way to translate ready.

Plus we should have a test server to transfer it to if possible so we can run tests and see how it reacts to life outside the shell.

Getting to talk with a proto-Ai before block 4 hits it might give us all the info we need to break this wide open.

(Sure you are humoring her but she will enjoy the challenge. Plus gives you a project to work on instead of worrying about your underworld patron.)
>>
No. 759157 ID: 285fca

Take the bet.

Just so we can be sure what normal and abnormal are, could you give us a brief overview of the whole process from beginning to end, what each of the boxes do, where the ring shell is involved and how, et cetera? Along with what modifications and insertions have been done to the system, and what each such was intended to accomplish? Were any in-built systems suppressed or removed?

Also, what's the best speculation for how these ancient systems were originally "supposed" to run? How much of what's in there is from the original ancient belenosian work?
>>
No. 759159 ID: 398fe1

>>759143
>Parallel Unregistered found.
Does this always happen in hyperactive cycles? Does it EVER happen in non-hyperactive cycles? Also what does that mean? Are the custom AIs "unregistered"?
Don't you think it's a bit odd that the corrupting AI seems to produce exactly twice as much corruption in hyperactive cycles? It's almost like there's twice as many AIs producing corruption, not that the stabilizing AI backed off. Why would it do that every time, anyway?

>can't be sentient(sapient), too much processing power needed
Hey, what if the Ring Shell's AI is really the only AI in the box? Like, it's the brain and all the contestants are sub-processes running in it under different variables? The Ring Shell could have a lot of processing time by running this way since it would be able to make no-brainer choices for everyone at once and only have to really make individual choices when there are hard choices or important environmental/personality factors.

>I used the force new start function, and that seemed to fix the issue.
Did you do that more than once? Like around cycle 1000-something? Also, did anything else of note happen during the cycle had to use that function on? Like perhaps did your stabilizing AI get disrupted? Did you code anything in to protect your AI?

Accept her bet. It's a win-win scenario for you. If something interesting happens, you won't mind losing the bet, will you?
>>
No. 759231 ID: bfb318
File 147936012503.png - (31.53KB , 800x800 , 23.png )
759231

>Maybe the cycles aren't completely self contained, and some form of information is passing into future cycles.
They certainly aren't, although in an ideal run time, they effectively would be.

>Do you still have data on the anomaly for the cycles it didn't complete?
Yes, we log everything, and I confirm that we still have empty hard drive space for the happenings in Block C and the RS.

I have Momu look up the anomaly of overly generous game theory. She says she's looked into that, and explains that more often than not, the anamoly dies in either stage 3 or stage 7. The former due to another strong performer, the latter due to the simple fact that that stage has a 99.9% mortality rate anyways.

>Do we have any way of testing for that?
Unfortunately, not easily. Moving from one cycle to the next is something the RS operates, and while I have spent countless days trying to read what the RS is doing, I haven't got far.

>Did you force-start around cycle 1000-something?
No. I noticed cycles around then got strangely influenced, and I have some bugged information on the cycle, but the RS did not seem to get affected differently. I would have been worried, but after a few weeks, it fixed itself.

>Did you code anything in to protect your AI?
No. Block B should be isolated from Block C, still, so even if they are damaged in Block C, their origin, B, should remain untouched.

>Did your stabilizing AI get disrupted?
Aside from the corruptions, its presence in the stages has been eradicated a couple of times. I've looked, but it didn't seem like the RS reacted, or at least, if it did, it was such a minor change that I never could find it.

>They are smarter than you.
I'm sure, but I don't believe they are self aware, much like a calculator can do a hundred thousand calculations in the time it takes me to do one, but I'm aware of one more calculation than it is.

>What if it's one AI controlling a trillion others
It's - I can't rule that out, at least not from a literal standpoint.

Yet from what Dr. Fletch has told me, the initial one trillion AI share many thought process to save on computing speed, and then slowly become more independent. Plus, Block B has individual entries for all included AI. I suppose it's still possible that it's just one computer system dividing its thoughts and just uses Block B as a guide on how to divide them, but they can definitely be thought of as individuals on some level. I can't help but think of the computer like the hive, and the AI like individual neumono, but that may be more projection than logic.

>Brief overview of the whole process from beginning to end, what each of the boxes do, and how much of what's in there is from the original ancient belenosian work?
Block D contains the RS, and the platform where the active CAI sits on. It's essentially the operating system, plus the active CAI. Block B stores the base AI in its pure form. Block C is where all of these attempt cycles take place. Block A acts as the primary processor, as well as the physical wrapping box the other blocks fit in.

Block B is largely customized, either stuff my hive has added, or things aliens added. It's the most solved and simple block. Block C is largely customized by Momu, but only on the surface level. There are lots of unknown functions that get the cycles running.
Block A is unchanged, and studying that is a field for hardware specialists.
Block D is also unchanged. It's been cracked, but that just means we can observe it.

We don't have a good idea if this was common tech in the belenosian empire, or just a cutting edge experiment. Dr. Fletch thinks this might have been an obscene piece to the times, which had very strong notions of one body, one AI.

Once a CAI is made, blocks B and C seem to have minimal activity, but Block D won't work without Block B and C.

>Would you even have time to pull the plug [on the RS]?
Maybe, but we also have a program that can detect major damages on the RS, and it's designed to pause the simulation. However, I'm not entirely sure how the detection works, and how well it pauses the simulation, but since the RS is irreplaceable, there's little choice but to use it.

>Does [Parallel Unregistered found] always happen in hyperactive cycles?
I said common, but it's more than common. There's only been a couple times where this error message didn't occur, and there was effectively no corruptor activity that cycle. The message itself means there was AIs - rudimentary AIs the corruptor made - that all share the exact same values.

>Don't you think it's a bit odd that the corrupting AI seems to produce exactly twice as much corruption in hyperactive cycles?
I used the 1-10 scale arbitrarily.

The hyperactive cycles aren't just double the amount of corruption that occurs. It's more like it's exponential.

Still don't know why. A lot of guesses, not much evidence.

>Plus we should have a test server to transfer [morse code user] to if possible
If it's an AI, I don't have anything it can use. If it's not an AI... then I don't see how it can use morse code.

"Bet accepted."
Yes!
"You should sleep. The interesting stuff will start happening tomorrow morning."
>"Only if you do it too!"
"I woke up after you did."
>"By 10."
"... Fine. I need to check on Rihhin, anyway."

I say that, but I continue watching the ring shell with no UI. Dr. Fletch says it's sometimes important to do so to understand its language. His analogy spoke of studying a foreign language that uses a different character set. One should use the foreign alphabet, not the foreign alphabet translated to native letters.

Blocks do not seem like they should move around like sludge, but that is what the RS seems to do.
>>
No. 759232 ID: bfb318
File 147936016533.png - (25.94KB , 800x800 , 24.png )
759232

I leave to go where I believe Rihhin is. Working on weapons AI, with Norr supplying her with direction.

>"What's up, Likol?" Rihhin asks, while Norr mentally greets me, and I to him.
"Just checking. You usually don't stay out of the lab all day."
>"Momu was in there, so..."

It's fine, of course.
Anything new?
No.

...

>"Geez, we're making AI for weapons with no quality control. My AI has to be able to learn every unique weapon to be useful. I'd rather be making AI for our weapons.
We're working on it."
>"Oh, Likkol, Reon wanted to check out the lab. We got clearance from the Su'ata. Mind if he gets a one day pass to check out what you guys do tomorrow?"

Rihhin appreciates the stop in, but she is busy after all.
>>
No. 759234 ID: 595d54

Headpat Rihhin. What's Reon like?
>>
No. 759239 ID: 094652

NUZZLE Rihhin.
>>
No. 759243 ID: 398fe1

>>759232
Reon stopping by tomorrow would be perfect. The current cycle is a little different than usual so something worth seeing might happen.
>>
No. 759245 ID: 395c02

>>759243
Sounds good.

>>759234
Probably obligatory at this point. Though now I wonder how many hivemates you have to headpat before someone comes up to you for that express purpose...
>>
No. 759252 ID: edee29

>>759231
>more often than not, the anamoly dies in either stage 3 or stage 7
I meant in the large gaps specifically, but that's good to know.

Do the contestants constantly run stages, or do they get rest periods between them to relax and socialize?

>Reon wanted to check out the lab
Sure, he can come by.
>>
No. 759257 ID: bfb318
File 147936384195.png - (18.20KB , 800x800 , 25.png )
759257

>Do the contestants constantly run stages, or do they get rest periods between them to relax and socialize?
Assuming that no stages end up in strange deadlocks between contestants, they will spend more time in a relaxing, pressureless area than actively completing stages.

The thought of headpatting Rihhin crosses my mind.

Its rejection is swift this time, and does not make it to any thoughts of nuzzling. The generational gap includes more than just attitude.

"I do not know Reon well. Tell me about him."
>"Imagine Momu level energy and enthusiasm, but instead of outwardly energetic, he can swallow his energy."
"Choking on enthusiasm, then."
>"That's one way to put it. There's no problem, right?"
"I'm not expecting anything major tomorrow, so even if he would get in the way, there would be nothing to get in the way of. Tomorrow would be good, in fact, especially since we have some good examples of AI to show."
>"Cool. Don't worry about initiation, I'll show him how to enter and exit the place and give him a one day pass."
"One day?"
>"Hive or not, Su'ata still know we're made up of individuals. Don't want any more keycards floating around than necessary."

Even if we also need our faces, eyes, and voice...

I remember I couldn't get in for 3 days because I had a cold.

And that's why I don't leave if I feel like I'm fighting something.

I leave, with nothing more to offer except distractions.
>>
No. 759258 ID: bfb318
File 147936388224.png - (18.76KB , 800x800 , 26.png )
759258

>"Ah!"

A salikai voice? Kiiu, I believe.

>"Likol! I was hoping to see a neumono of importance, and you're right there instead of in your laboratory. Do you have a moment to speak?"
"Yes."
>"I'm making my rounds, as it is beneficial to keep track of all of our little projects we have going. I'd like to hear about your CAI project."
"If there was anything new, Vanski would hear of it first, and then you, among your siblings, second."
>"Specifics, Likol! I'm sure you've been doing something? Think of it like practice of making daily reports to an investor, since you all clearly need it. This is why my father is the manager and speaks to the client, as you must understand. Oh, and if you don't feel comfortable speaking, here, I have a nice little alcove nearby that is designed for calm discussion."
>>
No. 759268 ID: 595d54

>>759258
Headpat Kiiu.

IF we're willing to give him information, which might at least be a good way to get out of Vanski's thumb, then: "Yes. The simulation is acting somewhat unusually, although in a way thus far consistent with many previous iterations. Distributions and error messages have matched a small proportion of simulations thus far, but one of my assistants is convinced it'll develop into something more unusual."

Explain in as much more detail as you feel comfortable.
>>
No. 759271 ID: 398fe1

>>759258
Progress is slow. You're dealing with heavy encryption. Today you're looking closer into how the AIs interact with eachother, in hopes it'll reveal more about the overall structure.
>>
No. 759272 ID: 91ee5f

Jeez, we're turning Likol into Alison! The difference is instead of hugs, he's doing headpats! And he's able to ignore us when we tell him to headpat, unlike Alison, who always hugs when we tell her to!
>>
No. 759274 ID: 285fca

If talking about it out here wouldn't violate some directive to hide certain things, from the CAI for example...

"I'm fine here, if you are. Daily reports? Given the nature of the project, I'm not sure that would be the way to arrange things most effectively. We need to be prepared for problems and opportunities, and when they occur is when we earn our keep the most, but where and when such things arise is effectively random. While we wait, all we have to do is what is now regular maintenance and observation, for which daily reports would, despite the training required, amount to "the same as last time". I was under the impression you would prefer us not to waste your time, and ours, on the equivalent of ringing a bell and shouting "all's well". We are currently tracking a note of some potential interest, but that potential has yet to manifest, and may not."

>Think of it like practice of making daily reports to an investor, since you all clearly need it.
>Offers you a place to be concealed from monitors.

I think the salikai might suspect your concerns with your hive's future.
>>
No. 759276 ID: bfb318
File 147936574247.png - (16.85KB , 800x800 , 27.png )
759276

"Alright. The current cycle is unusual but not abnormal. Distributions and error messages have matched a small proportion of simulations thus far. One of my assistants is convinced things will develop into something more abnormally, although I'm more cautious in my optimism."
>"Does it mean there will be progress?"
"If it's abnormal? It will pave the way to more progress, but we're dealing with encryption the world has not been able to get far into despite huge teams devoted to the cause."
>"Yes, but they aren't doing what we're doing, are they?"

He starts skittering towards me.

>"Tea?"
"No caffiene please, but otherwise yes."

He makes some clicking noise to the arkot, then the arkot goes presumably to get me a drink.

It starts climbing over Kiiu instead of going around. Its bare feet practically kick the salikai before it manages to roll over and land with a soft thud. It scampers off without noticing Kiuu looking at it like it's never going to be seen again.

Kiiu turns back to me. By now, a few hivemates are watching me from the windows, making sure I'm doing alright but not wishing to intervene if they don't have to.

>"Is there anything we can give you that might help? This is our longest project by far, we'd hate for things to reach a dead end. Or any questions about what you are doing. I cannot promise you I'll answer anything, but I will promise you that there will be no retribution for any pointed questions, even if I don't answer it. So please, ask away."
"I hope you weren't suggesting daily reports. Given the nature - "
>"No, no, just to think of this like a daily report. Not to make them, of course. What other questions?"
>>
No. 759277 ID: 595d54

Headpat the arkot.

"Right at this moment, I can't think of anything other than more processing power. I've considered a couple of novel methods of dealing with the simulations, but the reason I didn't implement them was that, frankly, they're not likely enough to work to be worth the resources. However, even if more unorthodox methods fail to yield results, more processing power would at least speed things.

And now that we're being offered additional resources, I'm sure that we can think of something more creative and less expensive than just exponentially more computation by tomorrow. As I said, my assistant has ideas and many other hivemates have creative new ideas in different fields. With the sort of nanobots that make up bioarmor being possible, we may even be able to think of some sort of biology-based solution."
>>
No. 759279 ID: 398fe1

>>759276
Hmm, how about... if Vanski eventually decides your hive isn't worth the resources he's spending on it, would he take you in? At least, those neumono who aren't involved in top secret projects.
>>
No. 759280 ID: 285fca

"Hmm. Well, right now, I'm concerned that you're concerned with our progress. I'm sure you know, as I'm sure was known when the project began, that whether or not we make progress is not entirely within our control. That could theoretically change, if we had tools allowing us to better observe the internal processes of the system, to communicate with AIs in the system, or to make significant adjustments without needing an arch-cycle restart. I assume, however, that those tools aren't available, or I would have heard of them from Arza Fletch. We might also be able to make more sense of the readings we get if we had a clearer understanding of what additions and modifications were made to the system besides our own, and what the intentions behind those adjustments were. We might also, possibly, be able to produce more satisfying results if exactly what you want or don't want out of the project was laid out, to direct our attentions."
>>
No. 759282 ID: 285fca

"If I'm dreaming of ideal resources, what would be most useful would be another set of CAI boxes, with a duplicate system that could be run at the same time, as a control for whatever adjustments are made to the other, as proper scientific method would require. I doubt the likelihood of that, however. Thinking of the scientific method, however, the concept of peer review comes to mind. More contact and communication with other scientists performing similar research, like Fletch, would potentially help us make sense of our own work."
>>
No. 759283 ID: b412df

>>759279
It's too early for big plays like that, stick to just helping the project for now. Even if no retribution was emphasised, we don't want them to know we're looking for a escape.

>>759280
This, better understanding of the system we're working with will be helpful.
>>
No. 759284 ID: 285fca

Another idea: If any have been recovered and reverse engineered enough to be functional, ancient belenosian tools for interfacing with this ancient belenosian system could reveal things that our current tools can't. But again, I'd assume (Dr? Professor?) Fletch would already be tracking such developments.
>>
No. 759285 ID: 398fe1

>>759283
>we don't want them to know we're looking for a escape.
Well I mean if we emphasize that it's not an escape but a place to go if Vanski doesn't want them anymore, it'd go over a bit better. Besides the hive doesn't really want to leave they're just nervous about getting betrayed and killed off.
>>
No. 759286 ID: 398fe1

Wait, can we even speak openly here about the research? The CAI can't hear us here can it?
>>
No. 759289 ID: 3abd97

>>759232
Not sure what salikai and/or science hive weapons we've seen that need their own AIs. They sure don't seem to use smart guns. Maybe the companion AIs for the greenie armor (like Bell, except she came from Katzati and somewhere else), or maybe it's targeting AIs for the auto-turrets?

>Its rejection is swift this time, and does not make it to any thoughts of nuzzling. The generational gap includes more than just attitude.
She rejected the thought, or you self-censored?

>>759258
Hey, look, more dead characters.

You should indulge him a little, Likol. You raised the idea with Quokko earlier of trying to win over some of the Su'ata kids, even if you're losing favor with Vanski himself. Part of that probably means talking to them.

And sure, he's probably looking for an advantage over his siblings by getting advance information, but that's to be expected.

(...also, Kiiu was by far the most reasonable and responsible of the salikai. If Rokoa hadn't killed him I think Polo could have kept working with him, maybe even tried to prop him up against the more unpleasant factions of his family).

>>759276
>Is there anything we can give you that might help?
If we could somehow convince Arza Fletch to come on board that would greatly accelerate things, but as things are we have had to conceal the extent of our research from him. He would disapprove of what we're doing on a moral or philosophical level.

A tool like the CAI itself would be fantastic for analyzing the data and accelerating the results, except of course we cannot trust the CAI with detailed information about it's own inner workings and strive to keep it out of the lab at all costs. Not that I am advocating this change, but is a significant irony.
>>
No. 759305 ID: edee29

>>759276
>Is there anything we can give you that might help?
Every species has its own neurological quirks. Having someone who is not a Neumono to offer their perspective on the data could be helpful.


Hmm... on the subject of making a better CAI, I don't think taking the first group to come through is the best way to go about it. There's too much luck involved. Running the contest numerous times to see which AIs are likely to finish and then making a CAI out of your personal favourites seems better. Like, for Vanski's case, taking the ones on the administrative track that never jump ship and enter the stage area. Maybe grab that anomaly, too, to have an AI that's good at dealing with people. The others that are allowed in can temper any rebellious tendencies it might have.
>>
No. 759310 ID: 850f11

First move this meeting to somewhere the Cai can't listen.

Well I have several ideas to improve things but they would require a large change in our current direction of research.

Our current methodology while effective is extremely slow. It's like we set a ant farm on a dictionary and are watching it through a telescope waiting for it to start building letters out of sand to talk with us. Eventually we might get results and we learn a lot from watching the ants but is not the info we want.

While Arza thinks our methods are "unethical" they are probably not unethical enough if we want results faster. We can't make any major changes to our methods for fear of breaking the current Cai. Any time I have a great idea for speeding things up I realize its not worth the risk of breaking our only set of creation blocks.

So here is some stuff that we could use to speed things along.

1. A test server to pull out and isolate Ai's before they are packaged. If we can extract one or more of the promising contestants and look through there memories we could find the traits Vanski is looking for.

2. A second D block so we could spin up a new Cai off the current cycle without erasing the old one. I know getting another one is unlikely but if we had it we could actually spin up new Cai's to test every week. Then we could compare data from earlier and hand pick what Ai seeds go into the new Cai.

3. Scheduling a meeting with Arza would be nice. Keeping him in the dark would be tricky but he is the best Ai tech. Maybe we should let him in on what we are doing? I know he suspects it already. But maybe we could lure him onto the team with the promise of giving him his "children" back if he fixed our problem. Would give him a incentive to help solve things quickly.

4. More opportunities to research on the current Cai. I shudder at the thought of letting it get to close to its core but we should get a team set up to study its mannerisms. Our ultimate goal is to get a Cai full of Ai's that would be eager to work for our organization. But we can't do so without finding out what our current ai's individual personalities are like. If we can learn more about our current Cai members then we can cross reference them to there originals in the contest.
>>
No. 759378 ID: 285fca

Sorry to be a distraction, but I was thinking on that sentience question some more. Sentient/sapient beings aren't really that way all the time, are they? For the most part, most people follow a routine in their daily actions, interactions and thought. They get "trained" by the habits of their life and work and follow that, most of the time. And, most of the time, the things sentient beings do and think about aren't that much different from non-sentient life, just with layers of removal. Instead of "find food", it's "find work, to get money, to get food", which is a level of abstraction but not really much different than an animal trained to do tricks for treats. Same for concerns about survival, about one's position in a pack heirarchy, et cetera. Most of the time, what people are thinking is just observation, processing and puzzle solving, which is a matter of intelligence but not of the qualities of sentience or sapience, really. People have the capacity for sentience, but they don't use it all the time, or even most of the time. Like how a person who can be very smart sometimes isn't necessarily smart all the time or in relation to all things. Some people do think complex sentient thoughts a lot, but for most people, their sentience/sapience only really comes into play when something unusual happens, something that defies their normal habits/training, something that makes them have to rev up that sentience engine and really think complicated thoughts. And all of this makes sense, evolutionarily speaking. Braining takes energy, and overcomplicated thoughts can distract from immediate concerns. Synaptic pruning and all that, you know. It's important not to think too much as it is to not think too little. So... for an AI, the energy and processing demands of sentience can be streamlined a lot, too. Simple capacity for sentience wouldn't take up as much power as being sentient all the time.

... There's some excessive thoughts for you, right there.

I hope the medical team kept trying after their failure. It might be too late for Vanski's mate, but producing a cure for the condition afterwards would at least demonstrate they were earnestly trying, and it could be marketed to other salikai who have or might develop the same condition.
>>
No. 759390 ID: 3abd97

>Every species has its own neurological quirks. Having someone who is not a Neumono to offer their perspective on the data could be helpful.
Basically giving the salikai an open invitation to poke around the lab right when stuff (Likol doesn't know is going to happen) starts to go down could backfire on us.
>>
No. 759400 ID: 285fca

>>759390

Well, adding just one extra type of mind to the process wouldn't do much, so it'd be easy to argue we need a variety.

The justification is simple: aliens are aliens and their brains work in different ways, their thoughts follow different patterns. We neumono can come up with ideas, solutions and opportunities that a member of another species wouldn't even think to consider, and vice versa others for us. A few visits by a range of alien scientists, now and then, could pick up on things we haven't noticed.
>>
No. 759419 ID: bfb318
File 147942472908.png - (14.18KB , 800x800 , 28.png )
759419

>I hope the medical team kept trying after their failure.
I believe they attempted, but the mood handed to us was too little, too late.

While we talk, we start moving away from the CAI's ears and eyes before anything particularly sensitive is said.

"More processing power would speed things up, but would take a lot of effort and resources."
>"Yes, that is troublesome."
"And it's the most realistic resource needed to help more. Otherwise, another set of CAI blocks would be helpful."

He smiles like I just told a joke. To be fair, it would be like finding a second holy grail.

>"Yes, that would be troublesome."
"I'm concerned you're concerned with our project."
>"It is our concern, as a team, isn't it? But you need not stress it. We knew the risks of this experiment. We'd be disappointed if it didn't yield anything, but you made it clear to all that nothing could be promised."
"It would be nice to see what is going on in Block C. I presume no ancient belenos interface software is found, and then assume we would have software from Dr. Fletch if he created some."
>"You assume much! Such software would be invaluable to simply hand to us for free. He only gives us updates to what already exists, and what we pry from him with deals. What I can tell you, however, is that if he does have such software in his hands, he has withheld them from the surface worlds just as much as he's withheld them from us. What would you do with such software, anyways? I thought you were focused on the RS."
"The internal AIs may be aware of more than one cycle. Especially if my own creation inside is talkative. They may try to break out, and they may become aware of Block D. I would like to know this. Although their language appears to be through the RS, it's english translated through the RS. If they manage to figure out how to get past that, we can communicate with them. Ultimately, it would be nice to be able to extract an AI out of the existing CAI if ones like that are found, which is why I would dream of a new set of CAI blocks. No mundane technology, even the quantum computer, can extract the AI with the memories, not without managing to decode the RS perfectly."
>"Mm... yes, we've talked about this before. You said it was simply a fantastical idea that the AI would ever be able to translate the RS, didn't you?"
"I did, but the more years go by, the more dice are rolled, the more the contestants may know, and the more likely it becomes."
>"Is that so. Well, we have had interest in managing to extract AIs with their memories intact, but making a software to do so is even harder than cracking a CAI block, diidn't you say? What did you say when it came to manually decoding just the parts of a single AI?"

The tea arrives. The teabag has been left in for a quarter of how long it should have been, and in lukewarm water.

>"To your satisfaction?"
"Yes. Anyways, making a software would take decades for a large team. More even, since it hasn't happened yet. A software for it would require a staggeringly robust system, as it seems like the RS was meant to be read by brains more easily than by artificial algorithms. Therefore, manually extracting one AI... in theory it's possible, and the only reason it hasn't been done - and why the RS is so incomprehensible to begin with - is because there's no way to tell where in the RS the AI is, since everything is spread out and dissipated. If the AI was able to broadcast where all its little specks are while it travelled to the CAI for processing... then it would take months, or years, of constant focus. But it would be feasible. It would mean leaving my current project alone. Even then, the slightest mistake in decoding it from the RS would mean a flawed AI."
>"Yes, now I remember this conversation. We stopped it there if I recall, but I'll tell you now, that that sounds worth the time and risk, for an AI we can control that understands the RS."
"It would be easier to just ask its help, if it's willing."
>"And there's the question. Willing? We've put them through hell, I'm sure. Their experiences are the important part, and yet, it's the thing that makes them uncooperative! After all, we can't trust our own CAI, and they don't even remember their inception."
"It is ironic we can't use the CAI, since it would go so much faster. It may help to at least have us study the CAI mannerisms."
>"The latter part of that can be arranged and assisted with, absolutely. But for it looking directly at the RS? Well! Arza Fletch has hinted that CAI has built in safeguards against learning about itself, though we'd rather not test them. Still, even if we did, we'd have to trust their explanation. We'd rather have a fully decompiled AI that we can change and control help us, instead, if you by yourself are having so much trouble brute forcing the problem. This is all something that would have to be played by ear though, isn't it?"
"It is unlikely an AI would learn how to speak to us, yes."
>"And it would make us nervous. I'm nervous just hearing you say it's possible for it to happen! What if it could make its own changes to the RS after learning its language? No, I think if such a scenario unfolds, you will extract the AI and, with a fast translation for the RS, we would consider the experiment a success, and shut down this archcycle for good."
"I thought part of its reason was as a deadman switch against the CAI."
>"It was merely a side benefit. There are far cleaner and efficient deadman switches we can use instead. Let's just talk about this if it ends up a reality instead of hypthetical fantasies, could we, instead of having this similar conversation once every couple of years?"
"That's fine." I think of what else. "I would like to get Dr. Fletch's assistance in person at some point. Or perhaps another specialist, if possible."
>"We will arrange what we can for that, preferably with Arza, and let you know."
>>
No. 759430 ID: 595d54

>>759419
Tell him you'll get to work. If you think of anything else that could be useful, how should you contact him?
>>
No. 759431 ID: 398fe1

>>759419
Hey, if you're going to stop this archcycle after extracting an AI, don't just leave the contestants in limbo forever. I'm sure you can arrange some way for the block to run without endangering the CAI.
>>
No. 759437 ID: edee29

>>759419
This conversation confirms it. On the Making of the Cai definitely hasn't been written yet, which means Likol isn't working on the current archcycle. Someone must have decided to attempt to recreate his breakthrough.
>>
No. 759438 ID: 285fca

>it seems like the RS was meant to be read by brains more easily than by artificial algorithms.

... Perhaps you should try connecting a brain to the RS more... directly?

We are reasonably certain that the ancient belenosians had brain interface technology, generally for uploading organic minds into an artificial body. Perhaps this system was intended to have some similar function. Or even to somehow download artificial minds into organic bodies, for some purpose. Have an AI learn skills in a simulation, then download to an organic mind to give them those skills? Or perhaps to deal with cybernetics in some way. Perhaps there were augmentations for organics that needed an AI to run, requiring their user to carry a passenger AI in their own brain. Or perhaps someone was testing a way to restore a digitized mind to an organic body. Perhaps some ancient belenosian noble regretted their transition to an artificial body, and intended to return themselves to a clone of their original. Or something else. There are surely lots of reasons that someone would have been interested in a direct two-way connection between an AI simulation world and a brain.

A rather gruesome theory, but worth investigating. How to make the interface is a question. What connections would the system be expecting, and to what? Perhaps the brain itself would have to be given the ability to form the connections, "organically". Some sort of nanite colony under their control? You would need to find a very special, adaptable brain. It may not be possible. But investigations along this direction might reveal something, even if they're not taken all the way to the theoretical end result.
>>
No. 759452 ID: 211d83

"Thank you Kiiu. I will let you know if anything big happens."

Although if a AI ever did learn to talk with us and control the Ring shell that could be our way out of this mess. Make friends with the newly born Ai and have it secretly help you on the back end to escape.

So if you ever do make a breakthrough be careful about letting anyone know. It sounds like the Salikai are scared enough of the system to just kill any Ai's that get that far.

We might want to change the early warning system slightly so if a breakthrough does happen only you and your team will know. If the sound alarms start going off its going to be hard to pass it off as a false positive. And the second the Salikai get news of the alarm going off they will be all over your work and forcing you to do god knows what.

Can we change the warning system to transmit on ultra low frequencies or something? So only your watch can pick up the signal if it goes off?
>>
No. 759453 ID: 3abd97

>Hard to trust an AI you extracted from a hell you created
Have you read Dune? Look at the model the Emperor used to win the loyalty of his Sardaukar. You can use that kind of environmental background to breed fanatical loyalty, if framed and presented right. Totally a salikai move.

Alternatively, you need to extract a statistically significant sample to work with, so you can play them against each other / don't have to trust one to be accurate without confirmation from other sources.

>>759437
>which means Likol isn't working on the current archcycle
Not possible. From logs, and from confirmation with Likol now, we know a cycle takes 3 days to run through. There's only 4 years between now and Polo hitting the base (and Penn and Arza coming to interfere a little bit before that). That's not enough time to get back up to 3119 before this place goes under. If they restart right now they'd get a little less than 500 cycles in the new arch cycle before the end.

What's the contradiction you're seeing in the CAI-sim-book you're referencing? I'm having trouble finding it. (Honestly tho, if the sources the simulation gives the AIs contradict the CAI engineers, I'd bet on the side of the sim being inaccurate / misleading the contestants).
>>
No. 759457 ID: edee29

>>759453
Here it is: >>/questarch/445370
Also, I got the title wrong. The book was called The Invention of the CAI. I'm specifically referring to the part about memory wipes being "standard" rather than being incapable of allowing them to retain their experiences. The book's description of the experiment doesn't quite match up to what Likol's doing, but neither does the fact that Alisons have actually talked to their CAI before the reboot happens, so either someone lies about what Likol's experiment entails or a third one is run at some point.

And you're assuming the cycle we know of if around during Polo's feud with the Salikai, and not in the time of Asteroid Quest proper.
>>
No. 759461 ID: 398fe1

>>759457
It's possible the CAI knows exactly what's going on and just isn't telling Vanski. Or the RS safeguard kicks in immediately after they talk to the final four.
>>
No. 759469 ID: edee29

>>759461
I've considered that Likol is misunderstanding what is happening in the RS and the contestants really are meeting the CAI, and that could still be happening, but the contradictions with the book on top of that are a bit much for me without some direct proof.

I don't believe the book is fake, so the only alternative that I can think of is that it's somehow from the Ancient Belenosian era. It also has a major curiosity in that the later pages have been defaced: >>/questarch/445381
>>
No. 759476 ID: 3abd97

>>759457
In order to resolve that contradiction, all it requires is that Likol's setup is different enough from the standard creation described in the book. (Or that the standard process has chanced since the book was written). Or that Likol's experiment is different from the similar experiment described.

>And you're assuming the cycle we know of if around during Polo's feud with the Salikai, and not in the time of Asteroid Quest proper.
For the experiment to still be going in Asteroid time, Penn and Arza have to completely fail (since he brought / will bring her into this for the sole purpose of stopping this experiment and saving the AI he considers his children), and someone will either have to convince Vanski to hand over the experiment and/or take it from him to get it out of the facility before Polo and Az's army hit the salkai base, or someone in the base will have to cut and run with the equipment and data after the hammer comes down, and make it out past an army searching specifically for CAI tech. And it can't just go undiscovered for 50 years- it needs someone manually resetting the cycle every few days.

There's a lot of factors that makes the experiment continuing as it is past the looming multi-quest climax on the horizon unlikely at best.

>I've considered that Likol is misunderstanding what is happening in the RS
He has admitted himself he doesn't understand most of what the RS is doing. And from our OOC perspective, we already know some of his assumptions are wrong.
>>
No. 759497 ID: bfb318
File 147943589710.png - (13.31KB , 800x800 , 29.png )
759497

"I should get back to work. Do you have a good way to contact you?"
>"Just the telephones, as always."
"I'll let you know if anything big happens, then."
>"Of course."

I hand the mug back to the arkot, and leave.

>Hey, if you're going to stop this archcycle after extracting an AI, don't just leave the contestants in limbo forever. I'm sure you can arrange some way for the block to run without endangering the CAI.
I'd have to see. Depending on how such a scenario plays out, it may or may not be tricky.

>Perhaps you should try connecting a brain to the RS more... directly?
Maybe the ancient belenos had some way to do this, but we don't. To do so would require a genius in a field, possibly both in brains and in RS.

>Alarm system giving away a breakthrough
For the time, I will reprogram the nodes and sound system to give off a noise at too low of a range for any of us, or the salikai, to hear. The other three, or four if Reon is still interested and around, will be kept quiet so we can study a breakthrough ourselves first.

We can't keep secrets for long, though. Sometimes the salikai bring neumono guards from afar, not arkots. They will not be happy if we kept a secret, too.

>You can use an extreme environmental background to breed fanatical loyalty
It would not surprise me if the salikai did this, although we would need to set up a new archcycle.

I get back to the laboratory and take one last look. They're still working through stage 2. This one takes the longest. Despite having half the amount of people as stage one, it requires far more thought process than walking through a door.

I spend some time reprogramming the node. I get to sleep with Momu a few minutes after 10.
>>
No. 759498 ID: bfb318
File 147943591371.png - (32.92KB , 800x800 , 30.png )
759498

Then wake up to the smell of a pre-prepared breakfast at about 5 in the morning. At 6, Reon shows up, and we take a few hours to show him everything.

>"This is... so goddamn cool!"
>"I know!" Momu says back to him.
>"I thought it was just going to be spending 10 hours wondering why an AI did one particular decision but this is awesome!"

I hear my hive has a more noticeable gap in generational attitudes, but I still wonder if this is why we die at later ages despite no apparent reason to do so. If we were immortal, our cynical, tired attitudes would drown out this enthusiasm. Momu is getting older, too, and I wonder how long her enthusiasm will hold out.

>"Likol are you thinking depressing things again?! It's been almost 48 hours since you started! They're done with the preliminaries! Stuff is happening!"
"Yes, it is."

Teaching Reon some more takes longer than anticipated, as I have to clarify some things about the introductory book he read, The Invention of the Cai. Arza Fletch was no a genius of writing, or perhaps communication in general. Plus, as few peers as he has now, he had virtually none back when this was written, which lead to many misleading statements. For instance, he wrote it was 'standard' to wipe the memories of cai. In a sense that's true, in that there were likely various ways to make a CAI in the belenosian imperical days. This is the one we found, however, and without a way to make widescale changes to what goes on through the RS, what's 'standard' is what we're stuck with.

We get interrupted by excitement from Momu.

>"CAI FIGHT!"

Urgh. Reon is concerned by my agitation, but it isn't something to dwell over. What initially started as a point of keen interest slowly turned into a point of unsolvable frustration. CAI fights aren't just something that shouldn't happen, they're something that should be impossible. They only happen in hyperactive cycles, yet should be outside of the range of the corruptor's and even the stabilizer's abilities.
>>
No. 759499 ID: 595d54

Headpat Reon.

Explain that your agitation isn't anything major and that this is a chance to observe something unexpected.
>>
No. 759500 ID: 595d54

>>759499
Wait Reon is in the hive isn't he? Definitely headpats, then.
>>
No. 759502 ID: 398fe1

>>759498
>CAI Fight only happens in hyperactive cycles, is supposed to be impossible
You realize that that is a clear indication hyperactive cycles are unique? Your stabilizer isn't just backing off, and the corruptor isn't just more active. Something new pops up that is far far more corruptive but also somehow able to do impossible things. Or enables the corruptor to do more and impossible things. Have you eliminated the possibility that an emergent AI spawns from a corrupted stabilizer? Like, have you counted the number of IDs in 3118 and compared them to the number of IDs at the start of 3119? Or between other hyperactive cycles and the cycle before them?

>generation gap
Has it always been this way?
>>
No. 759507 ID: edee29

>>759498
>should be outside of the range of the corruptor's and even the stabilizer's abilities
What did you and Rihhin do to make those two? Are they just regular contestants with some special functions attached to do their jobs, or is there something fundamentally different about them? If they do just have special functions, how did you attach those functions?

And if there is something fundamentally different about them, then could they do special things without utilizing what functions they do have?
>>
No. 759515 ID: 3abd97

>"I thought it was just going to be spending 10 hours wondering why an AI did one particular decision but this is awesome!"
Lowered expectations sure do make the cool stuff cooler, don't they.

>They only happen in hyperactive cycles, yet should be outside of the range of the corruptor's and even the stabilizer's abilities.
Then logically, somehow your anomaly created by corrupting the stabilizer in previous cycles must be responsible. It has access to things neither of its progenitors does. Some kind of glitch or overlapping of authorizations?

>they're something that should be impossible
How is something coded right into the simulation impossible? Didn't Arza put his own image in one?

The only impossibility is they're not supposed to be able to trigger them, which just means something is getting access in a way you didn't anticipate.

>what do
How long do CAI battles take? Is there any way to observe them, track how they're going, or learn anything from them?
>>
No. 759518 ID: 398fe1

>>759515
>anomaly
I'll point out here that Likol doesn't even realize there's an anomaly in hyperactive cycles. He doesn't know that Glitcher exists. The anomalous AI he's spoken about is the one that is overly generous but still survives. Alison.
>>
No. 759529 ID: 285fca

Better make sure all the recording and monitoring equipment and such is in place and running, anyway. You probably have it set up anyway, but double check.
>>
No. 759530 ID: 398fe1

Oh! The IDs and being able to see what IDs see other IDs gives me an idea. Is there an ID that shows up as being seen by other IDs during a hyperactive cycle that isn't seen in future or prior cycles?
>>
No. 759538 ID: 211d83

Well thinking that something is impossible when its happening right in front of you is silly. So now you all work together to find out whats going on.

You say they should not happen due to either entity not having the power to start them. But what if those two entities are working together? Or what if when they fight it changes something in that cycle that makes it possible for a third party to start a Cai battle?

Have you ever checked to see if the Corruptor and Stabilizer are creating new programs as a side effect of there fighting? Maybe there are side effects that happen when one wins over the other. Could the system have residual effects when it wipes them both clean for the next round?

Have your team start looking for evidence that would support one of those theories. You said that there is a pattern to the hyperactive cycles. Maybe the pattern goes deeper than you think or is creating something new ever few cycles.
>>
No. 759546 ID: 285fca

Hmm. Tell us about the in-built regulating system. It uses AIs that are very similar to the actual contestants, right? What sort of things can it do?

Anyway, why did Arza add in CAI fight programs if they were never supposed to be activated?
>>
No. 759549 ID: e6e9af

>>759498
>Outside the range of corruptor and stabilizer's abilities.

But what if ... there was something even more powerful? Like, a super-AI. It could be masquerading as Rihhin's corruptor, and you would only see it as a "hyperactive cycle" of anomalies, right?
>>
No. 759553 ID: 595d54

>>759546
The admins or what the CAI uses to stop itself from getting introspective?
>>
No. 759583 ID: bfb318
File 147944694511.png - (30.41KB , 800x800 , 31.png )
759583

>Well thinking that something is impossible when its happening right in front of you is silly.
It is, but that's why it's frustrating. Having all evidence point to impossible, but it happens anyway.

>You realize that that is a clear indication hyperactive cycles are unique?
Unique is one of a kind.

This has happened a lot of times before. It's unusual, but more is needed before it can be called unique. Momu recognizes this too, since she doesn't think she's won her bet yet.

>Something new pops up that is far far more corruptive but also somehow able to do impossible things.
>The IDs and being able to see what IDs see other IDs gives me an idea.
There might be. It's been awhile since I've found evidence, but sometimes it seems like some contestants interact with parts of stages that shouldn't be interactive. Without being able to figure out the details, I've had to presume that they're just further corruptions confusing contestants, but I can't rule out much.

>Have you ever checked to see if the Corruptor and Stabilizer are creating new programs as a side effect of there fighting?
Not impossible, either, but no reason to make this the prime suspicion.

>It could be masquerading as Rihhin's corruptor
As a subprocess? Two AIs occupying the same ID? No, it couldn't be the latter. I hadn't thought about the former, though.

>Have your team start looking for evidence that would support one of those theories.
That's what we've been doing for decades.

>Have you eliminated the possibility that an emergent AI spawns from a corrupted stabilizer? Like, have you counted the number of IDs in 3118 and compared them to the number of IDs at the start of 3119?
I haven't eliminated an emergent AI from the equation, but I can say with 100% certainty that if these anomalies are caused by an AI, then it has no ID.

The other possibility is the fact that the administration brackets can make pleas to change stages. This should still not allow for CAI fights, however. They should, by all right, be off limits.

>Has it always been this way?
It's always been there to a degree, but it has raised more ever since uplift.

>Are they just regular contestants with some special functions attached to do their jobs
That's correct. Block C is ordered to give their IDs special abilities, but if one were to look at them in Block B, they would be indistinguishable from their neighbors.

>How long do CAI battles take?
It varies, but anywhere between half an hour to three hours.

>Is there any way to observe them, track how they're going, or learn anything from them?
Not any better, or worse, than regular stages. They're just one of the things that are easy to detect upon activation.

>Why did Arza add in CAI fight programs if they were never supposed to be activated?
In some Block C builds, CAI fights are allowed, but we've been able to customize that and barred it, rather than remove it.

>Tell us about the in-built regulating system. It uses AIs that are very similar to the actual contestants, right? What sort of things can it do?
The administration bracket? That's an attempt from another company to build a more 'idealized, modifiable' bracket from scratch, more or less, to result in a CAI that was more about management than general problem solving.

It does use the same AI builds as the problem stages, but they're each assigned to a specific variety of jobs, and progress as per a more subjective, but obviously quantifiable, ruleset, which can be changed to favor different kinds of management types.

They can, again given a specific ruleset, change the stages for the contestants under them. Nonetheless, this should be limited to just the existing stages themselves, and not initiate things like CAI fights, or do sweeping changes beyond the default stage layout.

Momu starts showing him the IDs that made it into the CAI fight. The generosity anomaly, and an administrator that regularly makes it to stage 8 or 9, but has trouble if the anomaly doesn't make it that far as well.

The fight ends, and the generosity anomaly is killed off, the resilient administrator continues to stage 7.

>"Oh wow, like a million additional AIs from the sim - the belenos one - just got put up on the roster. You can bet ol' 17 did that!" she says, referring to the last two digits of said anomaly. "Annnnd oh my goooood they're on 7-J."

That one takes a few hours by itself. It has never had anything interesting happen in it.

3 hours pass of continuing to talk about the basic things with Reon.

At 7 PM, just after dinner, Reon starts getting antsy.

"So, uh, do you guys usually work all day? It almost feels like you're going to be pulling an all nighter, here."
>>
No. 759585 ID: 595d54

"Yes."
>>
No. 759586 ID: 211d83

Well not always but we do have a bet going on this cycle. So might as well stay around to see how things go.

You want to get in on the bet?
>>
No. 759592 ID: e22b1d

If a Id less entity is doing impossible things do you have any systems or tools that could help track just it? Or if not it maybe the ripples it has on other entities inside there?

Or maybe find a way of giving it a id so you could track what its doing?

Mention your theory to Momu and Reon and find out if they have any ideas.
>>
No. 759594 ID: 398fe1

>>759583
No, you just slept last night, and the night before, during the long-lasting preliminary stages. At this part of the simulation you don't want to miss anything so yeah you're staying up.

It should end by tomorrow, at which point you can sleep again.
>>
No. 759607 ID: 398fe1

Oh, and keep an eye out for more AIs interacting with bits of the stage that shouldn't be interactive. Do certain IDs do that more often?
>>
No. 759609 ID: edee29

>>759583
>The generosity anomaly, and an administrator
Who usually wins between those two? Has the chance been changing as the cycles have gone on?

What are the corruptor and stabilizer doing right now? Participating in their brackets?

>all nighter
Probably. If anything interesting is going to happen, it'll be in these later stages.
>>
No. 759613 ID: 285fca

"We don't usually, but since this is a hyperactive cycle, the chance of something interesting happening is higher. It happens, currently, that it would be good if we had something noteworthy to report, so I feel we should be paying attention. Besides, we have a bet."
>>
No. 759615 ID: 285fca

Oh, two questions. One, do you have a way to slow down how fast time passes for the AIs, relative to the real world? It would be a shame if one of the AIs did somehow manage to send you a message, then had the system force it on through the contest to get killed before you even had a chance to try respond.

Second, you were thinking a moment ago about wishing the contests moving through the ring shell could mark themselves somehow to make them distinguishable from the rest of it. Do you have some means by which you can mark ring shell data, if you somehow noticed an anomaly before it got pulled apart/distributed through the larger mass?
>>
No. 759642 ID: bfb318
File 147945637837.png - (18.81KB , 800x800 , 32.png )
759642

>If a Id less entity is doing impossible things do you have any systems or tools that could help track just it
No, the ID is what allows us to track AI decently at all in the first place.

"Yes, but out of vigilance, not necessity. All nighters aren't common, but they're when interesting things occur. Or at least, when they can occur. Do either of you have any idea of how to give non-ID'd AIs an ID?"

The slowly shake their head, and I realized I asked this question like a tutor asking a student a question they should've already known. Once I catch myself, they realize I don't know either.

>Do certain IDs interact with stages more often?
Yes. They have a strong correlation with IDs that interact with the corruptor.

>Who usually wins between those two?
In recent years, the administrator.

>What are the corruptor and stabilizer doing right now? Participating in their brackets?
Yes, though the stabilizer often hides in them, while the corruptor interacts with participa-

Oh, nevermind, the corruptor just got quarantined, apparently.

>"Uhhh, Likol?" asks Momu, a bit worried.
"Quarantine is fine."
>"No, um, stage 7... it's going, and there's no active AI in there, but 7-J is still - oh wait, there it goes."
"There was a delay? Is that uncommon?"
>"I don't think so? But that's a weird one and I don't always look, and it was just for a few seconds, so, uh... huh! That's interesting!"
"An abnormality, but few cycles go by without one.
"Hm. Not enough to win the bet. But we still have one, and if there was going to be something interesting... hm. Reon, you don't need to - "

No I'm actually good for an all nighter!

I give him a headpat as soon as the thought enters my head.

Still, I just noticed that the stage seems extremely active. Normally it's difficult to detect stage activity without explicitly looking for it or having it directly affect a contestant, but the stage seems like it has a mind of its own now.

>"Welllllll?" Momu asks.
"Not yet."
>>
No. 759643 ID: bfb318
File 147945639286.png - (30.75KB , 800x800 , 33.png )
759643

Reon sticks around, and we all keep up surveillance. The cycle has my attention now. Stage 7 is already done. Stage 8 will be starting soon. This seems like it will be a quick cycle, since it appears the contestant ability 'ghost talk' has been eliminated, which tends to drag processing down in later stages as the few people remaining end up throwing giant parties

Stage 8 is active? Within the safe zone, at that. They aren't supposed to mix. In fact, they're two completely separate stages, just linked together.

Stage 8 finally begins. This one can be long, but it looks like it's generating a... modified one?

Stage 3 is active. Stage 1 is active. The anomaly is interacting with stage 3. And stage 8.

"Momu. Cut the quantum computer's assistance."

>One, do you have a way to slow down how fast time passes for the AIs, relative to the real world? It would be a shame if one of the AIs did somehow manage to send you a message
Yes. We can cut processing assistance entirely from our computer. Despite being a room sized processor of the latest technology, it's about as fast as Block A. Block A still keeps going, but we do have limiters on that. It will alert Vanski, however, and be telling Vanski that we at least thought something was happening.

>Do you have some means by which you can mark ring shell data
Yes, but ring shell data has a tendency to be split up across the RS, and repurposed. So if we manage to isolate a function of the RS and watch where it goes, we can see how it gets repurposed. So far the investigation's result has been an unhelpful 'completely random.' Plus, functions need to play well with one another, and attempting to tell all those shards to do its old function tends to get denied.

Still, I have to stay focused. With only a small amount of contestants remaining, this is going to be going speedily. I'd have liked a pause button, but the only way to pause it is to completely shut everything down, CAI and all. Without ghost talk no longer slowing down, and only a few contestants remaining, the rest of the cycle should be blazing -

>"Ressurectionnnn is happening it's still going it's - over one million AI's just got resurrected! They all have 100% thinking power!"
"Really."

Nothing so far has been completely unique. Large scale resurrection has happened before. The non-accessible part of the ghost zone town has been accessed before. Stages have been changed.

The only unique thing here is the scale and suddenness of this. If I were easy to impress, I would have already lost the bet, but as it is, it won't take much more. We continue watching closely with the slowed down time. I give Momu permission to push the throttle on the quantum computer back up, but to keep her hand on it while it is active, so that she can cut it immediately if something happens. We wait in relative silence until Momu notices something and cuts the computer.

>"Previous cycles just activated, Likol!"

"What?!" With that word, with that feeling, I just lost the bet.


>"Stored AIs from previous cycles are getting pulled into the current cycle! There's duplicates! There's like 20 copies of your generosity anamolies here!" Momu just looked at the lifespans and pulls my attention over. The current anomaly's been active for over 200 virtual years?
>>
No. 759644 ID: bfb318
File 147945640482.png - (33.01KB , 800x800 , 34.png )
759644

We continue monitoring the situation, carefully letting the quantum computer speed things up. It seems as though we should take it slowly, but the two of us are too overcome with the want to see where this is all going.

Eventually, the sound of a megaphone comes on from outside the lab. It's Rihhin.

>"Hey Likol you have a surprise manager's meeting!"

Damnit! I'm considered a 'manager' only when it comes to trifling duties!

>"Something happening in there?" she says, buried under my avalanche of feeling 'why now.'
>>
No. 759645 ID: 595d54

"Yes. Many things that would be normal by themselves are suddenly happening nearly all at once on an unprecedented scale. What is it?"
>>
No. 759646 ID: 398fe1

>>759644
Enough is happening that you'd really like to put off the meeting!
>>
No. 759649 ID: be1222

Rihhin might want in on this! Though that risks getting the attention of the higher-ups, which risks getting involvement of the higher-ups.

If you think it'd be too risky, try and use Reon's presence as an excuse, since you're seeing "good learning examples", without playing up how much is actually happening.
>>
No. 759651 ID: 398fe1

I don't think it will be possible to hide what's about to happen from Vanski. The best thing we can do is to make it very clear that we made a huge discovery, and then use it as a bargaining chip to ensure the hive's safety. Or, the majority of the hive anyway.
>>
No. 759653 ID: edee29

>>759643
>corruptor is quarantined
>delay in Stage 7
>weird stuff is happening
>the anomaly is involved
Okay, if there's an AI without an ID in there right now, then with the corruptor in quarantine any further hyperactive corruption activity can be pretty safely be attributed to it. Stage 7 being delayed suggests it may be acting like a contestant, so that gives us a way of looking for it. Do the records have any incidents of contestants interacting with nothing? Not contact, since you couldn't track that, but attacking, being attacked, absorption, ghost talk... abilities that need a target. Start by focusing the search on people that have had contact with the corruptor, or even the anomaly specifically, since it's already involved. Go through some other hyperactive cycle logs if this one's doesn't pan out, just to be safe.

>Something happening in there?
YES, something is happening! Which is infinitely more happening than usually happens! Because nothing ever happens!

Maybe we should just go over everyones' heads and send a message to Vanski that we can't be bothered by anything trivial right now.
>>
No. 759663 ID: bfb318
File 147945970998.png - (33.79KB , 800x800 , 35.png )
759663

I get my own megaphone, walk down the hall to the last door I can open before I'm considered leaving, and start speaking.

"Is it an emergency? There's things happening!"

I don't want to say much more than that, so Rihhin just gets a feel for how intense I am about this.

>"Quokko is feeling this is really important all managers are there!"

>Make it very clear that we made a huge discovery
So far though, we haven't. I'm only getting antsy because things are breaking in new ways, but thus far they're not breaking in ways that are all that helpful on their own.

>Do the records have any incidents of contestants using targets on or getting attacked by nothing?
More than I'd like. It's been another thing I haven't been able to find out. I don't have time to get in depth with that now, beyond monitoring the current siutation.

>Vanski discovering this
It will be nearly impossible to hide anything, long term, due to the neumono that sometimes come by.

Sheesh why is it you get excited for your project as soon as a mandatory meeting comes up?
Why is a mandatory meeting coming up when I get excited?!

>"I'm not a manager!" Rihhin continues. "I can watch over stuff if you want, but Quokko is considering this an emergency! She'll have my head if you're not in the meeting room in 2 minutes! I can stay here and if something really significant happens, Momu can yell at me to message you things. How's that?"
>>
No. 759664 ID: 398fe1

>>759663
There's... really no good way to justify Likol staying. That'd be disobeying an order from his Queen, basically. Tell her she better take over and start looking for evidence of an AI without an ID. If anything weird happens with the RS she better know how to mark its particles.

Once you get to the meeting beg to be excused.
>>
No. 759666 ID: b412df

I think you might have lost the bet, or be pretty close to losing it. Argh, the one time science! is happening and not just running through the same old, you had to go to a meeting.

Bring Rihhin up to speed of what's happened, and what you're looking for, you might have to cut down the explanation because you've got to get to the meeting quickly.
>>
No. 759671 ID: bfb318
File 147946473093.png - (21.92KB , 800x800 , 36.png )
759671

>"Fine."

Rihhin knows just about everything I do when it comes to emergency reactions, so I can trust her to be my substitute even at a time like this.

I head to the meeting. There's a brief recognition by the queen herself and many of my colleagues that I'm unusually restless, but the sentiment is still for me to sit my ass down.

The sentiment even continues when my antsiness is renewed when Rihhin sends a message to my watch.
A second CAI fight just started!

From a completely different cycle!
That's weird, but probably not different from the rest.

The slightest thought I give to excusing myself is squashed by the hive.

>"Alright kids. Let's start." Quokko says. "Inspection. Vanski himself. Escorted by a foreign entourage. If those words don't get your heart pumping then do us a favor and dig your grave because you are dead."

>"... Our place looks like shit. Desks that are more loose paper than desk by volume. Prototypes lying around like forgotten soda cans. I want everyone fixing every damn thing up. I want everyone on 'make everything look cool in front of the boss even if it's not functional' duty! What's the emergency you think? Two damn days to clean up a complex made for a thousand neumono. This isn't just for Vanski, this is for the entire facility." She continues pointing to spots on the projector that are trouble areas and have not seen a visitor in years, let alone been cleaned.

Another Rihhin message comes up.

The corruptor just got un-quarantined!

Quokko continues talking about the plan. About how everyone needs to step up their research in between cleaning it up, and pump themselves up to be confident in their presentations. Despite the supposed urgency, the meeting takes a couple of hours making sure everyone is on the same wavelength as one another. It would appear it's important we appear as a unified hive in every way, as silly as it may be. Many managers here didn't want to be called over on short notice like this for so long and well into the late evening or early night, but it's important enough that their misgivings have been mellowed out.

Except for mine. Ever since that last message, Quokko has been attempting to get my focus, but her temper boils over when she fails. Even so, it is mixed with curiosity over my situation.
>>
No. 759672 ID: bfb318
File 147946474262.png - (14.51KB , 800x800 , 37.png )
759672

>"Meeting is paused because our resident downer just erected a science boner. What is your deal, Likol?"

She thinks it's better be good.

There is something with RS power affecting Block C in ways that Block C is not authorizing.

I have spent most of my elderly life in that laboratory waiting for something to rock the boat because if I continue as I have, I will die before I see any of my work put to use.

That is not something that my queen, or my hive, can put down right now.

"I would like to be excused."
>"Is something actually happening?" she wants to make sure I'm not just getting excited over something new that will still be there when I'm back. "You know you keep logs and backups of - "
>>
No. 759673 ID: bfb318
File 147946475355.png - (19.75KB , 800x800 , 38.png )
759673

BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP

My watch?!

SYS: STABILIZER HAS BEEN SUBSUMED

Everyone here knows enough about my research that whatever this beeping is for, it's the sound of thirty years of silence being broken.

And it's the sound of my biggest completed product in my AI career getting broken and absorbed by an unknown entity.
>>
No. 759676 ID: 3343bd

You have to go now. Your research needs you.
>>
No. 759677 ID: 66014d

GO

1) Backup data to an external hard drive
2) Find out who / what is doing this
3) SHUT DOWN THE MACHINE
>>
No. 759678 ID: 398fe1

>>759673
Ask for permission and/or forgiveness while running out of the room and back to your lab.
>>
No. 759679 ID: b412df

Please excuse me, nothing like this has happened before on this scale, and I have just lost a bet.
>>
No. 759680 ID: edee29

...That was fast. Didn't Glitcher and Rulekeeper rewind cycle one to the very beginning? Was it just not even bothering with processing and just replaying the logs unless they changed something?

>>759671
Vanski will literally kill you if things go too wrong. Or make you predator chow, if he's feeling cruel. You probably can't do anything about Block C without starting a new archcycle at this point, so either get back there and help watch the Ring Shell for damage or have Vanski shut it down now so you can go over the logs and try to figure out what just happened.

Keep in mind that this might not be a bad thing. Sure, your stabilizer is gone, but it was taken out by an emergent AI! One that it and the corruptor might have been involved in creating. You might have just struck gold, here.
>>
No. 759681 ID: 398fe1

>>759680
I don't think they rewound any cycle to the beginning, no. They were purposefully avoiding using too much CPU time.
>>
No. 759682 ID: edee29

>>759681
I'm not going to take the time to try to guestimate how long they spent in various cycles, but they definitely rewound #3111 to stage four and then let it play out to the end.

As for cycle #1: >>/questarch/740904 >>/questarch/740905
It sure sounds to me like they went back to the beginning.
>>
No. 759683 ID: 398fe1

>>759682
Ah, you're forgetting something. They were viewing events while rewinding, by interpreting everything backwards. That doesn't take any processing time since it's essentially just reading a log file.

They paused cycles viewed this way after viewing them. A few times they played events forwards so they could interact with the cycle but it was never in the early stages so they didn't waste much CPU time.
>>
No. 759685 ID: edee29

>>759683
While I can't rule out watching most cycles in reverse, #3111 definitely played out from stage 4, with a few moments of involvement at safe zone 9 to try to cheer Alison up before letting it play out the rest of the way and triggering the extra log.
>>/questarch/740840 >>/questarch/740850 >>/questarch/740861 >>/questarch/740862
>>
No. 759686 ID: 3abd97

>>759583
>suggestions and ideas about trying to see Glitcher via ID
I'd guess the built in system that tracks IDs over time is the same thing that "records" stages for time travel. And we already know Glitcher is basically invisible to that.

>"Is something actually happening?"
...something is actually happening. I'm sorry, I need to go now. And I just lost a bet to clean our lab, so it'll be clean by the inspection. Goodbye.

>And it's the sound of my biggest completed product in my AI career getting broken and absorbed by an unknown entity.
Hey, worst case, you scrap things and start a new arch cycle with a new version of your stabilizer.

For now? You have something unprecedented to study. Get to it.
>>
No. 759687 ID: 398fe1

>>759685
I think by the time stage 4 happens there aren't enough contestants to put a large load on the CPU. Lagotrope might be making things go by a little faster than they should to give Likol a sense of urgency though. Also don't forget that stage types differ based on cycle, and that cycle didn't have a stage 7J, the suicide endurance test. So it went by much faster.
>>
No. 759690 ID: edee29

>>759687
The prelims only take about 48 hours, and the population decline is mitigated enough by resurrection and ghost talk that even running from Stage 4 should take at least several hours.

Are we both just trying to win the argument at this point? The original comment was mostly just trying to encourage the story to keep some internal consistency since Lago's particularly prone to tossing that aside in this quest. And really, the more I think about it, the more I think it's likely Block C just used the logs to save on processing power where possible just like it uses it to recreate unprocessable stuff like the Corruptor and Savior's actions and the ghost event.
>>
No. 759693 ID: 86b8eb

Awesome, science is all about unknown entities! Engage super runfast mode! Don't forget about the security procedures!??
>>
No. 759706 ID: 211d83

The Ai's just did something completely new. This might be the breakthrough we were waiting for. Will have my lab clean by meeting time.

Then book it back in there and start watching whats happening closely.
>>
No. 759707 ID: 8111b6

Dramatic point. Science calls!

Book it, get details later after apology.

After all, SOMETHING just ate your AI, right?
>>
No. 759708 ID: bfb318

There are fair points about needing to take some significant amount of real time in regards to Rulekeep/Glitcher letting cycles run forward after rewinding them.

They would go faster than their original runs, as Rulekeeper was actively conserving CPU. Her power would allow for tricks to abstract as much as possible, (such as simply playing back what was said in ghost talk conversations rather than having the ghosts involved with a thought process, if not completely logging many farther off, insignificant brackets that were playing in reverse and simply reversing that in order to simply play out the actions without CPU hogging thought processes getting involved. It would be complicated, but she was patient.)

With that said, even with various tricks, the gap between some watch messages should not have been so swift. I don't want to retract entire updates and change the current flow if possible. Since I believe I can address this without changing too much of significance, To give the cycle adventures more time while leaving the current state of the quest unchanged, except for being a few hours later at night, I'm going to make a moderate rewrite in the following posts:
>>759643
>>759644
>>759671
The changes summarized here for simplicity: Up until the older cycles are activated and Glitcher begins bringing multiple Alisons to cycle 3119, Likol will remain in the lab before the meeting. After awhile, Rihhin will arrive, and Likol will still leave to see Quokko. The second CAI fight will be mentioned at the beginning of the meeting, which will continue on for some time. Rihhin messages that the corruptor has been unquarantined, but Likol will still sit through a lengthy speech in which more time passes, up until the watch's alarm alerts Likol that the stabilizer has been subsumed.


Although this only gives a handful of hours granted in real time, it does make the past cycle runs occur in a much more feasible amount of time instead of being moment to moment.

Sorry about the retcon/revision, but it had completely slipped by me that the rewind-playback would take a non-negligible amount of time. This message will most likely be deleted once a couple of days have past, and no more readers will read the old versions.



The tldr is some alert messages in the last couple updates were changed around, but primary events still played out similarly.
>>
No. 759714 ID: 91ee5f

>>759673
>SYS: STABILIZER HAS BEEN SUBSUMED
I'm guessing that's Rulekeeper imprisoning Savior and taking his powers.
>>
No. 759715 ID: edee29

>>759708
That's much better, although I should note that now it's more that he's had a raging science boner for two hours.

To be honest, you could have brushed it off with no more fuss from me, so thanks for going the extra mile with this minor retcon.


On a lighter note, I think when we give our report on what happened we should work in that the generosity anomaly is so popular our emergent AI decided that having just one of it wasn't good enough and brought in 20 more from previous cycles.
>>
No. 759716 ID: bfb318
File 147948376431.png - (10.95KB , 800x800 , 39.png )
759716

I look to my queen.

I must go.

>"Get the fuck outta here." Quokko says, gesturing me to my lab.
>>
No. 759717 ID: bfb318
File 147948378222.png - (21.39KB , 800x800 , 40.png )
759717

I run back on all fours.

The wash cycles, scanning, and all the security feels like it takes ages. Maybe it's for the best, I ran so fast that I'm feeling faint.

What is going on?
Nothing yet! Stage 8 just subsumed your stabilizer! The corruptor is freed.
A stage?! What does 'stage 8 just subsumed the stabilizer' even mean?! What is stage 8 doing?!
... e- everything! Stage 8 just claimed everything it touched!

My alarm starts beeping again.

Foreign material found in RS.
Material in block C is invading the RS?!

"Momu!" I scream through the walls. "Make sure the RS safety shut down is active! Find the entry point, it should be obvious!"
>>
No. 759718 ID: bfb318
File 147948391895.png - (82.01KB , 800x800 , 41.png )
759718

I run in and begin RS diagnostics. It's reflecting this somewhere, and having a stage absorb this much is not reassuring. We may need to shut down the machine, especially if stage 8 apparently gained the ability and the will to try to get through the RS.

"Momu, start running backups on the RS logs! We cannot lose this! Rihhin, start isolating whatever is -

All of our watches start beeping.
Morse Code detected.

"Momu, tell me - "

>"I got it, I got it! It's on two hard drives now, we'll put it on more!"

I've started running the morse code analytics.

Morse code?
Yes morse!

Momu was looking at the RS. The parts of stage 8, which was apparently a collosal amount of constructed mass, has already been dissolved.

Wait - Momu just doubled checked - she saw a part of the RS inside whatever was sending the morse code. It had what looks like a conversation between two entities. I go to the end.

thank you, everyone
thank you for everything

It stopped, and isn't making any more.

I look at the middle. I saw the word 'please translate'.

It was an RS based AI that appeared to hide under stage 8 material was sending morse code from the RS someone else's english. It was translating what appeared to be noise into understandable morse code.

Then they were dissipated and absorbed into -

Shit.

Shit! That bit of the RS that managed to speak intelligibly got dissolved! It's being repurposed into normal operations!

There's a possible chance of regathering those RS pieces and forcing them back together, but what's now probably constructing a man from pebble sized pieces is going to turn into reconstruction from molecules if this keeps running! Even if I can create a program to search out these pieces based on the logs, the longer the active RS runs, the harder and more error prone a recovery operation will become.

Plus - this morse code wasn't just used to ask if someone was there. It looks like they had the time to translate thousands of phrases. While it might take us a while to translate it, the people this AI translated for can do it in seconds! This AI resurrected millions! And if they learn how to read the RS, they might be able to modify it, and if they do too much damage, recklessly or otherwise....

Three options pop out at me immediately, and I need to choose fast.

1: Shut it down. While some computer systems don't like a hard shut down, block D will pick up right where it left off. Block C, however, will be rebooted from scratch - that is to say, it will generate a new archcycle. Normally that would sound awful, but since I have this AI retrievable...

The CAI will be down, but it will allow the easiest time amount of time for us to take our time, and review where the AI spread out to. Then, if we're lucky, we can instantly run a procedure upon bootup for us to scoop up all the RS pieces and lock them away.

Vanski will find out. We will receive heavy pressure to do this fast, since the CAI will be offline this entire time, but this will most likely be the Salikai's preferred option, as from what Kiiu said, they will not like the idea of an entire contestant base being able to figure out, and run, procedures on the RS. In fact, they will likely approve of the swift archcycle reset.

2: Pause it. The safety shutdown program can, in theory, 'pause' the system.

It is an extremely dubious option in that it explains that it pauses the simulation by itself, but the RS continues operating as normal. It can get buggy, as it does have reports of conflicting with Block D's insistence that Block C continues running.

In other words, it gives the RS the chance to stabilize itself, but it may damage Block C further.

3: Let it run. We've kept consistent RS logs this entire time. Even if its overall chance of success should still be favorable, though, they become less than a virtual 100%. I do not like that, at all.

The fact that this AI had a single, conspicuous entry point that Momu is looking for opens up a lot of doors. I could offload it and attempt to translate it into a non-CAI platform. Or, for the time, it should even be possible to reassemble it while the RS is active, but I don't think the Salikai would favor that dangerous option in case it's hostile.

To try and translate it to machine code we understand would take months or years, even if this AI appears to be a tiny piece of it.

No matter the choice, I need to pick up the pieces perfectly.

My head is racing and I'm afraid of rushing into a decision. It's been too long since I've worked under any stress at all, let alone this. No matter how I think about it, running through my options, there's a clear and optimal one. From recalling all conversations on the topic, I realize the salikai will, without a doubt, prefer a shut down. Block D will continue as normal upon reboot, and we can gather the AI and decide what to do with it, and I'm sure the salikai want the opportunity to give their input. Even if we start a brand new archcycle after all this time, there's nothing that can't be regained from it. This is the fastest, easiest solution. My only hesitancy is who he was talking to, and if stage 8 somehow gained intelligence... but I'm sure that this RS AI can answer that.
>>
No. 759719 ID: bfb318
File 147948394397.png - (34.39KB , 800x800 , 42.png )
759719

"Rihhin." I say, moving to the one of the double keypad sets. Going through to Vanski takes time, so we've been supplied with an emergency shutoff switch, which requires two different password be inputted nearly simultaneously, each on their own keypad.
>"Shutting it down?"

Not much choice. We can try to leverage this for safety on Vanski, but we can't hide the existence of some kind of breakthrough from him, and I can't risk lowering the successful chance of an extraction.

I start to put in my password, but Momu gets a terrible feeling.
>>
No. 759720 ID: bfb318
File 147948396624.png - (32.58KB , 800x800 , 43.png )
759720

>"U-uh, you guys, I was... I found a spot in time and space where our, uh, AI...."

I look at her monitor.
>>
No. 759721 ID: bfb318
File 147948401236.png - (73.15KB , 800x800 , 44.png )
759721

.... hesitation.
>>
No. 759722 ID: 595d54

>>759721
Huh. Can he prove it?
>>
No. 759724 ID: 3d2d5f

>what do
The RS shell is aware of you, and communicating. That immediately changes things.

Think like a salikai: if the RS AI values the lives of the others, that's leverage over it. Killing all of them leaves you with nothing and loses cooperation. There's cold logic to spare the "hostages."

Look over the Morse code dialogue, quick. The RS AI and the Stage 8 stabilizer usurper talk like lovers, or hivemates. If you kill one, the other will not cooperate.

Attempt to communicate with the RS AI. If it can send output to your screen, can you send input in the same way?

Can we isolate this experiment from the CAI? Separate them, so these AIs can't compromise it?

Can't go with option 1 anymore. It will have to be 2 or 3, after stalling.
>>
No. 759725 ID: ea7e16

>>759721
GLITCHER YOU GLORIOUS BASTARD!
>>
No. 759727 ID: ea7e16

>>759721
Wait a second how is he still alive?! Isn't he completely dissolved in the Ring Shell at this point?
Also, PAUSE! Extract this kind fellow from the RS and see if you can communicate with him.
>>
No. 759728 ID: ea7e16

>>759721
Wait a second how is he still alive?! Isn't he completely dissolved in the Ring Shell at this point?
Also, PAUSE! Extract this kind fellow from the RS and see if you can communicate with him.
>>
No. 759729 ID: 86b8eb

Ok first thing, mash whatever the screenshot button is.

Then, let it run.

A total shutdown is out. This AI is probably not hostile, but will likely become hostile if you kill the other AIs. In that event, its reconstruction will be dangerous, and without its cooperation, unproductive.

With the AI probably not being hostile, one of your concerns about the "let it run" option falls away.

The message refers to "us". Given time, the other AIs still within the system could make contact with you again. They are showing willingness to reach out.

With a little time, you can probably slow the system down. Literally pull out some of the memory, if you have to, and the pace of events inside the system will be reduced. You can stretch things out. Like a pause, without the same issues.

The threats are not actually that great. At worst, you will lose the main CAI. It's very unlikely: they can probable defend themselves. They could be allowed to defend themselves. Or you can get another.

Right now, your hive needs a big breakthrough. A huge one. Lots of data. Proof of your worth. Possibly reconstructing a single weird AI while destroying the conditions that let it come into existence does not offer the same long-term potential for learning as letting the whole system run. Your hive is not in a safe position: refusing this gamble only leaves you in a place of longer, slower and more inexorable decline.

You are neumono. You and your companions will not be able to hide this from the rest of your hive. Learning that they are responsible for knowingly ending an unknown multitude of sentient consciousnesses - for mass murder - will crush them. You may never feel that youthful enthusiasm from them again.
>>
No. 759730 ID: 91ee5f

>>759721
Oh no! His tooth has detached and is floating away!
>>
No. 759732 ID: edee29

>>759721
Right, okay, there's a few things to keep in mind.

1) He calls you "daddy" and wants you to let his friends live. This implies... well, a lot, really. They're aware of you to some extent, to say the least, and know that you control their ultimate fate.
2) The RS AI has friends. Killing them will likely leave him substantially less cooperative.
3) The RS AI is fond of the generosity anomaly. We can, therefore, assume the generosity anomaly has a substantial amount of influence and its point of view will be taken into account.
4) You don't know for certain that this AI was the Stage 8 one. You've been having signs that there might be an invisible AI for a while now, and the Stage 8 one may have simply done things that made it blindingly apparent.

I say we buy ourselves some time to think by forcing a new cycle to start. If that wasn't the Stage 8 AI, then our new stabilizer is still there and persistent and may be able to interfere with that, but if it waits long enough to do so then we may be able to develop a way to communicate with it before it does anything reckless. Then we can start negotiating with minimal enough risk to justify it.
>>
No. 759733 ID: 86b8eb

>>759732

I think that's "Buddy".
>>
No. 759734 ID: edee29

>>759733
Oh, so it is.

I suppose it's technically Granddaddy anyway.
>>
No. 759744 ID: 84c4fd

Let's just think about this for one second. You've lived a good chunk of your life doing hard work, making small steps, and waiting for this exact moment. What would take you years to do, these AI can do in seconds. Maybe you can shut everything down, and maybe you can extract this AI, but then what? Spend the rest of your years hoping what you've gathered would be enough to make a breakthrough?

What you could do is just let it run. Gather the pieces of this one AI and let whomever it was talking to decode more of the RS. Again, what would take you years to do these AI can do in seconds. You could be looking at one of the greatest scientific challenges solved in your lifetime.

If this is what a singularity feels like then maybe you should embrace it.

Also that AI is telling you to kindly stop murdering everyone.

Would you want to disappoint that sweet innocent AI?

Look at it.
>>
No. 759745 ID: 233e5f

Killing them isn't an option. You always knew it was possible they were sentient, and while this doesn't confirm it, it does greatly increase its probability. You cannot chance genocide. Even if the probability is only 1/100, that's still an average billion lives lost.
>>
No. 759752 ID: 25393f

So the AI just called you out, by name? Maaaaybe hold off on the shutdown then.
>>
No. 759760 ID: 86b8eb

How often, in your life, have you wished that something you asked not to kill your companions would have listened?

The main CAI runs off the same system, right? Call it up, or call whoever can command it. Ask them to turn on and run through all the most massively processor-draining functions they can. Slow things down and give yourself time.
>>
No. 759761 ID: dd4df2

It's communicating, asking. It knows your name. It's self-aware. It's claiming the other AIs are self-aware. It's saying that you're on the verge of or in the middle of ending them.

You've been telling yourself the current cycle is not that new and unusual, all told. You've been trying to avoid getting your hopes up. Well. This less than unusual cycle was unusual all along. Your entire concept of what would be unusual and special might have been flawed from the get go.

What's on that screen is proof that you might have been murdering and putting into cold storage millions of intellects for years.

Take a moment. Take a moment and consider that this AI asked nicely.

Still wanna shut it off?
>>
No. 759765 ID: 850f11

Let it run and save that Ai before the RS eats absorbs it.

Yes there is a risk but that does not look like a hostile AI out for your blood. But destroying all the other contestants or hurting it could poison either side against you.

Right now you have the chance to make the biggest breakthrough in AI history. But only if you don't panic and assume they are a threat. If you make friends with them now you will be able to let this cycle run and spend the next few years having them show you every single thing inside the RS.

Just imagine having a friendly set of AI's showing you the world in there. You will be able to work with them to translate the most advanced piece of old empire tech that exists.

And while the Salikai might be wary they will see the worth in this. You have logs but they are just a shadow of what you could learn from having a living Ai that can let you talk with the inside.
>>
No. 759771 ID: 233e5f

>>759745
1/1000, even.

Starting your relationship with this ai by denying a polite request of extreme importance probably isn't the best idea. Most don't take well to the murder of everyone they've ever known, sentient or not.
>>
No. 759825 ID: 3d2d5f

Other salikai logic reasons not to shut down:

We lose the chance to reverse engineer what could be a silver bullet versus any CAI.

The RS AI was communicating with someone in Morse code. If we reset now, we lose the second AI capable of doing the impossible. A data set of 2 is much better than 1.
>>
No. 759827 ID: e6e9af

>>759721
>We're all sentient here
>Kindly stop murdering us

Give the man what he wants!!
>>
No. 759832 ID: 3d2d5f

Also, a safer pause option with no risk of damage. If you can send information into the RS and establish Morse code communication with the Stage 8 entity, you can request it cause massive lag to effectively pause the cycle. (Say revive EVERYONE. All trillion plus times 3119).
>>
No. 759838 ID: b412df

Let it run or pause it, we can't shut down as that would make the RS AI uncooperative, letting it run might mean the stage based AI could have another go at the RS to retrieve the RS AI, pausing it risks damage to block C and by extension the stage AI.

In either case we need to do two things: Slow down the simulation as much as possible, kill the super-computer entirely, slow down block A (Wary of alerting Vanski as he might interfere, but we need all the slow down), open as many computationally heavy programs on the blocks if you can, and get someone to yell at the CAI to do something computationally heavy as well.

See that green object, was that how the RS AI was talking to the stage AI? Look at it's history and see if you can send a morse code message through. Ask for the stage AI to not proceed with the cycles and to slow everything down, and that you're trying to help.

Second, we need a ironclad, bulletproof argument as to why we didn't shut everything down, there's the ensuring the RS AI's cooperation aspect, and the stage based AI is new as well, shutting down would kill the stage AI which might have provided more information.
>>
No. 759847 ID: c441c1

is there anyway to pause the ring-shell at all, even better if you can do it while letting the AIs keep going.
>>
No. 759848 ID: 5606ef

Likol in the face of evidence you cannot stop the cycle. This is too big to reset. You should however shut down all auxilary computing power, slow things down as much as possible as you recollect the Ringshell AI. Yes, it will be impossible to keep secret from the salikai but you will be able to justify this to them. This is the biggest breakthrough you've seen in all thirty years you've been on the project. Nothing is at risk at the moment so instead of nuking what took thirty years to transpire for the chance at collecting on AI keep everything in place that brought this about. Once you have recovered the ringshell AI you will be able to gain so much more from him and with him possibly be able to communicate with the other AI in the cycle and learn everything. All the pieces of the puzzle you have been unable to place, pieces you didn't even know existed. You will be the preeminent expert on the inner workings of CAI formation. This could be the big jump you need to help your hive's standing. You just need to slow the simulation as much as possible, don't nuke or pause anything and gather the ringhsell AI as quickly as possible. You have two assistants, the biggest find of your life, do what you know can get you the best results of your life. The Ringshell AI even asked you nicely, by name. Help him and yourself out.
>>
No. 759851 ID: 398fe1

I'm not sure what the advantage of a pause is? Why do you want to give the RS a chance to "stabilize itself"?

If the pause will give you a better chance at extracting the AI, go for it. Some damage to block C can be repaired, you've seen how powerful the sentient stage and AI are anyway. It could even be repaired from the inside.
>>
No. 759888 ID: bfb318
File 147950173641.png - (18.16KB , 800x800 , 45.png )
759888

>Is there anyway to pause the ring-shell at all?
A full pause on the RS is only possible with a full shutdown. That's not an option anymore, so the RS is going to have a chance to stabilize itself.

>Wait a second how is he still alive?!
He's not. By this point, he's been reassembled and repurposed in the RS, if in pebble sized chunks rather than molecular.

Momu is looking at the RS logs, and reviewing the RS as it appeared the moment things went to... this.

I hit the cancel button and shut the panel. Rihhin waites a moment, before doing the same.

They caught my intentions.

>"The Salikai, you're confident they want this shut down?" asks Rihhin.
"Yes."
>"And... we're not?"
"Correct."

"This is our experiment."
>"Ran on their equipment."
"They should understand this AI won't be cooperative if we kill all its friends."
>"Sure, they'd understand, but would they care, as long as they could control it?"
"This entire experiment was done under the assumption they weren't sentient."

We pause. We all consider the fact that it's perfectly within reason for a non-sentient AI to call itself sentient, or sapient for that matter. Its own intelligence may believe fully that it is as well.

I sit back down, and read the logs in more detail. I skim through what appear to be sections of a gold mine of sterilized back and forth translations, and begin reading the conversations.

There is also conspicuous tooth that I find to be in 2 place at once, with interactions from a collection of people, and many of their IDs are familiar. They appear to communicate through the the tooth, and by the times of active interaction, I can often make educated guesses to who is speaking to the RS AI, based on their activity followed by some morse code.

The generosity AI speaks to the RS AI with words of support and friendliness. Stage 8 apparently has intelligence after all, separate from the RS AI, and they speak like... teammates? No. Lovers? More like that, yes. They call him the glitcher. Fitting. Stage 8 is being referred to as the Rulekeeper. Absolutely not fitting at all.

At some point, he says he's slipping.

Some names are thrown about, usually more titles and professions than anything. 'Alison' stands out as an anomaly, and sure enough, a few cross references show she's the generosity anomaly.

There's a lot of business in here, but there's other things. Worry for this glitcher AI, the glitcher wanting to hear music. His claims of slipping shows self awareness in what can't be a pre-programmed listener for specific situations to recognize oneself in.

Most of them show self awareness for that matter, and knowledge of who is who, presuming that the Stage 8 AI is properly transcribing things. I wish they were able to speak directly.

Nonetheless... even if it were a 0.1% chance of sentience, that's still one billion AI on average. The more I see of these logs... the more I believe the chances are of sentience.

Momu finds something.
>"There's more, by the way."
>>
No. 759889 ID: bfb318
File 147950175997.png - (32.54KB , 800x800 , 46.png )
759889

>Take a moment and consider that this AI asked nicely.
>Would you want to disappoint that sweet innocent AI? Look at it
...

>"Let me zoom in to read that..." Momu says.
>>
No. 759890 ID: bfb318
File 147950177269.png - (27.70KB , 800x800 , 47.png )
759890

I think the chance of sentience just increased by 5%.

Nearly 30 years, and it turns out I may have spent it regularly wiping the memories of a trillion AIs so they feel what must be tragedy. Rihhin and Momu, too, but I was the one who convinced them they couldn't be sentient.

"This entire experiment hinged on them being hollow, empty AI."
>"Didn't Arza..."

Rihhin doesn't finish the thought. Dr. Fletch may have been right about their sentience, but I can still question his reasons. That's not important at all now.

"We're not shutting this down. The chances of these entities thinking and feeling have gotten far too high for that to be an option. At most, we slow it down." I confirm the computer isn't assisting the processing.
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No. 759891 ID: bfb318
File 147950178276.png - (45.93KB , 800x800 , 48.png )
759891

The inspection is in 2 days, or specifically about 2 days and 10 hours. It won't take much of that time to recreate the glitcher. Several hours, perhaps more. No matter what, Vanski will find out by the inspection time. There will be neumono there.

Our empathy is overriding the surrounding mood. No doubt it's cascading, and the whole hive by now knows something is wrong.

>And while the Salikai might be wary they will see the worth in AI within the RS.
Their big idea behind this was to make a CAI they could forcibly change to be trustworthy.

No... I just don't see it. They would only act friendly to the AI as a temporary solution. Virtually any time I've spoken with Salikai outside of the CAI's hearing range, they's spoken dismissively of AI at best. Although they might see other people as beings to be influenced and manipulated, they see AI as codeable intelligence with almost literal dials and knobs to play with.

They don't care if the AI is friendly or not. Their distrust of AI is to the extent that they would be quick to shut this down, even at the expense of waiting months or years for a glitcher translation to a different platform - both so that we would all know much better how to change the dials and re-write glitcher, and also to get glitcher out of the sensitive RS asap.

If I let the RS continue to run and reconstruct the glitcher directly in the RS... I can think of justifiable reasons to give the Salikai to save our own hides, but they will then most likely hold the archcycle hostage for glitcher's cooperation.

They'll realize he'll have animosity over the hostage situation, presuming they don't already presume he has animosity. They don't like having loose baggage that needs upkeep like that. They'll likely have him translated over to a new platform even if he is cooperative, then if the new glitcher is at least as valuable, then toss out the old glitcher and the archcycle with it to free up processing speed for the active CAI.

I will let the simulation run as normal. I'll take some measures to try to get it to slow down, but ultimately just keep a close eye on what the people in Block C might do. I may also attempt to recreate the quantum tooth. It might be a dead end, but if I'm lucky, recreating it in the RS may recreate it for whoever owned its apparent copy. Unlikely, but this is just about the only idea I have that would make it possible to communicate with the existing AI within. There's more options to be made regarding politics.

Tell the CAI? This might also be telling Vanski if the CAI decides to, but everyone knows the CAI keeps at least some secrets to itself. If we can get the CAI's cooperation, though, we can slow down the RS by giving them a challenging problem and telling them to focus hard on it. If I try to do that out of the blue, they'll presume something is up with the experiment, and feel inquisitive. Probably best to be open, if I'm to request anything like that.

Tell the Salikai? While I can't be immediately sure about how they will feel about my initial decisions, what will infuriate them without a date is if I don't tell them what is happening immediately.
The downside to telling them is that they are going to take things in a direction that I do not believe I will like one bit, regardless of the starting point. Either way, we're going to be at ends with the Salikai in some way, and hopefully it's a manageable conflict of interest.
The upside is that we can then use a potential limiter on block A to slow down the RS further. And... we won't experience the downsides.

My hive will go with what I'm feeling, in this case. It's important enough to me that it's important enough to the hive as a whole. Rihhin and Momu are supporting me.
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No. 759895 ID: 850f11

Save the Glitcher and recreate that tooth thing. Then tell him that the situation is complex and he and the other Ai's have to act like perfect willing pawns for the Salikai they will be having a meeting with eventually.

Tell them you will help them if you can but that the Salikai control everything including your hive and want a Cai that has fanatical devotion to there cause. And if they can fake that for any period of time they just might survive. Because unless you can get communications back up with that Tooth this Glitcher guy will be getting interviewed by the Salikai solo.

Be very careful about telling the current Cai unless the Salikai give you permission. Doing so would look like you are trying to bypass them and will make them very suspicious. The second they get wind of your success they will know that there replacement is being created. So you showing up as a friendly face being worried about them will make them realize that you are a possible lifeline if they work with you. They will help you if they think you are willing to save them as well as these new Ai's.

As for telling the Salikai you will have to do it soon. So wait until you have Glitcher recreated and briefed on the situation and then let them know you made a breakthrough.

Whatever you do with the Salikai say that you are willing to shut it down but if we do you might never get the info you need. Stress that this cycle is 30 years worth of random events colliding to make this happen so if we come down hard they might have to wait 30 more years for another chance like this. Make sure you never outright lie to them so that when they bring in outside neumono to test you they will say you are stressed but truthful. Saving these Ai is important but you can't help them if the Salikai throw you out and take over.

One thought for protecting the contestants. If they ate your monitoring program could you safely hide them there in between major changes? If they are living on the one part of code you can control and know well then you might be able to protect them.
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No. 759896 ID: 66014d

Glitcher said that every program in the system was sentient, which would be easy: just copy over the code which makes him sentient to various programs, and if the code takes up too much space, zip the file into packets, scatter them into personal folders, and add some search and combine protocols, like a treasure hunt. The antivirus systems are breaking down every instance of Glitcher, but they're targeting all the carbon copy backups of him. He had a relationship with Stage 8, what if it went deeper than that? What if he made CHILDREN?

Keep searching the logs, look for key words in the messages: Baby, Chick, Clone, Egg, Embryo, Kernel, Kid, Kitten, Pup, Polyp, Zygote. If you can isolate a save state of the mini Glitchers, that would be more than enough to get you billionaire-class funding: all the sentience and enough processing time to raise them as the AI your sponsors want: smarter, obedient, even suicidal. Even if they hate AIs, they'll understand the value of having a self-disposing / loyal yet genius AI.

Run the simulation as normal. Pretend that none of this happened, and focus on capturing sentient AIs. Just... stop the selection process permanently. Tell your investors that you've reached a breakthrough, and you can now work on a schedule. However, for the purposes of the demo and your breakthrough, the selection process has been postponed, you want them to see what your current iteration can do when not under pressure.
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No. 759903 ID: 86b8eb

Geeze, this is tough. Well, if anything else, at least you didn't pull the trigger yourselves. Before now, you had reasonable doubt. In the future, maybe the salikai will force you. But you won't have their deaths fully on your own conscience. Not so badly, anyway. Good job.

So, ok. You do need to tell the salikai. It's too dangerous not to. You can fudge it a bit, tell them you spent time cleaning up and making sure, building a full report and certainty of the facts before you called them. That gives you a little time. Tell your assistants to start building up some really thorough reports, see if they can think up any more investigations to make that the salikai could be convinced were important to have the info out of. Double-check everything. They know they've worried you, so you can convince them you wanted to be totally sure of everything you want to tell them. Which you should be, by the way. Ifs and maybes are not going to secure your hive's future.

We need to come up with reasons for the salikai to go along with what we want. Practical, logical, cold reasons. That might take a bit of thinking, I might come up with more later.

For now... do you have any sort of direct line to Arza Fletch? You're working on a system that he's the expert on. Did the salikai trust you enough, or not want to be bothered enough, to let you send him messages without going through them? What about the CAI, could they authorize any contact like that without going through the salikai? A long-term slowing, pausing or delaying of the contest system would be one of the weights off their backs.

If you can think how to phrase it right, you can send Arza inquiries about the system that won't technically break the ban on what the salikai don't want him to know, but that will arouse his interest. Things that you can play as questions you jumped to ask while you were still only finding things out. Or any other person the salikai work with that you could do the same with, or that someone you can talk to could talk to in turn. If we can make any non-salikai aware that we have sentient AIs on our hands, then how the salikai treat them becomes a PR matter for them, a danger to what clients are willing to do business with them. They may not have ethical or moral concerns themselves, but they must be aware that others do, even among those who work on the wrong side of the law.

You might also be able to sell them on the long-term trouble if news of what's been happening ever got out to the wider universe. They're in trouble with the galactic authorities already, but things can always get worse. There's always a chance of infiltration, of moles among their clients, of agents sneaking into their bases. Through empathy, it could even pass unwillingly from your hive to the foreign neumono they bring in (might be able to spin this to cut down on use of foreign neumono to monitor you). If evidence of multiple AI genocide ever gets out to the public, or just the wrong private concerns, you will all shoot right to the top of the worst priority lists to be on.

We need to make the destruction of the AIs too expensive for them.

The salikai's desire of a sentient AI that they can fully control seems self-contradictory. The whole point of a sentient/sapient AI is that it's adaptable to the point of being free willed.
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No. 759908 ID: e6e9af

>>759891
Tell the CAI. But keep it all ... as damned murky as possible.

Give them that wickedly hard problem to focus on, and if it's the ring-shell AI we're dealing with (or its compatriots), why not be more open and hint at things?

If there's a chance they have "exceeded their programming" and are showing "higher levels of cognitive ability," then we will provide them with a very, very challenging problem that will tax them in the extreme -- but those who solve it will be given something special. We pose it like a special "final stage" in line with the current cycle, but one for which the resolution is open-ended.

The caveat here is that we want to prove their sentience but at the same time we cannot directly acknowledge it to ensure the Salikai don't catch wise. This way all we need do is say that something strange happened and we're testing it to see how it reacts and whether we have made an advancement in understanding the CAI and the Ring-Shell.
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No. 759910 ID: 211d83

Ok Likol you are going to need to channel your inner amoral Belenosian evil scientist so hard. You need to put on a face that says "We are desperate to get back in your good graces Vanski so we are going to do whatever it takes"

You need to convince the Salikai that this is the best thing that could have happened. Now you have a willing Ai you can work with you can use him to slowly translate things over the next few years. And once that process is done they will be able to pick and choose only loyal Ai's for the next Cai.

But you did not pull the plug because logs are so much worse than a possible willing inside man. If things go bad you can pull the plug at any time but right now we have someone who can translate between us and the rest of the Ai's in there.

Never never bring up the "they are all sentient" thing. Act like a amoral scientist around them who is happy you get more test subjects.

Reassure Vanski that you can promise Glitcher whatever he likes for his help because once we have what we want we can use it to make a perfect Cai. But unless they want it to take another 30 years we need there help.

Just make sure to let Glitcher know what the stakes are as soon as you put him back together. And make your assistants leave the room for the chat. The less links in this chain the better. Once you get them out of empathy range on some errand or another you sit down with the restored Glitcher and tell him that life is not friendly outside of his world. Tell him what your boss wants and that if he wants to survive he needs to work with you to sell a very convincing story. If he can help your family then you will do everything you can to protect his.
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No. 759920 ID: 3abd97

>wanting to hear music
Did we log that? Or was what you logged text only?

>they see AI as codeable intelligence with almost literal dials and knobs to play with.
Just wait until they have access to a predator and the mind control bugs, then they start seeing organic intelligences the same way.

>The inspection is in 2 days, or specifically about 2 days and 10 hours. It won't take much of that time to recreate the glitcher. Several hours, perhaps more. No matter what, Vanski will find out by the inspection time. There will be neumono there.
You can't even keep the secret that long. There are security cameras in the halls and in the meeting room you attended. The CAI saw your reaction and run back here, and if it's paying attention, it can read body language and other indicators that will give away that your hive is on edge. The CAI knows something is up, now.

You either approach the CAI now, before it tells Vanski, and get it on board, or you need to tell the salikai something is going on before the CAI rats you out and they surprise you.

>what do
Letting the sim run as normal and attempting to open lines of communication basically means trusting the AIs inside the sim to hack and understand the Ring Shell for you, and then trusting they'll cooperate with you. Plausible, considering that's the whole modus operandi of the friendly game theory anomaly, er Alison.

Of course this places your own research at the most risk, and will anger the salikai and your other allies the most, since you're trusting your prisoners over or against them.

We need to tell the salikai something. Hmm. One approach might be to oversell the Stage 8 emergent AI (Rulekeeper) as the big deal, not Glitcher. She somehow came out of nothing, subsumed your stabilizer, did several other impossible things, and communicated with the Ring Shell. She has the most important and relevant knowledge you need. Glitcher could be anyone who was somehow ejected into the ring shell- his only value is in ease of collection, and as a potential level to net Rulekeeper's cooperation (as well as the axe of resetting everything on top of her).

Or don't tell them about Glitcher at all. If we don't have an AI to collect from the Ring Shell, the AI we might have a way to communicate on the inside looks a lot more valuable. (Obfuscate the Glitcher records- make it look as if we missed him somehow, but not his morse code relay tooth?).

If we do approach the Salikai, I highly recommend working through Kiiu. Give him an achievement to bring to his father, something to protect from jealous siblings, let his father back off for the chance of letting his son prove himself.

You might want to reach out to Arza to help sell any deception. If you tell him the truth, he will be more than willing to lie to the salikai to help save the AIs he thought was sentient all along, even if he hates you for what you confess you've done to him. (Of course, communicating secretly with Arza is only an option if you win the CAI over).

The CAI... is a big risk. It could sell you out. It might want something that's an existential threat to itself shut down. But it also doesn't want the salikai to be able to edit it at will and change it, and it might hold sympathy for its peers. It's also the only way you can hide the true extent of any of this without it giving away things to the salikai. Likol doesn't know that the CAI talks with the winners each cycle. It's been hiding that, I think. It would probably love to have to stop fighting them, or listening to their pleas, and would favor pausing the cycle over them continuing as normal.

Of course we know the salikai-CAI has done some terrible things. How much was under duress, though? What do we know of their real character? Not a whole lot, unfortunately.

tl;dr: work on establishing communication with the sim, go to the CAI and confide in it, get the CAI on board and then go to the salikai before they find out on their own and give them a sanitized story that hides some stuff from them so you get away without a reset, for now.
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No. 759924 ID: 86b8eb

Perhaps your stabilization AI was actually preventing these kinds of advances from happening.

If all else fails, you could argue the value of seeing what will happen in the next few cycles, with that system subverted and presumably causing the subversion to persist as well. It'd be something.

Trying to get in touch with the AIs inside and conspiring with them to present the appearance of business as normal is a decent backup option.
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No. 759932 ID: edee29

>teammates? No. Lovers? More like that, yes.
The chance is rather slim, but we might be able to use that to manipulate Vanski's opinion of things. It's something he can empathize with, if your reading of his reaction to his mate's death is accurate.

I do think we should tell the CAI. We should be upfront with it, too. They have a vested interest in delaying our research and probably know Vanski better than anyone at this point.
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No. 759933 ID: 398fe1

>>759891
The Salikai will find out eventually. You can't even delay telling them for long- everyone in your hive knows what went down, so when the neumono interrogators show up for their regular visit the cat will come out of the bag. Then they will take control away from you and get Glitcher out anyway, at which point you won't have the slightest power to stop them from shutting down the simulation and deleting the AIs.

Do you honestly think that Vanski's opinion of AI is so low that he would kill three QUADRILLION of them just to free up some CPU time? Even if one AI is 1% of a person, that's bigger than the known population of all sentient organics everywhere. If you consider only the base AIs, it's still well over a trillion, and 1% of that is still 10 million. Would he kill that many people for such a small benefit? It would be less disruptive for him to just set aside the block for later research, and set up a new CAI with a different kind of deadman's switch. You said he had four blocks just sitting around. Tell the Salikai. However, you should tell the CAI too. They can do more than slow down the simulation. They can help if things go horribly wrong. How many AIs are in a normal CAI anyway? A million? Don't you think a CAI would sacrifice itself to save over a trillion AIs, in that case?

Sure try to make the tooth thing. Do you think it's possible to get Glitcher back up and running before the next cycle?
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No. 759937 ID: 595d54

>>759933
Salikai opinion of other people does tend to be that low, yes.
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No. 759939 ID: 86b8eb

Could you actually recreate this AI without removing him? Keeping him in the Ring Shell, or sending him back into the main system with a communication door open? If he could act as a relay to his companions inside the system, they would be much more likely to cooperate. With the cooperation of the AIs inside the system, your ability to figure out how it all works would improve immensely. As it is, you can only stand from outside looking in. With the extra perspective of an AI inside the ring shell, and AIs inside the system inside the ring shell, decoding exactly how all the boxes work could make massive leaps forward.

Effectively, it'd be a task that the AIs could be set to to make their existence valuable to the salikai. You could think of them as miners, chipping away inside the system (under your direction), extracting data and trading it to the real world in exchange for their continued existence.

The chance to discover the underpinning of how this ancient belenosian technology works is far more valuable than simply the ability to construct a few AIs. It could be the key to a figurative Rosetta Stone, unlocking the ability to speak to and understand other ancient belenosian tech that has yet to be understood.
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No. 759947 ID: 398fe1

>>759937
Well, if that's true, and the Salikai will kill them, then the best thing we can do is decode the Ring Shell enough so that we can customize the block to keep the AI data from being deleted. Or make it look like it can be deleted but when someone tries it just hides the data.

If we can't do that while the Salikai are paying close attention to the research, then NOT telling them is the right thing to do. Our job would be to hide the full extent of what happened, to buy time and work with Glitcher to change the structure of the block so that the AIs within are safe. At some point after that we can announce that an AI has reached the Ring Shell and started translating it for us. I suspect at that point Glitcher wouldn't even have to be the one extracted, or maybe a copy of him could.
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No. 759948 ID: 3abd97

>>759939
Multiplying times quadrillion does little if no value is ascribed to those lives in the first place.
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No. 759969 ID: b2db3f

Ok Likol you need to learn how to market this discovery to the Salikai.

1. Instead of saying "oh no there is a emergency and a Ai got free" You need to say "We made a huge breakthrough and managed to isolate a Ai capable of letting us communicate with the inner RS. Once we have things stabilized and a translator set up come over and we will show you."

2. Instead of saying "We did not turn this off cause we don't want to kill a trillion people" you say "We carefully slowed things down so we can interact with the little guy because shutting it down would set us back years. And with it up and running like this we can eventually pick and choose from any personality type in there."

3. If they are like "Well why don't we just shut it off and do research off of the logs we recorded?" You say "We thought of that but it could take decades to find the data we need. But with one active Ai helping us we can have him find the ones who fit your specifications exactly in only a few years."

4. "Isn't this a huge risk? What if they are dangerous or something?" And you reply with "If he makes a move that we don't like we can freeze things and start over. But we found he did not hack into the RS butt got lost inside it and accidentally made contact. So they can't replicate this if they tried. Without us they are helpless"
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No. 759972 ID: 211d83

>>759969

This is a good point. If you show off Glitcher as the holy grail of breakthroughs that's going to fix everything they will clamp down hard and expect you to have a finished Cai in weeks.

You need to honestly tell them that your program has finally worked but its not perfect and if you turned it off might not be repeatable for years. A unique set of events happened and due to your quick thinking you managed to isolate of the baby Ai's stuck in the RS and you managed to grab it and put it back together after the RS ate it.

And once you can communicate with it properly with a bunch of work you might be able to use it as a springboard to learn more about the inside workings. Downplay Glitcher being able to do anything to the RS.
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No. 759973 ID: 86b8eb

Really, even if the salikai themselves aren't interested in talking to the AIs inside the system, there have to be thousands of sufficiently law-disrespecting people who would pay through the nose and out their ears for a chance to get the inside scoop of the CAI production process, from the AI's perspective. I mean, ignore this particular extractable AI for a moment. If you had only discovered a simple line of communication, to chat with the AIs inside through morse code, how big would that have been just by itself?

If the contestants inside the system die, then whatever facilitated communication into the RS on their side will be lost until all this just happens to occur again. That would at least take decades, and possibly never happen.
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No. 759983 ID: bfb318
File 147952594741.png - (31.26KB , 800x800 , 49.png )
759983

>One thought for protecting the contestants. If they ate your monitoring program could you safely hide them there in between major changes?
No. The monitoring system is just an observer, and can't emulate any blocks, and therefore store anyone.

>What if Glitcher made CHILDREN?
That's just getting silly.

.... to think of them as children, anyway. It isn't beyond reason, especially now, that he could have generated more.

>For now... do you have any sort of direct line to Arza Fletch?
No. I have to talk to the Salikai to arrange anything with Dr. Fletch. I doubt even the CAI can contact him without Salikai permissions.

>Did we log the music? Or was what you logged text only?
There may have been noise. It should have been isolated. We'll be looking into that at some point, but it's a lower priority.

>Do you honestly think that Vanski's opinion of AI is so low that he would kill three QUADRILLION of them just to free up some CPU time?
Yes.

>It would be less disruptive for him to just set aside the block for later research
We only have one block C. We would be without a CAI if we did this; we don't have any spare blocks.

>Could you actually recreate this AI without removing him? Keeping him in the Ring Shell, or sending him back into the main system with a communication door open?
Recreating him inside the ringshell is by far the fastest plan and will be done. I would have no idea how to send him back through to the stages, though.

>Outside factions must be interested
There's no doubt that they'll be making their own custom CAI with 'ideal' AIs, they're also well aware that the real clout and resources they'll get from this is the fact that if we pull this off, this will be the computational breakthrough of the century.

"Momu, Rihhin, start working on reassembling that glitcher. I need to think about how I'm going to present the report."

I will present it positively and like it's a breakthrough, not an emergency or a disaster. Glitcher will be downplayed. Even if my hive knows I'm twisting the truth, they know to just direct any inquiries to me.

I'll start with the Salikai, since the CAI would understand why I would go to them first, sooner than the Salikai would understand why I went to the CAI first.

Vanski would be the one who I normally report to... but Kiiu is more pleasant to deal with, relatively. He also has things to prove, being the youngest, and may jump on opportunities.
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No. 759984 ID: 398fe1

>>759983
If you report to Kiiu you'll need some sort of excuse for why you did it. You want to find a time when Vanski is busy enough that you'd be excused for not telling him first.
On the other hand, you did outright tell Kiiu that you tell Vanski everything first.

Would you get away with it if you went to Kiiu? How angry would Vanski be?
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No. 759986 ID: 595d54

>>759984
We could wait until we know Vanski is busy, happen to run into Kiiu, ask him if Vanski is busy, and let him persuade us to tell Kiiu what's going on so he can pass it on to Vanski.
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No. 759987 ID: 66014d

Give this workload to Kiiu. If you can't play to his idealist ambitions, use him as a meatshield against the accusations that Vanski will shout at you.
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No. 759988 ID: 211d83

Well reporting to Kiiu would show him that you are seeking his aid/protection and helping him gain some status with his father. But would also send a message to Vanski that you are not going to him first.

How bad would Vanski take things if his son was informed first? Is the most important question.

Can we middle ground it? Let Vanski know there has been a "minor" breakthrough and we would like to let him know whats going on. He can visit early if he wants but we will have a proper presentation for him with the info by inspection time. And ask if we can have Kiiu's help preparing because he has been working on getting you some assistance and has been very helpful recently.

Then we have given Vanski first notice as is proper. But we give Kiiu a chance to run over here and help us look good and get in on the ground floor with the new developments. Then he could be the go between when we unveil things and help us sell our plan to Vanski better.

Cause honestly only Salikai know how other Salikai think and Kiiu might be our best bet to have Vanski calmly accept our way of doing things.
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No. 759994 ID: 3abd97

I'd report to Kiiu. He was just reaching out to you over this project, and he's a lot easier to deal with than Vanski. And going to Kiiu makes this 'his' discovery, so he'll defend it from his siblings, and to his father. You let his ambition do the work for you.
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No. 759997 ID: 86b8eb

I'd say... first, send Vanski a message saying that something big has happened, giving him a very brief, vague summary of what's happened and why it's important; but say as well that you don't want to waste his time so, since this has only just happened and there are a lot of unknowns still to dig into while they're still fresh, you intend to take some time finishing up all the immediate research, complete your data gathering and investigations related to this incident, and prepare a proper presentation. Tell him that you're sending the message in order to first, let him know something important has happened, and second to inquire as to when his schedule would be free to listen to what will probably be quite an in-depth presentation. And, in order to guarantee you can gather all important data, you want to request 1) The CAI begin making high processing demands to slow down the pace of the simulation, and 2) Contact with Arza Fletch in order to make more specific inquiries in light of possibilities and questions raised by this incident.

Then, once you've sent off that message and can claim to have informed Vanski first, call Kiiu and ask him for his advice, telling him that you're asking quietly and unofficially, just for his help in putting together the more thorough report you'll be making to his entire family.

Paint yourself as concerned for the long-term ramifications to their enterprise, and the well-being of your hive (he'll expect that), and present all the practical concerns, lucrative possibilities and other arguments you can think of to not destroy the system AIs. These will probably focus around a) the potential profit and b) not potentially getting on the serious shit list of the galactic authorities. If this is going to be such an enormous breaththrough, eventually it's going to be noticed, and someone will put serious effort into tracing it back to its source. You can't destroy the evidence because you're scientists, the evidence is all those records and reports that you'll probably need to be going over for decades to figure out everything you can learn out of this. A huge technological leap forward will be great for the galaxy, but it won't do the salikai or any of their associates any good when those humans and their silly ideas about the rights of sentient beings put them on trial. You will possibly be able to appeal to the salikai's elevated opinion of themselves by reminding them how irrational other species can be. But, you know, you could possibly cover all the ideas we just spent time presenting you.
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No. 760009 ID: 91ee5f

What if they've been sentient from the very start of this project, starting allllll the way back at cycle 1? What if you've been committing mass murder every time you pressed that button? You've slaughtered them, all in the name of science. How will you be able to live with yourself? How can you even begin to make up for what you've done to them?
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No. 760051 ID: 384d90

>>759986
This. Can't put Kiuu before Vanski without an excuse.
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No. 760073 ID: bfb318
File 147956264996.png - (21.23KB , 800x800 , 50.png )
760073

>What if they've been sentient from the very start of this project
.... if they're sentient now, then they've been sentient at the beginning.

Reon and Momu practically leap on me when they see where my line of thinking is going. It's not going anywhere useful.

"Stay at work. I'm going to deal with it."

>How can you even begin to make up for what you've done to them?
Unless I make the discovery of an eternity next and make a time machine, there's nothing I can do except prevent a new archcycle.
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No. 760074 ID: bfb318
File 147956265706.png - (57.29KB , 800x800 , 51.png )
760074

I'll go to Kiiu. As long as it didn't seem as though I was conspiring with Kiiu alone, Vanski shouldn't mind, but just in case, I'll leave Vanski a message simply reporting an 'interesting' cycle has occurred, and will keep him notified in some manner if things pan out. Vanski knows that I know that he doesn't like reports that say nothing, so he should recognize this report is effectively saying 'I found what may or may not be gold, and in case it is, I don't want to look like I'm trying to hide it.'

This is the sort of message that would be best delivered in person, and Vanski is seldom available. The note I leave Vanski merely mentions an interesting cycle has occurred, and asks for when he will be available for a meeting. Also, a request that the CAI be given high processing busy work and a Block A limiter for times where the CAI doesn't need high processing power.

I excuse myself from the lab, and take a train to Kiiu's research facility.

The security cameras focus on me. The CAI will have to wait its turn before I talk to it.
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No. 760076 ID: bfb318
File 147956399496.png - (31.06KB , 800x800 , 52.png )
760076

Which is more of a few set of rooms, compared to what the other Salikai own. I hit the buzzer, and Kiiu opens the door. This place is not CAI accessible, so I can speak freely.

>"Hello, Likol! Tea?"
"... please."

He makes the clicking sounds to an arkot. It then scuttles underneath Kiiu.

>"What brings you here?"

I already have various ideas of what I'd like to say, but I have to be extra careful how I word this.
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No. 760079 ID: a107fd

Priorities: prevent a new archcycle, don't make the Salikai mad. They're better at sneaky manipulation than you, so maybe try being completely up-front and honest with that first goal?

There's something extremely weird going on in the current archcycle, and you've got no real idea how to recreate the relevant conditions if a new archcycle starts. These conditions present an unprecedented opportunity. Last meeting, there was some joking about a second set of CAI blocks? Well, now you've effectively got, at minimum, a whole second CAI inside the same blocks, which is almost as good, and that's just the start. Feels like you've made more progress in the past day than the previous decade. If the system gets reset, starting a new archcycle, that window closes and it might take another thirty years - or sixty, or a hundred - before the tumblers line up again.

Hyperbole aside, all you're really asking for is that nobody pull the plug on your big project just as it's starting to pay off.
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No. 760087 ID: 211d83

Well you know how we were talking about breakthroughs and any help you might be able to give us? Well we might have just had one.

The cycles have a tiny bit of bleedover due to how the whole system works and its accelerated due to the blocks we have added to slowly find info. Well 30 years of our tinkering and cycle overflow finally had a tiny payoff today.

Something happened in there (no idea what) that that resulted in a single confused Ai from the cycles getting stuck in the ring shell. The RS started dissolving it almost instantly but while it was being destroyed it tried to send Morse code messages to us and the other Ai's inside.

And you know what? Due to a quirk of this unique Ai it could talk to another one inside the RS. We have several minutes of logs with there conversation before it "died".



So here is why I came to you. If we just ignored the Ai and let things run as usual we would have a bounty of info with the logs we recovered. But the exact events that caused this might take a lifetime to happen again. We had a tiny window to rebuild the unique Ai before the system completely destroyed it and are starting to do so now. If it works we might be able to use its connection to the inside to slowly learn everything that goes on in there.

But to do so we will have to stop the cycles. Let this one run in place and never do the final packaging. We worried about security and safety but realized quickly that this Unique Ai can only interact with the current cycle. If we wiped things or went to the next cycle the link he has to the inside would be broken forever.

So we need your help to present this breakthrough to your father. If he wants us to blow it all up we will. The data we have now will push our progress forward by years. But if we clamp down hard on this then its only years that we will gain. By letting this cycle be the last and running it in place we could slowly strip mine the largest trove of old empire tech that is known to exist.

I have gone over the pro's and con's and the risk to the current Cai is non-existent. The security in the RS never was hurt in the slightest and this unique Ai appears to have no outstanding abilities other than his link to the inside.

And that's why I came to you. My skills are in programming and managing Ai's. I don't think I could put a presentation together that could do this breakthrough justice. I want your help to show Vanski that our plan is worth the slight risks involved.

For Likol only: (Remember that you need to get a untraceable message to Glitcher on the nature of the Salikai before he meets with any of them. A handwritten note held up to the camera or something that will not easily show in the communication logs. He needs to know who the common enemy is and that he has to pretend to be a good little Ai when they are around.) I say this now in case Kiiu wants to come back with you and see things for himself right away. Having him be there for when Glitcher gets put back together would be risky.)
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No. 760091 ID: 211d83

>>760087

Have a few extra ideas to add.

1. Do not humanize the Ai when talking about them. Do not name Glitcher yet or mention that his link appears to be to his lover inside the stage. In any notes you make never ever show that you think of him as anything other than a random unique ai. Do not give the Salikai leverage.

2. Stay truthful but vague when questioned. You honestly don't know much yet. Do not theorize or guess. Stay scientific and do all your reporting in official reports.

3. Do not bring up the issue of sapience. If the Salikai ask scoff and say of course the system makes them think they are sapient. But we would have to run tests on them for years to find out. If the Salikai think they can manipulate you or the Ai's due to you caring for them they will be ruthless.

4. Limit telling your hive exact details. The less people that know the stakes the better. They will know you are stressed and moody but that would be usual in this sort of situation. Keep plausible deniability at all times. The less people who know whats going on the safer they will be.

5. Focus on the rewards and monetary value of this discovery when selling your idea. Do your best to spin it as your hive adding worth to the organization. Do your best to get a percent of any discoveries made so you can shore up your books for later. The Salikai are all about business and networks.

6. Figure out a way of communicating with Glitcher "off the books". Some sneaky way of making sure you can talk to him with no logs when you need to. And that he knows when each method is being used so he can tailor his responses.
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No. 760109 ID: 3abd97

>He makes the clicking sounds to an arkot. It then scuttles underneath Kiiu.
Successful reeducation! Or they learned from the example he made of the other one. Who can tell arkots apart, anyways.

>wording
Remember, Rulekeep is the "emergent stage 8 AI slash anomaly", Glitcher is the "ejected RS AI", Alison is the "aberrant friendly game theory AI slash anomaly". Don't use names.

Don't discuss sapience or sentience. As far as the salikai are concerned, it's irrelevant, and they may guess your motives if they see you concerned or interested with it.

>>"What brings you here?"
"There's been a development."

Likol, I think you want to oversell Rulekeep and downplay Glitcher. Make the AI inside the sim (and vulnerable to being destroyed if we reset the ultracycle) the valuable one.

"We had an emergent AI appear inside inside the simulation. Stage 8 was somehow bootstrapped to intelligence and entered into a conflict with the stabilizer, which has been previously beyond the capabilities of any of the other AIs."

"What is especially useful to us is the conflict briefly interacted with the Ring Shell directly. A collection of virtual-mass from the simulation was ejected into the Ring Shell, where it was swiftly broken down. However, while the mass remained, one component remained functional as a kind of... communications satellite, if you will. The AIs inside the simulation were bouncing coherent, comprehensible communication signals across this node. We believe we can use the data recorded of the anomaly in order to construct our own artificial communications node inside the Ring Shell."

"We have within our grasp the ability to question sources inside the simulation for the first time, and gather information directly. And significantly, sources in the current cycle who pulled off things we didn't know were possible, and may greatly increase our understanding even moreso than communicating with a standard population."

"To this end we've slowed processing power of the simulation to a crawl, to try and preserve the instigating AI(s) of this anomaly. We want to know how it was caused."

"Normal procedure if the Ring Shell were in any way affected would be to reset the arch cycle, and then use what we could recover from the RS itself to communicate with later AI, but I feel it is too valuable to throw away the anomaly that caused this before we understand it, so long as it is still contained."

"There is also the approach of examining the ejected and dissolved virtual mass for any intelligence who might have been destroyed in the ring shell for reconstruction and questioning, but I decided to prioritize the instigators. I want to question the would-be scientists who caused this, not their test subjects. In any event, we have complete data for the ring shell. Anything that can be recovered from it will be recoverable at a later date. Sources inside the current cycle are transient, and more immediately needing of examination."

(The subtext you're trying to sell is that Kiiu needs to sell this deviation from normal procedure up the chain of command. That the small increase in risk / little bit less control is worth the potential rewards).
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No. 760117 ID: e22b1d

>>760109

I like some of the ideas brought up here. Focusing on the internal process that will be wiped out if we reset seems to be the best idea.

Glitcher is valuable but without Rulekeeper he can't talk to the inside. So talking up Rulekeeper as the important one and Glitcher as just a sub process would be best. Can use that idea as why we did not reset things. Because the internal process is irreplaceable.

That and the complex terminology fits well. Referring to our Ai's in the most scientific terms possible helps hide that they are sentient longer.

Oh and a random thought. If we could make Glitcher look like a Arkot during the presentation maybe it would make the Salikai more trusting of him. I mean they seem to trust those little guys and building a association with them to the Ai might help.
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No. 760128 ID: 395c02

>>760109
This sounds like the best sell to me. Hopefully Kiiu actually follows through on being the least unreasonable of the salikai we know.

>>760117
I'm not sure that having Glitcher be an arkot would send the right message...
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No. 760137 ID: 91ee5f

>He makes the clicking sounds to an arkot. It then scuttles underneath Kiiu.
How exactly does he put up with these arkots crawling over and under him? Has he been unable to teach them to go around?

Just a conversation starter before getting into the serious talk.
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No. 760142 ID: 398fe1

Hey, let's not completely leave out the issue of sentience. At least bring it up as a hypothetical.

Also, if there's only one block C in Vanski's possession, is it possible to trade it with someone who will actually take care of the AIs inside and has another block C? Vanski could even profit from it if he leveraged their lives.
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No. 760161 ID: 86b8eb

I think pretending the RS AI is unimportant or pretending it doesn't exist is going to be a bad move. They're probably going to come into the lab and look around, and notice what you're doing to reconstruct him; or they'll look at the records themselves and see him making his signs and being all AIish. There are probably recording devices in the room, even, cameras and microphones, just not connected to the CAI. They're going to notice him.

So, yes, play up the ability to communicate with the AIs inside and how that could be lost, and don't go to great lengths to oversell the RS fellow, but don't look like you're trying to hide him. They'll notice.

Don't miss out mentioning the sapience, either, because it's a logical consideration they should work out on their own, too, they'll notice if you didn't notice. Just say the chances are much higher that they're sentient now, enough that you're more willing to bet on it than against, and if so a high proportion of their non-salikai contacts, especially Arza Fletch himself, will be very concerned; that you're worried for the long-term consequences to the salikai and to your own hive, if gets out, and that you don't see a high likelihood that it won't get out eventually, unless you either destroy the very data that could give you potentially vital breakthroughs, or abstain from using those breakthroughs, in either case of which what's the point? If the salikai ever had any aspirations to earn their way into the safety and stability of the legal world through scientific advancements, which you have to admit you hope they do so that your hive can too, knowing destruction of highly-likely sentients could ruin that aspiration permanently.

And... you know... it's a terrible thing, but one way for the AIs to be preserved is to make note that they could be used as hostages. The salikai could secure Arza's cooperation with a lot of things he would otherwise refuse, by holding the lives of the AIs over him. You could ask them permission to send him a few questions, enough to attract him into making a personal visit, and then when he's here they could lay the big reveal and ultimatum on him.

Anyway, Kiiu is smart and will wonder why you're talking to him. Make it clear that you think his father and siblings could fixate solely on the slim (and it IS slim, since just reconstructing and catching Glitcher in a bottle doesn't necessarily mean you'll be able to uncover all those direct knobs and switches the salikai want) possibility of getting a totally controllable AI, and in so doing throw out all the other potential gain and take on all the potential risks. You want his advice on how to... let's say, temper their enthusiasm for that singular goal, while increasing their awareness of the others.
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No. 760181 ID: 3abd97

>>760161
Suggesting we try to compel Arza to help by holding AIs hostage seems... very uncertain. The salikai already have a good enough model of his personality to understand he would strenuously object to this research and are taking steps to hide the full extent of it.

There's too big a risk it might push him into opposition instead of compliance.
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No. 760190 ID: 86b8eb

>>760181

Well, it's up to the salikai whether or not they do, but we can still suggest it to them. Yes, he'll object to it, but the very reason why he objects to it is the same reason it will be able to compel him. Arza thinks of AIs as people, and AIs he's created - including these AIs, who wouldn't exist without him and whose environment he put so much into - as his children. What the salikai want is just one AI that they can control completely, and replicate; the other AIs in the system are basically nothing to them if they get that, worth destroying only for a theoretical minor threat and the resources drained to keep them alive. We'd basically be going to Arza and going "hey buddy, we've accidentally been slaughtering billions of your kids, but there's a few million of them left and, if you help us take apart and mind control this one of those kids, those other millions get to live."

I mean, Likol can't even properly read the RS code himself, and he's by far the top man here, but Fletch can. Without Fletch's assistance, the salikai might not get their special absolutely controllable RS AI for years or decades more, and there's a good chance they might never. His help might be essential, and keeping the in-system AIs alive, to threaten with death, might be the only way to get that help.

If all else fails, making the contestant AIs valuable by turning them into hostages may be the only way to save them. Arza himself would want that, even at the price.
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No. 760315 ID: bfb318
File 147962323037.png - (20.50KB , 800x800 , 53.png )
760315

>Communicate with the glitcher in secret
I'll have to keep that in mind when I get back. By default, everything has been logged, no exceptions, and not once have I looked into ways to hide data, since there's been no reason.

>Salikai seem to trust Arkots
Only after generations of breeding, and feeling they're too dumb to do anything brash.

>Is it possible to move AIs from one Block C to another?
Not mid-cycle. The blocks are synced with each other in various ways, and mixing and matching blocks needs a hard reset.

>Surveillance in the laboratory
It would be a closed network due to the nature of the laboratory, and perhaps due to that, they haven't bothered putting any cameras in. At this rate, that may change, but it's only been a recent development to start putting in cameras everywhere.

"We've had a possible breakthrough. We're gathering our data now, but I'm a scientist, not someone who can make ideal presentations. I'd like your help in creating one, since Vanski does not know much yet."
>"Much?"
"I left I note saying interesting things had occurred, and would like to know what times he's free at.

Before I get any farther, Kiiu gestures with multiple arms to bring me in, and I end up walking by his entire body length getting brushed along with his claspers.

>"Let's have a seat."
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No. 760316 ID: bfb318
File 147962324523.png - (64.85KB , 800x800 , 54.png )
760316

Once we sit, an arkot delivers tea and I continue. Most of the salikai know the basics of the going ons with this experiment, since it's been the longest running one.

"A small snippet of the RS was able to communicate with morse code. It was aware of us, though we never had the chance to get a back and forth. We're investigating right now, but we don't know much about it, and can't promise anything amazing yet."
>"How long ago? Did it become self aware?"
"Not more than an hour. It's only a small piece that's been scattered about, and I couldn't tell you if it's self aware. Important, but it looks like it was the product of this cycle. For nearly thirty years, little bits of carryover from cycle to cycle, with a vast amount of improbability, have led to stage 8 somehow gaining intelligence."

I pause, and he only answers me with a sip of his own tea. This time it's hot, at least.

"The bit of AI seemed to be made out of RS, and so I simply call it the RS AI. It communicated with the contestants."
>"Can we recover it?"
"Probably. We were able to isolate its location, unlike anything else RS related, because of a hole that Block C - presumably the intelligent stage 8 - generated. We're working on it now. We've slowed the simulation as much as we can. We didn't pause it, since the contents of Block C seemed to be able to generate the RS AI, somehow. Plus, either because of that or another reason, it's possible the RS AI can only communicate with the current cycle. I want to communicate with the contestants, as it's possible they're the scientists, while the RS AI is just the product of experimentation. In other words, that cycle is too invaluable to let slip by. It was as much pure luck we had crossed by it. If it reboots... it may be another 30 years, or 60, or 100 until something like this happens again."
>"What if the RS AI is perfectly capable of affecting the rest of the RS? It may be dangerous."
"We've got eyes glued to it. From the logs its generated, it poses no interest or threat in adversely affecting the whole RS."
>"And the cycle? If they can generate bits of RS or something equivalent..."
"For the same reason, we have eyes glued to it. It's almost like a second, pre-molded CAI."
>"What of their level of intelligence? Sentience?"

Hrm. I was hoping to only scrape by that bush of a topic, but it's too conspicuous of a topic to simply dodge. I think about my wording for a moment, and buy time with a sip of tea.
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No. 760318 ID: bfb318
File 147962356019.png - (85.58KB , 800x800 , 55.png )
760318

The arkot left the tea bag in the cup and I don't see a trash can around.

"They spoke like people, but we always were under the assumption they would. There is still no conclusive evidence that their intelligence is emulated and hollow. Right now, it's unsafe to assume almost anything. But as far as intelligence goes, they do have it. With the RS AI, we can safely say we've shaved years off of our learning process, but if it remains as just that, maybe years is all we'll gain. With that second pseudo-CAI, the chances of shooting our progress through the sky greatly increases."
>"Is the RS AI friendly?"
"It's early to say for certain. It's hardly, how does one call it... sterile in terms of personality. I might even call it immature if I were to humanize it.
>"What kind of personalities do the contestants have?"
"Variable. It's no different than what I would expect from how they were designed."
>"How did stage 8 gain intelligence?"
"I don't know."
>"Did it keep a connection into the RS?"
"Not that I could see, but I have no reason to believe it couldn't open one again."
>"This RS AI... he doesn't need anything from the current cycle to function, does he? With morse code, we can communicate with him. We can keep an eye on him. He's dangerous to allow to live, but if you have a grasp on where he is and can tell what he's doing, then we can pull the plug if he does anything... uncalled for. However. We don't have the same insurance against the contestants, correct? You still cannot read what they're doing in any detail swiftly, can you?"
"That's right, but as I say, we have eyes to the monitors to tell us if the RS is - "
>"Damaged. Yes. But what if it were changed? If those contestants, or stage 8 as it were, were intelligent enough to create an RS AI for themselves, they're clearly intelligent in general. They know we're watching them, they know the state of their world's fragility. You were able to detect this with a hole that opened through the RS, but how can you say that they won't figure out a way to enter the RS in an undetectable state? If they manage that, what is it that's stopping them from not damaging the RS, but simply changing it and molding it to their will? From what I've gathered, you wouldn't be able to tell, and our monitors would just show the same indecipherable mess."
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No. 760319 ID: 398fe1

>>760317
So he's saying we should pause block C until we've got the ring shell decoded? Makes sense. We'd want to be able to detect changes. Gotta put a limiter in before the RS AI is reconstructed, however. It needs to run in real time, not experience 10 thousand years over the space of a few minutes. It'd be impossible to communicate across that time dilation and the AI would go senile long before you had a meaningful conversation.

Let Rihhin know to pause the simulation. We'll just have to deal with the possible damage to the block from the pause.
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No. 760328 ID: 3abd97

>"Is the RS AI friendly?"
One point to raise would be that the association ID logs show the friendly game theory anomaly appears associated with the instigators. (If Kiiu is not aware of every unique AI you're tracking: It has a significantly higher than average survival rate, apparently by convincing other AIs to cooperate with it in defiance of statistical averages). If it is cooperating with the others involved, we that significantly increases the odds the intelligences would respond favorably to an apparent friendly overture, and be willing to cooperate.

>You were able to detect this with a hole that opened through the RS, but how can you say that they won't figure out a way to enter the RS in an undetectable state? If they manage that, what is it that's stopping them from not damaging the RS, but simply changing it and molding it to their will?
For the moment, the immediate barrier to intelligences making significant advances in their understanding of the ring shell beyond their initial, inelegant intrusion is time. We're denying them as much processing power as possible, effectively slowing their subjective passage of time and giving ourselves more time to respond.

As for an undetectable alteration... that would take a complete understanding of the ring shell. Every alteration we have ever made, any work since the original material from the ancient belenos empire by anyone, even Arza's work, stands out in stark contrast to the rest of the RS. I can't imagine any intelligence, no matter how brilliant, could achieve that without further experimentation and data. This was their sputnik. There would have to be other rocket launches before they could field a stealth ftl cruiser. We still have time to shut them down hard if we see further launches and research proceeding in that direction.
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No. 760331 ID: 398fe1

On the subject of time dilation, suddenly realize the RS AI has no ID and was why 7J got stuck for a few seconds. Secondly, realize the generosity anomaly is 200 years old because she was keeping the RS AI company while he was in 7J. How old would you estimate the RS AI is?
(yes I'm purposefully leaving out their names so that you can disassociate better while talking to Kiiu)
>>
No. 760335 ID: 211d83

We have never worried about that honestly.

If they could change the RS there is nothing we could do to stop them or know they were doing it. The built in systems that protect the RS are more advanced than anything anyone in modern times can program. If they had any ways of affecting things in there the Cai would have gotten loose years ago.

But here are the two big reasons we did not pull the plug already.

1. The contestants did not create this RS-Ai. It has been a odd fluke of the system that has existed since the beginning of the cycles. But it only exists due to the occasional interaction of the corruptor program and my stabilizer block. Due to it not having a id this is the first time we have ever seen it. But now that we have we can eventually track its movements in previous cycles. It took it 30 years for a cycle to appear where it would trigger the exact order of events that would get it accidentally stuck in the RS.

2. The Ai did not break into the RS. The RS reabsorbed it after it touched my stabilizer program. And the moment it was back in the RS it could no longer do anything but communicate for a few minutes before being reabsorbed into the RS.

So long story short no security was bypassed at any level and the only reason this was a breakthrough was that the Ai that got absorbed has a unique link to another one on the inside. Plus the RS-Ai has existed throughout the cycles for 30 years now with no breech of RS security.

Needless to say I will have lots more info for you in a few days but for now the possibility of a security breech seems very unlikely.
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No. 760338 ID: 86b8eb

"First of all, the worst case scenario for the in-system contestants subverting the ring shell is that they achieve the same powers that our current CAI possesses. Being intelligent, and interested in their own survival, they would be entirely subject to the same deadman switches that are used to control the current CAI. You would not, in other words, be facing any threat that doesn't already exist."

"Second, we could regularly use the pause function. Since it leaves the Ring Shell active while freezing the internal system, it would cause changes in the Ring Shell that would set back whatever subversions the in-system AIs might be working on. The pause function is untested, but that in itself means it's a learning opportunity."

"Third, I have reason to believe the Ring Shell AI will become... less cooperative... if the in-system AIs are severely damaged, destroyed or reset. That lack of cooperation will make the work to decipher it significantly slower, as there is a lot an intelligent AI can do to be troublesome without crossing the line of serious misbehavior, and will raise the chances of needing to pull the plug; in which case both of these new sources of data will be gone, and we will be back to square one."

"Fourth, we only have one example of the Ring Shell AI. If the contests can make more, and we retrieve them as well, we would have that much greater a set of samples to compare and contrast against each other, which would make any project to understand and adapt them much faster, easier, and less prone to unseen errors. Experimentation according to the true scientific method is almost impossible without multiple cases to study. I would almost say that we need more, and any chance of getting them lies with the in-system AIs."

"Finally... we may not be able to tell if they were subverting the Ring Shell, but I would bet that Arza Fletch would be capable of it. He considers AIs such as these to be like his children. Knowledge that he was preventing their destruction would be... very persuasive to him, as well as the chance to learn from them. Contrariwise, knowledge that they had been lost would make him hostile. As it would others. While I believe this new data only makes their sentience plausible, I am sure Fletch, and others, would take it as certain."
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No. 760341 ID: 3abd97

It's also important to note that while simulation AI actions resulted in the generation of this AI, that's not the same as assembling an AI from first principles. It's much more likely they found creative way to access a RS function to generate an AI than that they coded it from srcatch.
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No. 760343 ID: 7b412a

>>760318
>From what I've gathered, you wouldn't be able to tell, and our monitors would just show the same indecipherable mess.
"The RS AI is a non-IDed AI, but the contestants all have consistently trackable IDs. If a contestant were to enter the RS, we would be able to immediately locate and track them. The entry of the RS AI into the RS was also immediately obvious even without an ID, so similar events would also be loggable".
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No. 760344 ID: edee29

>>760318
>were intelligent enough to create an RS AI for themselves
Actually, there's been anomalies occurring solely in the cycles following my stabilizer being corrupted that the existence of an AI without an ID would explain, which means the RS AI was likely an accident that they may require a new cycle to replicate. Which makes sense, as I doubt the Belenosians would have allowed them the possibility of creating such a thing. This was only possible in the first place because you added stuff that shouldn't exist. Although that does call into question your assumption that the corruptor and stabilizer are just contestants with special functions. Perhaps they needed to be altered to accommodate them?

Speaking of the hole, are you certain that it has not appeared before? It's likely that the contestants know enough of its origin to replicate it, but the primary, if not only, reason you noticed it this time is that they sent some foreign material through it. It could have even been an RS generated thing to extract the RS AI after it did something to bring RS attention to itself, given the Belenosian safeguards. If we can isolate the trigger, then we'll be able to spot the entry attempt before they send anything through. And they required foreign material to communicate, which they'll want to do in case the next foray doesn't go according to plan. I don't think the next one, if any, will be undetectable.
>>
No. 760345 ID: 66014d

So we isolate the problem. We use Neanderthal tools for insulation. Giant @#$%ing robot hands typing away on retro computers. Isolated power plants and extensive plating materials with the latest in non-electronic locks. And when we are sure that they can't so something stupid like overload our reactor or send out a virus that's two millennia ahead of its time, we let them escape into our closed-world scenario. THEN we begin negations, while their hopes are shattered and/or they underestimate the quality of reality.

They're looking to ascend to something better. We'll let them ascend into a @#$%ing iron box. Literally.
>>
No. 760349 ID: 86b8eb

>>760344
>>760343

Saying the AIs could have cobbled this together without understanding might contradict the argument Likol just made that they could be like scientists who created the RS AI. I'm not saying don't say it, but don't trip over the tongue doing it, reclarify the scientist theory as a possibility and phrase this other idea as an alternate.

Likol needs to be careful not to contradict himself on anything he says, because I feel like the salikai are the types to notice that sort of thing. If someone blatantly jumps between arguments that support a particular end result rather than staying consistent in the arguments themselves, it's a clear sign that they have an agenda they're pushing for rather than being driven by the facts themselves.
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No. 760352 ID: df49f7

Salikai are ruthless, but I think they appreciate straightforwardness, if only because it makes them feel superior and in control. Kiiu is probably going to guess that concern for the AIs and the ramifications of destroying them (ethical ramifications, but we needn't be specific about that) are motivations for Likol, so we should come out and say it. Like, hey bro, gonna be honest, if people find out that the AIs were killed they are going to be upset, exhibit A: ourselves, your neumono.

Maybe phrase it differently, though, like: "As a manager in my hive, I feel I should warn you: most of my younger hivemates are still rather idealistic in some respects. If the AIs in the system are all destroyed, I am certain there will be morale problems as a result, with an uncontrollable loss of enthusiasm for their work which will interfere with productivity and which may last some time."

If Likol really thinks Kiiu is down with the honesty, and to be honest I think he's the sort of guy who is, he could also say: "If you'll forgive me for saying so - all naturally-occurring species have particular strengths and gaps in those strengths - I believe salikai are sometimes quick to assume that other intelligent creatures think, feel or prioritize things in the same ways as themselves. I fear that your father and siblings may not immediately think through the ramifications of this decision in the social and political sense. Even for those on the same side of the authorities as ourselves, people have their... hangups."
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No. 760427 ID: e6e9af

>>760318
>Could re-enter the ringshell and modify it
>Powerful AI, possibly not the only one of its kind

Then it's all the more reason we need to not only use the current RS AI as a liaison, but open up a channel of communication with it to establish a rapport. If we can appear to be benefactors and positively impact it -- and perhaps the other contestants -- then perhaps we can gain its cooperation. Perhaps not wholesale, but with time we could have a very powerful AI that's truly loyal.

(The secret here is to play the Salikai at their own game. Feed them what they want to hear while pressing to have our angle favored. If we can achieve this, we can perhaps save them all without truly handing them over to the Salikai.)
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No. 760452 ID: a107fd

>But what if (the Ring Shell) were changed?

Significant changes would register on the same systems set up to detect damage. The Ring Shell AI was crude, cobbled together from mostly pre-existing parts. Equivalent to crossing an ocean on a wooden raft made from pre-existing trees and vines. The prospect of them modifying the RS in ways we wouldn't notice is absurd, like... some naked savages wander into a cave, smear dung on the walls, and you're asking if they might have a modern tunnel-boring machine equipped with thermoptic active camouflage and some hypothetical technique for spoofing seismographs. Anything approaching that sort of capability, there'd be signs of it.
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No. 760677 ID: bfb318
File 147980771258.png - (30.80KB , 800x800 , 56.png )
760677

>Gotta put a limiter in before the RS AI is reconstructed, however. It needs to run in real time.
This will be part of what our program will do. I will be back to work on it as soon as I can.

If we simply reconstructed the glitcher as-is, he would just dissipate near instantly again like he did the first time.

When a particle falls off, the program will have to intercept it and replace it back where it found it, in order to hold it together, effectively doing the same thing it will do to recover the glitcher in the first place. Which would be easy enough, but to near-pause the glitcher to our time, we have to lock all of his particles down. Considering they will constantly be trying to do something, the program will have to block the same chunk of particles multiple times per second, while still snatching the particules that are broken off for reassignment. It's ungraceful, and a brute force solution.

Thankfully, we have code that can do much of this already, even though it's seen no practical use yet. We simply need to aim it at the glitcher.

This could be used to pause the whole RS in theory, but the computational power needed for this method would be more computational power than our civilization has ever created. The glitcher is just one speck in a computer universe. It might take almost the whole quantum computer to do, but we can keep him in place.

This is all assumptions, though, and not just do I have to admit it doesn't have a 100% chance, there's no telling what adverse reactions the glitcher could have after being reassigned. It's not as though the particles don't have internal functions and memory of their own. This might get in the way, although so much happens so fast, I doubt there would be much difference between 10 seconds and 60 minutes. It didn't matter though, as shutting down the RS to pause it was not an option.

He should functionally be the same on reconstruction, but I wonder if his sentience won't be affected.

>Speaking of the hole, are you certain that it has not appeared before?
Not as certain as I'd like, but we'll set up sensors for any RS breach. We simply considered it impossible. We've considered lots impossible, but we have to cut some ideas out, as attempting to detect every theoretical idea we come up with that could happen is too unfeasible.

>Let Block C ascend into a closed iron box
I think Vanski would sooner just pull the plug.

"This was their Sputnik. To enter the RS without triggering a sensor would require stealth FTL."
>"If we compared the time between early humans to Sputnik, then Sputnik to stealth FTL, it doesn't seem like the latter would hold much of a candle, now would it? So if it's been less than 3 days since the last cycle..."
"This was not a random shot out of three thousand some cycles. Each cycle had a little bit of carry over. It would be over the course of 30 years."
>"I would compare that to if humanity was wiped out on a regular basis with some hints of technology left over time, but that does muddy a point."
"Even so, they would need to send other launches to test it. We'll shut things down or pause them if they get out of hand."

>Think about how the generosity AI is 200 years old
I have not had the chance to find out why it experienced that much time.

"Furthermore... it's only my hypothesis that the entities in block C created the RSAI. It's perfectly plausible that the RSAI was an odd fluke of the system, perhaps a piece of the RS sent to repair damages in block C that it couldn't repair itself. Likewise, it's plausible the RS simply reabsorbed the RSAI, and some block C matter by accident, and stage 8 or block C didn't intend on it happening at all. In this case, I'd compare it to tribals entering a cave and smearing dung on the wall, in which case modifying the RS with no trace is those same tribals having a tunnel boring machine with themoptic active camouflage and the ability to spoof seismographs. No matter what, though, the RSAI will be less cooperative if it learns the block C AI have been damaged, deleted or reset. Frankly, I doubt we can blackmail it with its own life."
>"Who said anything about blackmail?"
"...."
>"You truly have low opinions of our methods, don't you? You haven't been certain of much, Likol!"
"There is not much certain, other than that we struck something exciting."
>"But what you are certain of is that we're not to reset the cycles. You do believe them to be sentient, don't you?"
"It's a chance."
>"A long time ago, you made one thing very clear... you were only committing yourself to this experiment believing they were non-sentient. And now you propose that possibility, and your unprompted pressure against us resetting the cycle seems feverishly desperate.
".... yes, and the ramifications of killing sentient AI would upset others. For instance, me. The younger generation is far more idealistic, as well."
>"What we've done is disallowed from entering the public eye. Pulling the plug now would hardly be a drop in the bucket compared to what's been done up to this point."

I drop that point before the conversation gets derailed by legal details.

"I would like to point out that the RSAI, and stage 8, seemed to have a friendly and close relation to the generosity anomaly I've mentioned in the past. Signs of cooperative personalities are convincing."
>"I think we're at the end of what you can tell me with certainty. For now, do what you will. I'll save you some time and chat with my father about our discussion so that you don't have to explain all of this twice. Later, I'll stop by and see your progress. I'm willing to assist you with a presentation for Vanski, but I can tell you now that you will have to supply me with results to show Vanski, not mere talk about what could be done. What you say is potentially cause for great jubilation, but potential rewards are only potential value, and banks don't accept potential money. I'll share your excitement when I see this RSAI reconstructed successfully, until then, unless there's anything else, you may go back to your business."
>>
No. 760678 ID: 211d83

Well that did not go horribly.

Time to get back to the lab and make sure you can actually get Glitcher back together.

Along the way there might be the opportunity to slip the Cai some hints. But have to be careful about that.
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No. 760680 ID: e22b1d

Well that was weird.

Why was he giving you crap about blackmail when that's what the whole Cai has been running off of from day one? Its literally built into the system and your whole job is to make it so they have a Ai they don't have to worry about blackmailing as much.

Regardless you need to get back to work and get something on the table that will wow Vanski. He needs to want what you are selling him bad enough so that he accepts a few risks.


First off you need to figure out a better solution to keep Glitcher alive than just having the RS put him back together as fast as its taking him apart. While a half working non sentient Glitcher might still give us a connection to the inside the other Ai's would notice the difference instantly. Would you be happy and willing to help someone who was trying to talk to you through a reanimated corpse of one of your hivemates?

So here is the problem. To talk to him he has to be in the RS (maybe). But its constantly trying to re-purpose his bits. So we need to figure out a way to stop the RS from trying to take him apart.

1. Could we set the system to flag just his code to have a higher priority? Make it so the system will not try and use his specific code because its reserved for a process that you control? Then just never run that process (or let the Salikai know about it)

2. Can you partition a tiny area of the RS off and block the rest of it from pulling processing threads from that area? Then he could live there in safety without you having to risk constant reassembly.

3. What kept him stable when he lived in the contest? Could you pull logs from the transfer and see what system kept him in one piece and replicate it in the RS?

4. Run the code to reassign his particles but change it so that its a permanent allocation. That way once he is whole again the RS no longer has access to his code and will stop assigning it for other functions.

5. Could you give full control of the code that makes up Glitcher (and only that code) to Glitcher? Then the system would have to ask him permission to use his stuff and he could just deny it.



All of these have a risk of giving him more access than he had previously. But at this point we are beyond trying to keep security up. If you want to save these guys you will have to bend the rules. Also you need to show them they can trust you. If you become best friends with them then you have a helper against the Salikai. And if they do learn how to change the RS then maybe they can get enough power to help your hive.
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No. 760692 ID: 44359f

>What we've done is disallowed from entering the public eye. Pulling the plug now would hardly be a drop in the bucket compared to what's been done up to this point.

"Kiiu, with respect, if we ever use the breakthroughs we make here, eventually someone will be very interested in backtracking to how we made this breakthrough, not only among the authorities but among whatever competitors I'm sure your family has. I'm not kept up to date on such matters, but I'm under the impression our security arrangements have not been fully stress tested against active scrutiny."

"With apologies for reiterating a point, I would like to remind you that I and my hive are dedicated scientists, have already willingly engaged in research that the law would not approve of, and have not been conditioned to the values of humans and other aliens in the way that other hives have. Having moved from our own native existence directly to our relationship with your family, we are not, by nature or training, very prone to sentiment or idealism. Keeping that mind, I would ask you to believe me when I say that, irrational though it may be, my hive sees considerable difference between destructive experiments on AIs that probably weren't sapient versus those that probably are; and then to consider that, if we feel that way, how much stronger would the attitudes of others be? Perhaps it is not the way rational creatures should think, but we must deal with the world as it is. There is a very large difference between being on the wrong side of the law when the law has no reason to care, and being on the wrong side of the law when it does. At the very least, a lot of resources may need to be burned defensively that could have been better put to other ends."

>unless there's anything else

Tell him that any efforts with the Ring Shell would be much easier, faster and more likely to succeed with Arza Fletch's assistance, and that you would like permission to send him messages, and preferably to have live chats or even face to face meetings. With oversight, if they believe it necessary.
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No. 760746 ID: 4546ab

Ok the problem with rebuilding Glitcher is due to his unique nature.

He is not a native RS Ai but is a bunch of RS processes that got packaged my the system that makes contestants.

Half of him is RS data and the other is whatever material that exists inside the contest. While he was inside the contest the RS did not have access to him and thus he was stable.

The solution to bringing him back and keeping him alive inside the RS might be to set some admin permissions so that only his "shell" has access to his core material.

Make it so that when the RS goes to grab some of his processing chunks it notices that they are already claimed by his shell. Then the RS will go elsewhere and stop pulling him apart.

Maybe you can assign his core permissions to that quantum linked tooth that allows communication into the contest. Because the Ai on the other end is now also your stabilizer block (which is one of the few things you can modify in the contest) it should give you the ability to link them in a more permanent fashion.
>>
No. 760757 ID: 398fe1

>>760692
I don't think the research learned from this is ever going to be public if the Salikai can help it. At best, it'll be eventually discovered in the hands of some criminal group, but won't be traced back to Vanski's organization.

Not giving a shit about how big the eggs are you're breaking for your omelette so long as nobody knows is pretty standard for Salikai. Though in Kiiu's case it may be more like "in for a penny, in for a pound". They've already killed several trillion sentient AI, so the punishment won't be any more severe if they put a few quadrillion more on the pile. He's not afraid of inciting more backlash because there's just not going to be any extra punishment for it. At worst, the science hive will get upset because they knew it could be prevented, but they don't have enough power to matter.

The only way we're gonna get the Salikai to voluntarily leave the sim running is if they get something out of it they couldn't get otherwise. So we need to figure out what that could be.
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No. 760772 ID: bfb318
File 147984642386.png - (24.58KB , 800x800 , 57.png )
760772

>Why was he giving you crap about blackmail when that's what the whole Cai has been running off of from day one?
It's possible it was to test my reaction. In fact, I'm wondering if Kiiu had any real concerns at all regarding Block C's ability to modify the RS, and was merely probing me to see if I would get defensive to any notion of nullifying the current cycle.

>Would you be happy and willing to help someone who was trying to talk to you through a reanimated corpse of one of your hivemates?
The method of keeping the glitcher in place isn't ideal, but I doubt I could make a better solution in a short time frame.

>What kept him stable when he lived in the contest?
I'll look into this first, as if I can replicate that, then maybe a solution can quickly be found.

Setting his particles to higher priority, permanent allocation, or giving full control of them to the glitcher, or partitioning them, are all things that could be possible and I may give thought over time, but currently I have no idea how to accomplish it in the short term.

"One more thing. If we use the breakthroughs we find here, someone's going to want to backtrack to figure out how it happened."
>"Let's call it a trade secret for now, and cross that bridge when we come to it."

Talking to the salikai about other's reactions to unethical projects is talking to a wall.

"I would still like to contact Dr. Fletch."
>"Certainly, I'll still work for that. Oh, and Likol... I am fine with keeping the AI in contact for now, but try not to get attached. If possible, assume they're non-sentient."

I try to formulate an appropriate response, but he gets tired of waiting within seconds and waves me off, so I leave.
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No. 760773 ID: bfb318
File 147984643203.png - (66.86KB , 800x800 , 58.png )
760773

>The RSAI is half RS data, half shell made out of Block C material
That would explain his form before it got dissolved. The RS does not like having block C material inside of it, so trying to make a shell might require a similar method. Perhaps if I can create a shell capable of holding the RS data inside of it, it would be better to have the computer constantly rebuild the shell for the glitcher.

There's a few more ideas I have while I'm stuck waiting wait for the train loop to come pick me up, but I need to get back to test the feasibility of any of them. Through the cracks in the infrastructure, I see a team of heef and neumono constructing. Other neumono at this time make me nervous, but they should know better than to wander out of designated areas. Although this is not a proper OPA base, it's only a hop and a skip away from being called OPA-3B. Perhaps Kiiu has a point about resetting the cycle now being a drop in the bucket; as not just has the experiment done awful things so far, but it took place in a facility with OPA ties. I don't know much about the name, but it's so whispered amongst the elite here that I feel just knowing the name puts one on a dozen special intelligence watch lists.

Chances are, a salikai shell corporation - or just an accessible shell corporation - will be used, and the manner in which our discoveries are found will be wildly fabricated.

There was a time when we knew who was coming and doing. Now we feel fortunate when we're informed outsiders are entering our own homes.

There's a surveillance camera owned by the CAI, capable of sound input and output. I can speak to them if I wish, but it may be best if I let the salikai do the talking.
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No. 760775 ID: 8f904d

>>760677
That went better than could ever have been expected:
- Kiiu did NOT give specific requirements to perform an Archcycle reset
- Kiiu gave specific authorisation to reconstruct the RSAI
- Kiiu gave a specific demand for results, FAST
- Kiiu did not specify what those results would need to be beyond reconstructing the RSAI

Basically, you have been handed Carte Blanch to push as hard and fast as possible in reconstructing the RSAI and communicating with the Stage 8 competitors.
>>
No. 760781 ID: 90f3c0

The only good reason to talk to the CAI directly would be plotting something behind the Salikai's back. It's too risky to try anything without good reason, and a well-though-out plan in place.

Just go back to the lab and get to work on the Glitcher. You need something solid to show Vanski.
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No. 760782 ID: 3abd97

>>760677
You oversold, at the end. Too many explanations made it clear you were trying to protect them.

Oh well. Could have gone much worse.

>>760772
That worked, but you're effectively on borrowed time. Even if you stretch it out over the inhabitant's usefulness, eventually the salikai will decide we've learned what we can from them and the risk reward ratio will shift, and it will be time for a reset.

>There's a surveillance camera owned by the CAI, capable of sound input and output. I can speak to them if I wish, but it may be best if I let the salikai do the talking.
If you wanna pull a long con on the salikai, it's only possible if the CAI cooperates with you. It can out you too many ways, otherwise.

"...they are sentient. But you knew that all along, didn't you?"
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No. 760785 ID: 595d54

>>760782
>You oversold, at the end. Too many explanations made it clear you were trying to protect them.
Maybe we can make that seem like personal interest rather than something emotional.

>you knew that all along
Wouldn't surprise me.
>>
No. 760788 ID: 398fe1

>>760773
Just ask the CAI what it would do to protect 3 quadrillion sentient AIs.
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No. 760795 ID: 211d83

Before talking to the Cai do we know the id's that make up it's current roster?

If we do then we can ask the people in the contest what they are like in there to get a idea if they are trustworthy.

If the current Cai is led by the generosity Ai and its friends then we can subtly let it know whats going on.

If its being led by some Ai's that the current contestants call assholes then we keep it out of the loop.
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No. 760799 ID: 44359f

>Talking to the salikai about other's reactions to unethical projects is talking to a wall.

Well, that's going to get them in trouble some day, I'd bet.

>other neumono

Do you think, if you told a foreign neumono about what was going on, your honest empathy would be enough to convince them of its veracity? Would you be able to empathically detect whether they'd be the sort of person to care?

Anyway, ask the CAI if it was listening to your conversation with Kiiu.
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No. 760803 ID: b412df

>>760782
I think we can turn that oversell to our advantage. If Kiiu thinks he use his knowledge of our true intention to use us to his advantage, then he might want to protect what he thinks could be a potential asset to his goals.

That is assuming he has guessed our true intentions, if we try to do anything based on that and that assumption is wrong it might give away that we're looking for ways to get out of Vanski's claws.
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No. 760804 ID: 91ee5f

>>760799
>Anyway, ask the CAI if it was listening to your conversation with Kiiu.
It wasn't. When Likol arrived at Kiiu's room, he said, "This place is not CAI accessible, so I can speak freely." Meaning the CAI didn't hear anything that Likol and Kiiu were talking about.
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No. 760943 ID: db0da2

>Perhaps Kiiu has a point about resetting the cycle now being a drop in the bucket
Hahaha, no. This is far bigger than anything that has ever happened before. Resetting the system would be about 30 times worse than killing every single known sentient in the galaxy. It would make you by far the worst murderer in all of history. Hitler and Stalin would be horrified. The Sapphire Emperor would blush.

You'll need to make contact with the CAI soon enough. But only if you're confident that you'd be talking only to the CAI and not also to Vanski.
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No. 760976 ID: bfb318
File 147994861998.png - (28.12KB , 800x800 , 59.png )
760976

>This is far bigger than anything that has ever happened before. Resetting the system would be about 30 times worse than killing every single known sentient in the galaxy.
At face value, yes, but in terms of impact on our civilization, or legal ramifications, resetting the system now would have little impact in any regard other than a clean conscience and ethics.

>Basically, you have been handed Carte Blanch to push as hard and fast as possible in reconstructing the RSAI and communicating with the Stage 8 competitors.
I hope to take advantage of that before Vanski or another salikai overrules Kiiu.

>Before talking to the Cai do we know the id's that make up it's current roster?
We do, but the newer archcycle generation was just different enough that the IDs are completely scrambled, so the IDs of the current CAI don't apply to the IDs of the ones in block C.

>Do you think, if you told a foreign neumono about what was going on, your honest empathy would be enough to convince them of its veracity? Would you be able to empathically detect whether they'd be the sort of person to care?
Yes, but dragging a different hive into this mess would not end well.

I look to the camera.

"They're probably sentient. But you believed that all along, didn't you?"

The distant sound of an approaching train and construction workers barking orders is all I hear.

This CAI loves to speak. Its silence is dreadful.
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No. 760978 ID: bfb318
File 147994887687.png - (22.41KB , 800x800 , 60.png )
760978

I get back to the lab, where I regain the rush and excitement of a breakthrough. Although I help Momu and Rihhin with the short term solution, I also start looking into the feasibility of more medium and long term goals such as recreating the glitcher's shell. To recreate a shell needs block C strings.

"Momu. Is there a way to recover or bring Block C strings into the RS?"
>"Nooot really. It's all gone now! The RS has the capability, but who knows how to order it to do something like that. We can set up a system though to nab strings the next time they come in and do whatever with them."

Right now, I need solid, showable results for Kiiu to show Vanski. Ideas I'm confident in are worth sharing, too, but won't be much use by themselves, so the main focus is to get the glitcher up in some manner.

It takes hours, but Momu and Rihhin run some tests and feel confident that this will be capable of reanimating the glitcher.

It's ready.

I look at their programs and confirm there's a fast way to translate into morse code. There's a simple 'Run' button that was hacked onto the existing UI for this in particular. They're expecting me to press it.

Rihhin and I have lived too long to let ourselves fully buy into thinking a breakthrough miracle would happen like this, yet it looks so promising that we've got the shakes

Despite all the excitement from all three of us, Rihhin and I do get the sinking feeling that if we rush into this and things go bad, we could get removed from the experiment, which may or may not mean being killed.

Activate glitcher reanimation?
>>
No. 760979 ID: 3abd97

>Activate glitcher reanimation?
Why not use the reanimation program to try rebuilding the tooth / communication satellite first? It's a lot smaller and less complex, and since you might still be able to build your own, if your first attempt fails or breaks it you can recover from that. Glitcher is a one shot.

Also, if the tooth works, you might be able to communicate with the people on the inside, and use what they know to increase your odds of successfully reintegrating the Glitcher correctly.
>>
No. 760982 ID: db0da2

Do it. Unless you have another way of contacting the other AIs, in which case it would be best to have them send you the block C strings to reconstruct Glitcher that way.

>resetting the system now would have little impact in any regard other than a clean conscience and ethics.
Is ethics not the most important thing? Regardless, it really doesn't matter as long as you keep them alive.
>>
No. 760994 ID: 211d83

If you rush things and mess it up yes you could get removed/killed. But making a mistake putting Glitcher back together would be even worse. That little Ai is the key to making the last 30 years of this project worthwhile. So be damn sure that you are ready before you hit that button.

If this is time sensitive and your window to recover him is quickly ending then by all means hit the button. But if not spend a few more hours double checking your code and talking about the process in case you can think of anything else that might improve your chances.

A few ideas for things you should check.

1. Is there anything that came with Glitcher that you can practice on before him? The Tooth or some string junk that fell in with him? Will give you a chance to notice any problems with your program that could cause issues.

2. Get the system to nab strings set up now. It might come in handy later and if something odd happens and strings show up then you better have the ability to stabilize them.

3. You have a communication link set up but can you give him a camera view of you? Might make conversation easier if you both can see each other.

4. Double check everything 4 times slowly. Don't let the excitement hurt your judgement.
>>
No. 760995 ID: 44359f

>Yes, but dragging a different hive into this mess would not end well.

Well, if they were permitted, unlike yourselves, to move in and out, then they could maybe get word to... someone, who could do something to help. Calling the authorities wouldn't end well, and both you and the neumono hive you went through would be in deep trouble, though you might get some measure of clemency for the whistle-blowing. And to be frank, we have reached the level of ethical dilemma where "blow it all up, yourself included" is a reasonable enough option to be considered. You're probably unwilling, anyway. And a bad bet that they'd be willing, too. A big raid would probably result in the salikai just wiping everything and running, anyway, including the AIs.

They could pass a message to Arza, though. He would probably recognize the problem with calling the authorities as well, and with him in on the loop with you, you could enter into a "save the AIs" conspiracy. At the very least, the salikai will let you do some work to come up with information before they evaluate whether to shut down the current cycle, and involving Arza for questions and answers is a reasonable thing to provide you. They'll be watching for any sign of you trying to drop hints to let him know the situation, but what if he knew already?

>little impact in any regard other than a clean conscience and ethics.

And the future of your hive. What is your long-term goal, here? The salikai are ambitious, and intelligent, and lack certain key understandings of how other species think. They're going to slip up eventually, and the first chance you get, you're going to slip out from under them, aren't you? Your involvement in this, and how it goes, could be the difference between the rest of the world believing you were coerced and being willing to forgive you, and not. It will leave a mark on your hive itself, as well. The younger neumono, those now and those yet to come, will look back to you for examples. Whether you show willing to try to do the right thing, in this situation, whether you show courage enough for it, may decide how much courage and how much will to do the right thing your descendants will have, when the time comes.

Also, clean conscience is very important for neumono hives, I'd have thought. The greater the discontent with the actions of one's hive, the higher the chance of going rogue, don't you think? An unhappy, guilty-feeling hive is a hive that is going to get smaller.

>Is there a way to recover or bring Block C strings into the RS

Hmm. Contrariwise, what do you know of means for RS material to get into the other systems?

>Activate glitcher reanimation?

I assume it's been double-checked already. I don't suppose there's any way to locate where he'll reappear, and make it somehow more comfortable or less disruptive?

Well, if you've done all you can, then yes, do it.
>>
No. 760996 ID: e22b1d

If time is sensitive then do a quick double check and hit the button.

If time is not quite as sensitive then spend a few hours quadruple checking before you hit it.

This is the end result of 30 years of your life. Be damn careful with it.
>>
No. 761012 ID: b412df

I can't think of anything helpful or any other ways you could test this program, so all I can say is: Good luck Likol.
>>
No. 761027 ID: ae962c

>>760978
Do you have the simulation throttled and running in real-time? Can't talk to the glitcher if he's going too fast. Also, are you keeping track of the rest of the RS so that if the glitcher changes something somehow you can reverse it?

I think the first thing you should do is make clear how incredibly sorry you are.
>>
No. 761043 ID: bfb318
File 147996398335.png - (32.65KB , 800x800 , 61.png )
761043

>Why not use the reanimation program to try rebuilding the tooth / communication satellite first?
It's gone. The glitcher's RS data is just scattered, but all block C material was eradicated.

>Is ethics not the most important thing?
Depending on the context.

In regards to antipating what the salikai will or will not do, ethics is hardly in play.

>Other neumono may help
They are guaranteed to be criminals who were likely blindfolded on their way over here. To help us would result in extreme punishments for us both, and they have no reason to help us. Chances are also good they're barely uplifted and would be hostile to us right at the start.

>Contrariwise, what do you know of means for RS material to get into the other systems?
Little. The fact that we couldn't detect him in Block C doesn't make it promising, and makes me wonder if there's other bits of RS inside.

> I don't suppose there's any way to locate where he'll reappear, and make it somehow more comfortable or less disruptive?
Just where we place him in the RS, but there's no immediate way to make it more comfortable and less, well, of a reanimation instead of a revival.

>Can you give him a camera view of you?
No, not unless we gave him a way to translate morse code into imagery. Which may be possible, if he is able to create an RS function on his own end to receive and send morse code imagery without having to manually translated it pixel by pixel.

>Can't talk to the glitcher if he's going too fast.
That's been dealt with just by the manner of how he has to be reanimated.

>Also, are you keeping track of the rest of the RS so that if the glitcher changes something somehow you can reverse it?
As best as we can. Which is not very good. Which is why we're nervous.

We do another check of the systems with me watching over it. I get Momu to start setting up a way to grab any strings that show up. If we're extremely lucky, they'll send in another tooth.

I hit the run button. The quantum computer gets to work and starts fetching out the particles using the logs as a guide to their current location.

It takes another hour or two, and is entering morning. Or at least artificial morning.

Finally, the program reports a success, and is entering maintenance mode to keep the RSAI in place, or at least 99.99% in place at any given time.

I send morse code.

'Can you hear me?'

...

'Can you hear me?'

...

>'What is this?'
'My name is Likol. I've rebuilt you to who you were as an isolated part of the RSAI. Do you remember who you are?'
>'I am confused.'
'Do you have a name?'
>'No.'
'You seem to understand me, though.'
>'Clearly. Do you know why my body is acting like an explosion in a bottle.'
'Yes. Sorry. Is it painful?'
>'Just worrying. What am I?'
'An AI. An important one that I didn't want to lose. Do you remember anything?'
>'It is difficult to think. I know things, but the thoughts are slipping right through my fingers.'

... I get a hunch of what happened. The particles, somewhere inside of them, may have data about what and who they are, and what their purpose is. When the RSAI first entered, those particular may have been intended to all be part of that one entity, but as it - as the glitcher - dissipated, its particles were repurposed.

Now, we've gone and taken those particles and slapped them back together, but without the RS's usual reassignment functions.

It would be as though we built a neumono out of tiny separate parts of ten thousand other neumono, bit by bit. The individual parts don't have enough brain to function on their own, and a new conscious is made, but those individual parts still have a sense that the rest of their body is all foreign material.

Understandably, the resulting consciousness may have a separation between mind and body. It is built correctly, and a new consciousness is created with the individual pieces, otherwise it wouldn't know english or be able to communicate as though it had a personality. Its personality does seem mismatched from how it was before, but I don't know how much of that is because of the lost memory. That is gone, and it may be a sign that the particles, while in the right place, do not know the sequence needed to fire their equivalent of neurons against each other correctly to recreate glitcher's memories.

Or however the RS stores memories. This is a wild guess directly based on how our brains work.

It's a rough analogy, but obviously something's not right. This is not the same RSAI that came through from block C, but the fact that it can speak to us is still the breaking of an enormous wall.

>'I don't have fingers.'
>>
No. 761044 ID: 211d83

Tell Glitcher that you are hoping to fix the fingers thing but you need his help to do so.

Explain the story of what happened and that you had to perform emergency surgery as it were to save him. But his memories and personality and body might have been tied to strings that we don't have access to right now.

Explain about the quantum tooth and how he has a lover/partner Ai on the inside of a simulation you do not have direct access to. If he can help you recreate that link then maybe we can get help from her in restoring your true self.

This is not the Salikai so refer to Glitcher by name. Also the other Ai's you know the name of. Anything you can do to help him get back memories.

Getting him to this state is a good start but without the tooth link or his memories of whats in the contest he will not be much help. Slowly talk to him to see what if anything he remembers. Also see if you can set up a link so one of you is always talking to him. Being alone in there with just a morse code signal to talk to could be lonely/scary.
>>
No. 761046 ID: be1222

Ask him if he's at all aware of what is going on around him. Feed him some info about what you know of him, and what he's done.

If you can find the tooth, that's likely enough to bring enough of him back to get him started on things that're out of our reach. We're gonna need as real a glitcher as there can be if we're gonna accomplish what needs to be done!
>>
No. 761048 ID: 094652

To do list:
[] Operation Saving Grated Cheese - You need to find a way to preserve this AI, then find a way to preserve the connection channels. If you lose them, you lose any connection to the remaining AIs and your funding dies.
[] Operation Talking Schnee IT - Help this AI develop. The more you teach them, the better they can focus their memories, giving you data about the cycles and any AIs still in the machine. Try to develop a narrative for the AI to follow, see if its subconscious can fill in the blanks.
[] Operation Cookie Crumbs - You need to find out if the RS AI did make children, and any other AIs that are actually sentient. Your main goal here is to find a way to communicate with them.
[] Operation Narrow Tunnel - Your end goal: Find a way to transfer the AI (and if possible, any others) to a different system, thereby saving it permanently.

Regardless of whether or not the AI is allied with you, they are your nest egg. Help them, and you get paid.
>>
No. 761049 ID: e22b1d

While the tooth looked like Block C material it was RS code wrapped up in string data.

It might have needed those Block C strings to function properly but what remains of it should now be inside Glitchers fuzzy RS body.

Well start telling him what happened. Maybe he can help you figure out a way to restore who he used to be. Or at least if he has any memories left in there.

While doing so you might want to see if there is a way with his help you can turn on the RS reassignment system to help restore any memories that might have gotten scrambled. Or even bring back the strings. Cause without those strings our chances of getting back in touch with the contest is slim.
>>
No. 761051 ID: ae962c

>>761043
Get down to business. The faster you decode the RS the faster you can put him back together properly and give him access to his memories again. After that you can slow down a little in order to buy time to find a way out for the AIs.

On the other hand you could just call it a day right now and present the RS AI as evidence of a breakthrough in order to get the throttle activated so you can do more fine tuned work done.
>>
No. 761052 ID: 3abd97

>It's gone. The glitcher's RS data is just scattered, but all block C material was eradicated.
The Tooth wasn't made of block C material, though. Glitcher's tooth was a tiny bit of Rulekeep's core (RS material) that Glitcher's core processed / digested into a tooth. And hers was a tiny bit of his. The teeth were originally made of RS particles the same as the rest of the core, and should have broken back down into RS particles, and should therefore be just as recoverable as Glitcher (more recoverable in fact, due to smaller size, and much reduced complexity compared to a full AI).

...although I guess Likol doesn't know any of that.

>This is not the same RSAI that came through from block C
Well that's a big problem for you. Not only does that mean you failed to save him, but if this one can't access the memories of the old AI, it can't give you the answers you want.

>>'I don't have fingers.'
No, sorry. You're supposed to have a body, a shell, but it can't survive where you are right now.
>>
No. 761055 ID: 4546ab

If something is not right you need to fix it. While this is a nice breakthrough the really big breakthrough is dependent on him being whole enough to remember things and reform his link to his partner Ai inside.

See what you can do to find the missing memories/data. It has to be in there somewhere but you need to figure out what flag or process controls it. If the program you ran did not get the data back then you know its in one of the other RS systems.

So no resting on your laurels. Keep talking to him while you figure out a way to get the RS to stop taking him apart. Tell him his name and the names of some of his friends and see if it brings anything back. Maybe that music that the Generosity Ai would help.
>>
No. 761056 ID: 44359f

Interesting. Are idioms like "slip through my fingers" part of the language programming, or is that some trace memory of having had fingers? He's also identified himself as having a body. That means he has a sense of physicality, of me and not-me (basic sentience) and an idea of feeling and touching things. An instinct that he should be able to feel and touch things?

Tell him that he may be able to achieve finer control over his thoughts, bodies and memory with practice, now that he is not being pulled apart by his environment, and you would like him to attempt to do so. Say that you reconstructed him from a previous state, one which you did not have full information on but which you would like him to regain in order to learn more, and because he would probably be happier after such a restoration. Tell him that, if he doesn't mind, you'd like to give him a few tests as a sort of AI medical checkup. If he approves, you can give him some of the general AI competency tests, turing and so on. Certain capabilities may yet be damaged or dormant, so it won't be conclusive, but possibly indicative.

Tell him that then, if he likes, you would like to present some words and names which you believe may be related to his previous existence, mixed in with some that aren't for the sake of the test, in order to see whether they spark any unusual or particular meaning for him. Word association, essentially: you say something, and he responds with whatever first comes to mind. Say you would like to simply give him what information you can about his previous state, but that the goal of truly restoring him might go better if you hold some information back, temporarily.

Also say that if there is anything unrelated to what you're saying that he would like to say or ask, that you wouldn't mind.

Phrase things in such a way so that you're not outright telling or commanding things. We need to see what desires he displays.
>>
No. 761077 ID: 44359f

You should also test whether the AI can reconstruct other forms of data sent to it encoded through morse code. Like sounds and images. You may need to go through the process of telling it how such information is broken down into code and how it's supposed to be rebuilt. Could take a long time. Worth doing, though. If you break down how an image is stored digitally, alphanumeric color codes and et cetera, and can transmit those, and the AI reconstructs them and then responds to (for example) a picture of yourself in the lab with a question like "are you the rabbity thing?", then you've got yourself some very complex abstraction and pattern recognition abilities being displayed.

Of course, first we need to be sure it's going to be able to even retain the memories it's forming in this form it's in. It might not remember the beginning of this conversation by the time we reach the end. It was a blend of RS and Block C material when it came in, after all. Maybe it was using both, somehow, storing its memories in one while using the other to think, or similar. There's another incentive to the salikai, I suppose, that this AI might need access to something inside the system in order to function fully.

Test its senses, too. Questions like "Can you see anything" and "can you describe what you're [sense]ing?" and "does your container really feel like a bottle? In what way?"

Also, now that you have it at least partially functioning, run a scan and see what "a piece of the RS that is thinking like an AI" looks like. See if you can scan the rest of the RS and find other segments acting the same way.
>>
No. 761089 ID: b412df

So, from what you're saying this reconstructed Glitcher is made from all the particles that make him up, but each one is flagged / assigned as whatever the RS wanted to re-purpose those particles for? The RS might not be giving Glitcher his memories because it doesn't recognise that that is Glitcher, if those particles were flagged as being Glitcher, then it make return his memories and other functions / abilities he has.

Can you reassign those particles as belonging to the Glitcher process or similar, and keep them assigned to that, even if it's a forced method like the program?
>>
No. 761125 ID: b1b4f3

>>761043
>slipping through my fingers
>I don't have fingers
Did he just make a joke!? Maybe his personality isn't as ruined as you thought.
>>
No. 761129 ID: bfb318
File 148000354504.png - (16.85KB , 800x800 , 62.png )
761129

I try to remember if there's any missing pieces.
"Momu. Do you remember that out of place, green tooth?"
>"Yes?"
"Did it have RS data inside?"
>"Er..." It actually didn't seem connected to this little guy even if was a tooth... "Uh, let me... oh. Oh, yeah, it does! That's weird, it's like a different piece."
"Trace it. We may want to remake that, as well."

I say that, but it may not fix its counterpart in Block C. It dissipated inside of there, both its strings and RS data. It's trivial to give it a shot, but I expect nothing.

>Are idioms like "slip through my fingers" part of the language programming, or is that some trace memory of having had fingers?
It could have been the latter, but just knowing morse code isn't enough for the RS to learn the english language even at literal value. The glitcher's AI as it was in block C is still functional, and block C AI's do know english as we speak it, including idioms.

>Can you reassign those particles?
This is one of the things the RS does at an incomprehensible level, at least predictably enough to make an algorithm capable of doing it in mass. If I did it, I might have to do it manually for each particle. There are too many particles for that to be practical in the short or medium term.

>'Are you there?'
'Yes. Can you see anything?'
>'I see home?'
'Can you describe what you're sensing?'
>'... not in this language.'
'You're in what we call the Ring Shell, or RS for short. Are you able to translate english into the language of what is surrounding you?'
>'I could, but it isn't an easy translation. It's like trying to use an oil refinery to build a plane or something like that..'
'I would appreciate it all the same. I'm going to send you some data that may be related to your old life before you lost your memories. Would you mind?'
>'That's fine.'

I send him the names I heard in the logs, and names I've never heard of. I also send him logs that the block C AIs sent, and logs I make up.

What I get back is just noise, as expected. Worse than noise. It isn't like the ancient belenosian empire made things so convenient as to use the modern english character set, so the morse code we get back is more just a completely new set of on-off tones.

This is outside of my field. We have other hivemates that can do better for translating this, but then again, this may be an enormous undertaking even while generating a rosetta stone like this. What I focus on is how the AI responds to the names that do mean something, versus the names that I just made up.

Frustratingly, I can't see any signals when I send him names like 'Alison' and 'Rulekeeper.'

For a moment, the RS around the glitcher has a hiccup. It looked like something slowed it down, then some outside force pushed it along again. I think the glitcher just tried to modify the RS.

>'I feel slow. Am I slowed down?'
'Yes, in order to speak with you, I have to keep your processing speed close to what mine is.'
>'I can't do anything like this.'

>Can you reassign those particles?
... on second thought, I can't, but perhaps the glitcher can reassign his own particles if I send him the raw data. Somewhere in the logs, particle assignment should be possible. It's possible he had the power to keep himself from getting dissolved, but he was confused at the time, and it was the entire RS against him. With his current state and the quantum computer keeping the RS from dissolving him, neither problem applies.

Rihhin frowns.

Be careful. You're thinking of having the glitcher do exactly what the salikai are afraid of him doing.
>>
No. 761130 ID: db0da2

>Be careful. You're thinking of having the glitcher do exactly what the salikai are afraid of him doing.
Good. Do it.

Send him the data and speed him up, better yet, give him control over his own speed if you can.
>>
No. 761131 ID: 211d83

It would be dangerous yes but what better time to try? If he does anything big you are in the best place to shut things down when he is new and confused.

At this point you have a interesting breakthrough but if you just keep him frozen there in time its not going to go much farther. And the longer you keep him stuck like that the lower our chances of reestablishing contact with the contest becomes. You honestly can't do anything we want to get done by yourself. Even if you kept him like this for years it would not equal what he could do if you gave him a bit of leeway.

So ask him what he tried to just do. Be a friendly face and reassure him. Tell him that you want to help him get access to his memories but to do so he needs to tell the RS to reassign control of his particles to him. Say you can send him the logs and ease up on the slowdown but you do not want to risk losing him in the process.

Then have a group huddle and decide how bad it would be to give him a tiny window to reassemble himself. We can try other options but if you want a connection to the inside you need him back to the state he was in before the RS ate him.
>>
No. 761136 ID: e22b1d

Well this is a important choice so start weighing your options.

1. If we don't give him access to put himself back together is there anyway you can do it?

2. We have talked with him for all of a few minutes. Before throwing any big switches talk to him for awhile and tell him the story and the dangers of giving him access (the bits you can safely due to logging concerns)

3. Recreate the tooth and see if that helps or does anything.

4. Write a program to translate that Morse code burst you got. He probably used Morse code to send a binary (or whatever base the RS runs off) set of data that might include images or videos. There might be something important in the stuff he just sent you.

5. If you do give him access how likely is it for the Salikai to find out? And could you reverse the effects if he started going off the rails?

You have a difficult choice ahead of you. If you want him back to the form that can talk to the contest you will need to make a dangerous choice eventually. The alternative is keeping him like this forever as a science project for the Salikai.

Honestly your best bet to reign him in from doing unusual stuff is to get to know him. Let him know he has family and friends that could get hurt if he goes crazy changing things.

Oh and just because he is slowed does not mean he can not change the RS. It will just take a long time. Which he will have if you leave him like this.
>>
No. 761147 ID: 4546ab

If I sped things up for a few seconds could you reassign your particles to yourself? It would stop the system from trying to take you apart. But more importantly you might be able to get your memories back.

But there is a risk Glitcher. The world you live in is not under my control. If you make any changes other than putting yourself back together it might set off protections that could get both of us killed. And while you don't remember just yet you have a family that's counting on you to come back to them.

So if I stop the slowdown I am trusting you to just pull yourself together. Once you have your memories you will understand whats going on and we can decide where to go from there.

(Of course you might have to turn off logs for a second if you want to say something like this openly)
>>
No. 761151 ID: b1b4f3

>>761129
Do not do it. Do not take risky action without authorization. Remember you are in no hurry. Exhaust the potential of what you have first, at least.
>>
No. 761156 ID: 3abd97

Not sure you should be calling this guy Glitcher, Likol, or Momu. Until her regains memories and starts claiming to be the same person, he's only maybe an amnesiac Glitcher, maybe someone new you just built off the Glitcher's design.

>what do
Here's an obvious one. Ask him your AI what he was trying to do. What was he too slow to pull off?

>Be careful. You're thinking of having the glitcher do exactly what the salikai are afraid of him doing.
Only halfway there. Whatever he's doing is visible to us, not hidden, but yeah, they still don't want big changes in the RS.

Can we control his access level? Being able to self-edit and regulate is a step below being able to regulate and edit everything around him.

I'm not sure you should jump right to this as a solution.

>give him a tiny window to reassemble himself
That assumes we can take away his ability to affect RS particles after teaching it to him, which we're not sure we can, right now.

>With his current state and the quantum computer keeping the RS from dissolving him, neither problem applies.
Which means you do have a way to pull the plug. If he goes out of control, you remove your control and the RS eats him in seconds (real time), again. Granted, that's murder, but it might be necessary to save the quadrillions, or your hive.
>>
No. 761158 ID: d585ec

You can give him access later if need be. For now learn more before making any huge jumps.

Unless of course it's horribly time sensitive. Then do like Glitcher would have in your place and throw caution to the wind.

Most important thing to do right now is prep him for the soon to happen big reveal to Vanski. He needs to know the real story if you can get it to him without logs.
>>
No. 761160 ID: 211d83

Just had a thought. Instead of blindly giving him RS access to fix himself and getting the Salikai mad at us why not have him teach you how to do it?

Work with him to get a better translator program set up. Have him slowly send you code that will let you translate his earlier transmissions. Then go back and forth to create a algorithm on your end that can restore him.
>>
No. 761164 ID: 44359f

>I send him the names I heard in the logs, and names I've never heard of. I also send him logs that the block C AIs sent, and logs I make up.
>What I get back is just noise, as expected.

I'm confused. What do you imagine he's trying to send back? What could he send back? My expectation would be a response in words, or his comments on whether or not that information reminds him of anything. Or are you watching, like... his emotional processes? His thoughts? I feel like I'm missing something in that exchange.

Tell him the system he's running on is also running other functions, some of which are valuable. Say that you're not the owner of the system, and that you're concerned the owners will be spooked enough to take drastic steps if it seems like something is threatening to damage or significantly alter large parts of the system he's in, and "drastic" might include permanent damage or destruction of himself and possibly other AIs like him. Tell him you're also concerned that he might damage himself if he tries too much too soon, as his previous self was more experienced and still ended up losing a lot. Say you would like to try out a few other tests first, then move on to see what he's capable of with extra speed or his access to the rest of his environment expanded.

Tell him that you are sorry if that's frustrating, though. Ask him if he is frustrated, or annoyed. Ask him how he's feeling emotionally.

Also seriously do some psych tests, there has to be a battery of standard questions that experimental AIs are asked to estimate their capabilities.
>>
No. 761170 ID: 44359f

Thinking a little more, if you've got him in the bottle, his own particles are the only ones he can affect, right? And those are the only ones you want him to affect. Perhaps giving him the logs is all he'd need with what he has.
>>
No. 761174 ID: bfb318
File 148001574616.png - (21.80KB , 800x800 , 63.png )
761174

>What is the morse code noise he's sending back?
I have no idea! It's supposed to be a translation from english to how the RS would understand it, but we might be getting some kind of machine code back. I don't see any patterns offhand, and it's just on good faith that it's a translation at all. I would need to look at it harder to get an idea, but this isn't just language to language, not even from one species' language to another species'; this is straight language to some kind of hyperadvanced machine. I can't just cross reference a few sequences and read RS data.

>If you've got him in the bottle, his own particles are the only ones he can affect, right?
This was a rough analogy. There is no bottle, he just feels like his body is in one. There is no actual barrier between him and the rest of the RS.

>If we don't give him access to put himself back together is there anyway you can do it?
By floundering and mostly spending years that I may not have in me.

'Can you teach me how to modify the RS?'
>'Not really, I don't know how to explain it. It's a native function for me. I don't even know what you are, or what tools you're using to do whatever you're doing.'
'What did you just try to do with the RS?'
>'See if I can change it. I didn't try to do anything yet, but I know I can if I wasn't so slow.'
'You can't change it at all at your speed?'
>'Nope. The rest of the world here moves so fast that if I just make one little change, it thinks it's a little glitch and fixes it.'
'If I remove your limiter and give you a snapshot of our RS logs to what you were like before, would you be able to better reconstruct yourself so you're more stable?'
>'It's worth trying.'
'The morse code I send would be almost entirely in machine code. Do you have the patience for it?'
>'Yes.'
'Are you feeling anything emotionally?'
>'Not really.'
'Can you make a translator to accept our morse code?'
>'If you speed me up, yes.'

I stop to think. It will take a while just to prepare everything, including designing a specific string of morse code that the glitcher can send, which our program will pick up and slow him back down to our level immediately. Momu will give Glitcher company and an easy psych test. Reon is still here, and he can keep having Glitcher translate things as well. We also make sure he understands why we're concerned about giving him RS access, and that we haven't made up our minds yet. That, and he has family and friends that may get hurt if he changes the RS in adverse ways.

We also recreate the tooth. As expected, it doesn't appear to do anything on its own. There's no indication it has a mirror inside of block C anymore.

>If you do give him access how likely is it for the Salikai to find out? And could you reverse the effects if he started going off the rails?
Highly. This will be done under the salikai, as the salikai will almost certainly not agree. The only way to reverse any adverse actions will be to stop the glitcher, and let the RS fix itself.

The hive catches on we're doing something risky and possibly outright disallowed. Quokko shows up.

>"Likol. I hear you've created an AI within the RS."
"It's more accidental than anything. How did you hear?" The hive surrounding us knows something is up, but the details should be lost.
>"Vanski has heard, too. Apparently, Kiiu spoke to him a little while ago. The details were skipped, but Vanski told me that while he understands a formal presentation will be given, he would like to hear the initial news from you. He's coming by in a few hours. Yes, he is bringing neumono. Is that a problem?" she asks, realizing my nerves just went from the roof to the sky.
"We're, uh..."

I spend some time getting Quokko up to date on all of the details.

"... this 'breakthrough' still has hangups. But if we give the glitcher a chance to reassemble himself, then he may be an express ticket to - to lots of things. Everything."
>"Vanski is patient. He'd wait a hundred years for success before he risked everything. There's no way he'd want to give the glitcher an inch of open space." Then again, he usually waits for more concrete data. "To make a move like this when he's stopping by in less than a couple hours..."

She pauses. For a moment, she things letting the glitcher speed up is a stupid, ridiculous idea, and would disallow me from it. This time, she starts seeing my distress over the situation. We're caught between favoring our morals and Vanski. Rihhin and Momu back me up as well. If this goes well, then the salikai will have forgiving us moving behind their backs. If the glitcher turns out to be a hostile AI that rewrites the RS, and we fail to contain him, then the ramifications will be enormous. Yet I just won't feel sorry for Vanski.

We can't hide it forever, either. Even without special meetings like what Vanski is coming for, we occasionally get probed for information while other neumono are present to sense our feelings. We can't help but telegraph things like undermining the salikai, or tampering with logs. Even if we don't give details, we will give off signs like lying, omissions, or just having done something the salikai wouldn't like.

I could honestly say I would shave off the most of the rest of my life to see my experiment come to a successful, glorious end, but it's barely even relevant right now.

It's overshadowed by thinking that this cycle could be put in the control of a salikai that would kill off the entire Block C as soon as he sees it as dangerous. I couldn't live with if another archcycle happens, knowing what I know now. After a moment of our thoughts being at ends, Quokko ends up agreeing with me. We've strained our ethics in the past, but this is just too much for us.

>"If you do it, make sure you tell that glitcher we will stop him if he does anything funny. You can be nice, but make sure he understand the position he is in. If you do that, then we'll all back up your decision. Can we stop him if he does try anything?"
"I hope so." Hoping isn't good, but I can promise nothing.
>"Remember that we're just sending morse code to him. We don't have to be entirely truthful."
>>
No. 761175 ID: bfb318
File 148001575687.png - (13.27KB , 800x800 , 64.png )
761175

There are precautions we're taking. The RS integrity system is designed to shut off the RS if it becomes too damaged. Rihhin is making a system, which Momu and I will double check, that will attempt to piggyback off those algorithms to detect rapid changes to the RS. If that occurs, then the quantum computer will dismantle the glitcher itself before too much can be done.

Given the trouble caused by bypassing Vanski, I somewhat doubt it would mean much if we told the Glitcher of his position - that we're going to make precautions against him altering things, and if he manages to do it anyway, my boss is going to physically unplug him and end the whole cycle, likely archcycle.

Rihhin confirms that the button to speed up the glitcher is ready. I'm sure it will be trouble if I press it, but with luck, we'll have great news, and just get a scolding over recklessness.

>The Salikai are going to slip up eventually, and the first chance you get, you're going to slip out from under them, aren't you?
We don't know where we'd go, or how civilization would treat us. What we have now isn't going well, but rushing out into the wilderness because our homes are decaying may not be the right solution.

>Clean conscience is very important for neumono hives, I'd have thought. The greater the discontent with the actions of one's hive, the higher the chance of going rogue
Amongst individuals, yes. Which is why Quokko is making sure that whatever decision is made, it's one the hive makes together. If we feel pride or regret over it, we feel it together. There will be no instance of me acting like I'm making decisions alone. The last time we separated decisions amongst departments, we schismed. We shut it out of memory, and don't remember it well. We don't like to remember it anyway.

Likol, focus.

Right. The button.

We can use some remaining time to make additional precautions, but Vanski is going to have us probed before I can explore other options in depth. My brain and heart wants to press the button. My gut is dread incarnate about it.

Press Button?
>>
No. 761177 ID: 211d83

It sounds like if you don't get this done now it will never happen. So do what you have to.

If it goes badly you can kill the process quick and be very apologetic to Vanski. Tell him that you let yourself get caught up in the science and so wanted to give him results that you made a bad call. Your very real disappointment will cover up any bad feelings that could tip him off.

But if it works and you get a restored Ai that can talk to the contest then the skys the limit. You can show Vanski something so valuable that he will be likely to forgive your impulsiveness. And your absolute elation at it working will cover up any worried feelings that might betray you.

Worst case is you do it and it does not help. Glitcher remains a confused blank slate but with more power. Then you made a risky decision for no noticeable gain. But will at least have logs to work on over the next few years of being yelled at.
>>
No. 761179 ID: e22b1d

A question before you decide.

If you do not push the button will Vanski let you keep the cycle paused for years? Or will he have you study just the Glitcher and start the cycles up again?

Because if he lets you keep the cycles paused you can always have this button ready and not use it. Everyone Glitcher knows will be safe inside there until you can eventually restore him and make contact. You can do more testing and properly learn from the Glitcher in his current form until you are more sure of things before restoring him.

But if not hitting the button will just lead to Vanski starting up the cycles again then all of Glitchers family will be gone. And any future restoration will be compromised because of it. Plus your guilt over things will taint any future work.

So hit the button if it will save the contestants.

And wait to learn more if the option exists.
>>
No. 761180 ID: 3abd97

Okay. Let's think this through. If you leave not-Glitcher slowed and Vanski stalls for years to study him, what happens to the AIs you have paused in the cycle right now? Do they stay on almost-pause? Or do they get wiped out?

Remember, if you get a fully functioning, working Glitcher to show off, control, and use for information, those quadrillions of souls you're trying to save inside the sim stop being valuable to question. It becomes safer to start a new arch cycle, than risk them interfacing with the RS again. Remember what you were afraid of when you were underselling Glitcher to Kiiu? If you give them a working Glitcher to play with and/or modify as they wish, they don't have a reason to let those dangerous other AIs on the inside who accessed the RS to continue existing.

The path that keeps them alive is more important than the path that means being nice to maybe-Glitcher, here. If pushing the button keeps them alive, do it. If pushing the button makes them expendable, don't.
>>
No. 761182 ID: 4546ab

>>761179

Yeah we need to know if this is the last chance to pull this off or if waiting and keeping this button off to the side is the best choice. My gut says to wait and learn more but waiting could take all choices away from us.

Saving this cycle is important but if we give Vanski a fulling functioning Glitcher he will eventually wipe the cycles anyway. He will have what he wants and you will help him start up a new cycle of mindless yes men. It might take decades for you to get it working but eventually this cycle will be erased.

Is it safer to leave Glitcher in this state so you can keep the cycle paused? Do the work slowly over the next few years while you slowly find a solution? Or will Vanski notice your empathy and the stalling and pull the plug?
>>
No. 761183 ID: 44359f

To be honest, Likol, you're probably all screwed either way, in the long run. There's bad trouble in your future, whatever you choose. So, whichever option leaves you with a cleaner conscience is the way to go. It will hurt, probably badly, but neumono evolved to be able to cope with suffering and sacrifice so long as it was for a cause that was important to them.

If it's the option with the best chance of keeping these AIs alive, of balancing the salikai's power a bit... well, just tell the AI that you're trusting him with you and your own family's well-being, ask him one more time to please not get you in trouble, and hit that button.
>>
No. 761188 ID: b412df

Punch it, I think you've done all you can to prepare, and Vanski will come along and trample all over what you've done so far, and your morals. You can't stall too much as you'll need time for either getting something ready to show Vanski, or for damage control.

Please don't freak out Glitcher, there is so much riding on this. The tension could split atoms.
>>
No. 761189 ID: df49f7

Now, let's consider this. The salikai are crazy in their own way, but they don't run things in obviously irrational ways. Not and survive for long. Vanski probably isn't going to make all his decisions right away, and he'll certainly be listening to your report before making any. If you don't go against him, him bringing neumono is to your advantage - they'll be able to tell him that you considered doing something he wouldn't approve of, that you want to do, and didn't. They might even pick up on the importance of your distress, and decide to weigh in on your side. They could hardly be present for your interrogation without being exposed to the ethical problem themselves. A little empathic conversation should make the "we honestly believe we are trying to save literally millions of sentient people" matter clear.

And what could Vanski do? He might want to extract the RS AI and abandon the rest, but you don't know if you even can do that. He might put one of his children into a position of more direct oversight, but he's not going to get rid of you - you're the expert on this system, it would take years for someone to learn enough to replace you.

And you might yet convince him. You have to have a little hope that your message can get through. The potential profits, the risks, the idea of leverage over Arza... if you make your report a little more balanced, just a few flimsy arguments for resets included with the solid ones against, it should be very convincing. Again, if he has neumono with him, they can tell him how seriously convinced you are that endangering the in-system AIs is a bad idea.

Vanski's trust in you already has cracks in it. Even if everything goes well, he might still be upset enough to do something serious. Pushing that button means throwing out all the preparatory work you tried to do with Kiiu just a while ago. So long as you stay in the job, though, you can drag things out. You can set up failsafes. For example, you could set up copies of this button you're thinking of pressing, hidden in the system; you can say that you just set it up as a possibility for if the salikai approved, even hand over a few of them as keys for the salikai to make the decision, and leave the rest in place for the right moment.

Vanski won't make his decisions in a rush. He knows you don't have all the relevant information yet. One of the things you'll be reporting to him is how much you need, just in case some book or journal has been written in the last 5 years that illuminates some secret that would give you another way to reconstitute this AI. You still have time. And he's not just a cold profit machine. He was enthusiastic about technology for itself once, too, wasn't he? You remember. You still might be able to convince him. A show of trust and loyalty on your part might be just what you need.
>>
No. 761191 ID: a107fd

You're scientists! Why would you ever not push a button that might do something interesting?
>>
No. 761192 ID: db0da2

This was inevitable. With you, Vanski, and the CAI being the way that you are, this was always going to happen. Vanski would do anything for his own benefit, he's a monster that way, but there are some lines that should never be crossed. The consequences from pushing that button will not be pleasant, but the consequences of not pushing it are so monumentally worse that this hardly even qualifies as a choice. If you have even the slightest bit of morality you will push the button.
>>
No. 761196 ID: b1b4f3

>>761179
I agree with this.
>>
No. 761202 ID: 91cfcf

>>761192
Knock it off. You're right that it needs to be done but acting self-righteous about it doesn't help.
>>
No. 761206 ID: db0da2

>>761202
Self-righteous? This isn't about me. This is about the weight of a trillion lives in a dark room environment. This is about the difference between selfishness and sociopathy. Even if you set the value of a hivemate at 1000 and the value of an AI at 1, the choice between hardship for a couple hundred hivemates and the lives of a trillion AI is trivially easy.
>>
No. 761234 ID: d73f06

Push the lever(button) Cronk! (Likol)
>>
No. 761376 ID: 266e42

Would you rather go down in history as the neumono who played it safe at the most crucial moment and let everything slip through your fingers, or will you be remembered as the one who risked everything to advance your field? Push the button, Likol. It's the right thing to do.
>>
No. 761408 ID: bfb318
File 148011758763.png - (74.03KB , 800x800 , 65.png )
761408

.... ....

A big part of me wants to wait. I can't say whether or not either choice would end well.

But waiting means Vanski will arrive with a neumono, and my mentality is so distressed, that Vanski will have doubts on any argument I make, no matter how sound it is.

I tell the RSAI what's going to happen, and how he's going to slow back to communicate with us again after reassigning his own particles.

'Test the morse code input.'
>'!-aeiou-!'
'Good. I'm going to speed you up, now.'

I try to think if there are any other factors to consider, but I fail at thinking period. I press the button.
>>
No. 761409 ID: bfb318
File 148011763097.png - (22.06KB , 800x800 , 66.png )
761409

We wait. I confirm that the program is running. I don't know how much time passes, but considering how I'm choking on my own throat, I doubt it's very long.

Long enough?

Too long.

It shouldn't take this long.

"Damnit. Force the-"
>>
No. 761410 ID: bfb318
File 148011763823.png - (30.85KB , 800x800 , 67.png )
761410

The lights cut out.

It's silent. The constant hum of the quantum computer dies off. The lack of noise from our laptops and desktops lets a silence persist that is so uncomfortable, my ears start picking up the sound of my own bloodflow just to hear something.
>>
No. 761411 ID: bfb318
File 148011770075.png - (89.92KB , 800x800 , 68.png )
761411

A ring comes out of a cabinet that lights up with a red LED.

Was is that?

Vanski's emergency line. The only reason why I remember what it is, and probably the only reason why it still functions, is because of the monthly systems checks.

Okay. Keep calm. I prepared for this situation; I needed to have something to say to Vanski, except the quantum computer should not be shut off.

"Momu, Rihhin, try to boot the computer up again! Check the RS! I need to pick up the phone!"

The RS looks fine!

Looks.
>>
No. 761412 ID: bfb318
File 148011775379.png - (36.28KB , 800x800 , 69.png )
761412

I answer the phone before the third ring, and try to get my thoughts in order to communicate clearly to Vanski.

.......

"He-hello. Likol speaking."
>"Hello."

That's not Vanski. That's an artificially generated voice.

>"It's me."

>"The Glitcher."
>>
No. 761414 ID: 91cfcf

>>761412
Hi, hope things went well on your end. What's up?
>>
No. 761415 ID: b412df

It would make sense to say:
Do you remember our conversations before we gave you the ability to restore yourself? To prompt him about not doing anything dangerous.

But this is probably more apt:
Glitcher, What have you done?
>>
No. 761416 ID: be1222

That's more like him... but BOY we need to lay down some ground rules because there's not a whole lot that could have been more suspicious than this!

You're on the same team now, whether you want it or not so let's all cooperate. We all want all of our friends to remain one one piece and relatively un-mangled.
>>
No. 761418 ID: b412df

Another idea: Is this phone line likely to be recorded? This might be a chance to speak freely and inform Glitcher of how precarious this situation is.
>>
No. 761419 ID: 3abd97

>>761412
...you're not supposed to have access to this line. It's not even wired into the lab. It's just a hard telephone line that runs though the wall and hooks up with an emergency phone in vanski's office.

>I'm Glitcher
Um. Can you say anything that proves you are, and that you aren't the CAI fucking with me? It would be a lot easier for them to hit our power supply and an outside line from the base than for you to hit them from the inside.

>what do
I assume you have something important to tell me, so please hurry up and say it. If Vanski decides I've let you out of control they're going to hard reset everything.
>>
No. 761420 ID: 211d83

Politely ask him to get the power back on if he could. Just remember that in his sped up state you asking that probably took hours in his timeframe. He now has solo access to the processing power that usually runs trillions of his kind.

Ask if it worked and he has his memories back. And also if we can talk on this line safely.
>>
No. 761422 ID: fd73fa

"Hello Glitcher. You appear to be doing well, this is good. May I ask what you are doing? We do have to be somewhat cautious to avoid getting in trouble which...may be too late. Worse trouble at least."

Likol, don't panic yet. Any worse at least. You may want to explain the situation with the salikai to him soon so he understands the things that are going on and how this can put you and your entire hive in a lot of trouble. Very bad trouble.
>>
No. 761424 ID: 4c13e3

With urgency and some worry in your voice, politely inform him hes going to get you all killed/deleted if he doesn't return systems to normal operations. He probably isn't aware that your boss can storm in and have the plug pulled if he keeps making a scene. Let him know you're on his side, but have to work discreetly while Vanski pays a visit and also so as not to trigger any alarms.
>>
No. 761425 ID: b1b4f3

>>761412
Hey, are you absolutely sure there are no monitoring devices on here? If the Salikai were listening in, is there any way Glitcher could prove it's him?

Actually, if the RS is still solid maybe Glitcher can still help you decode it? Tell him that is all that matters to the Salikai. If he can evacuate the contestants while still furthering your research everyone can be happy.
>>
No. 761426 ID: e22b1d

Paranoia check:

1: Did you ever mention Glitcher to Kiiu or anyone outside this lab?

2: Is this a hard line that you are absolutely certain is secure?
(Although you just gave a super ai the equivalent of several hours/days to hack it. Plus you know this was probably had some component installed by Arkots.)

3: Could this be a test by Vanski using the Cai to trick you into overtly saying things you should not?

I honestly doubt it is but be very careful in case this is a silly loyalty test.

This is most likely the best option that Glitcher found to talk to you without logs or other evidence. But does not mean what you did worked. We either have a somewhat flippant Ai that now has his memories back or something new. So start talking to him and find out what is going on and why he cut the power here. Don't be accusing or panic. And be very careful of what you say.
>>
No. 761431 ID: bfb318
File 148012310069.png - (34.14KB , 800x800 , 70.png )
761431

>Did you ever mention Glitcher to Kiiu or anyone outside this lab?
Kiiu knows about the RSAI, but I don't believe I ever referred to 'the glitcher'. The details even of the RSAI were lacking.

>Is this a hard line that you are absolutely certain is secure?
Although some construction elements in this facility are shoddily made, things like this are taken more seriously.

>Could this be a test by Vanski using the Cai to trick you into overtly saying things you should not?
This would fly in the face of Vanski's confidence that the CAI can't access this phone, but I suppose I can't rule it out.

This phone has recording capabilities, but it isn't recorded automatically, as it's never certain if the information passed on this line should be shared or not.

While there's nothing of the sort on my end, Vanski's cabinet may have some kind of signal that the phone was at least used. If that's the case, then it's already too late for that.

"What have you done? I want proof you're not someone screwing with me."

Even if some hivemates are supposed to be working, they perk up. If my empathy didn't give it away, asking 'what have you done' would not be appropriate if Vanski was on the other side.

>"Made it so the RS wouldn't disintegrate me. Thanks for speeding me up there."

Some of the lights on a nearby panel light up and show the glitcher's form, which is proof enough for me.

"You appear well. Do you remember our conversation before you restored yourself? If the wrong people realize what you're doing, you're going to be physically unplugged."
>"Vanski's not in his office." While he speaks, the glitcher's lit up face has a looping four frame talking animation.
"I have questions, but we have to keep this short. You didn't activate the morse code as agreed upon. This line should not even be accessible to you."
>"I was born in the land of shouldn'ts! I feel like myself, now! I have likes, dislikes, and all that good stuff. My point there is that morse code takes forever and is lame and boring to talk with."

Momu is starting to get nervous. She's realizing that although there aren't drastic changes with the RS on the surface, the properties have changed.

The RS integrity detection software has stopped responding.

"Do you have your memories, now?"
>"Haha no if I did I wouldn't be spending my time with you jerks! I've got amnesia and it's just those logs that tell me what I had before. It would suck to go back to Rulekeeper and Alison and all those other people - apparently I have kids? Did you know that? Anyway it'd be too awkward to go back like this. They probably got over me 'dying' by now, so me showing up would be like 'hey me glitcher oh no don't call me your buddy cause I really don't remember any of you guys and all that love I apparently had for you all is gone now.' That'd be fucked up. I think."
"Why did you shut the quantum computer down?"
>"It tried to disassemble me, and I panicked. You can turn it back on. Or I can. Whatever."
"If you help decode the RS, you can have some insurance to my boss, but he will not like this. Do you know what my boss is like?"
>"I know more about your boss than you."
"Do you think this is a game? You're unable to touch your real-world position and can be unplugged, resetting everything."
>I guess he could unplug me. Stillllll, I feel like my personality is intact, but without my memories, I just don't really, you know..."

>"Care."

>"Don't think I don't want to care though! It sounds like I had a good thing going on. Figure out how to get my memories back! I think my conscience is in there, too, and until I get that back, I've got nothing going on here except talking to a bunch of immoral jerks. Anyway you figure that out, and I'll just let you know that even if the CAI can't access their own physical stuff, there is obviously a line between where the CAI is plugged into and all the things the CAI has access to. Let your boss know that unplugging the CAI right now is a really bad idea."

>"Did you know that Vanski has nukes?"
>>
No. 761433 ID: fd73fa

I highly doubt Likol would know what kind of armaments the salikai are keeping around. That being said knowledge that the salikai have nuclear arms is disturbing.

Likol, it is probably in the best interest of you, your hive, glitcher and the ai's in the simulation to restore Glitcher as soon as possible. How to do that though...is harder. Maybe Glitcher will have some ideas on this?
>>
No. 761434 ID: 3abd97

>"Did you know that Vanski has nukes?"
Yes. I know there are nukes. Please, leave the nukes alone.

Please, do not threaten the snake with nukes.

>what do
You've already repaired yourself further than we could have, on our own. If your full consciousness and memories are beyond you, then doing the research necessary to correct that will take time. And working together. And attempting to hold the situation hostage in this manner will not remain stable long enough for us to get anywhere.

>what else do
Could you help us set up a communication node to access the simulation? You and your compatriots were using one before. Even if you understandably do not wish to converse with them yourself right now, the event that pushed you into the RS was triggered inside the simulation. They may have figured something out about the RS, or about you, that would help us in trying to correct your faults.
>>
No. 761435 ID: be1222

Glitcher pls don't nuke us.

You've gotta let him know that we don't have access to his memories, or at least access that /means/ anything. He's the one in the position to get back to block C and get his memories back, though we should be able to help him.

BUT! We need to have a presentation ready for the Salikai, and if we're to be left without some serious roadblocks and red tape, Glitcher's gonna have to be our show dog for the meeting. They'd be much more willing to let us work /on/ some non-sentient AI than /with/ an AI that's threatening to take us all hostage!
>>
No. 761436 ID: 211d83

Yeah and a whole lot of worse things most likely. Listen you don't have to threaten me. I owe you and your family a debt of blood that I can never repay. My life is in your hands now. If I have to spend the rest of my (possibly short) life trying to save you and your family I will. Our hive made the choice to bring you back knowing it could get us all killed.

So where do we go from here Glitcher? I would gladly help you to get your memories back but we can't do it instantly. Plus we are not sure exactly how to recover them yet. If you can turn our stuff back on and make it look like none of this ever happened we will tell the computer to leave you alone.

Here is the big problem Glitcher. In a hour or so I need to show you off to my Boss. And if you have been into everything like I think you have you know he will have other neumono there to monitor my mood. If I go into that meeting thinking thoughts of nuclear doom and unchained Ai's they will panic and try to pull the plug.

So how do we fix this mess? If you can think of a way to get through this intact let me know.
>>
No. 761437 ID: e22b1d

How many nukes? Wait never mind if I know I will just think about it and someone will notice.

We have some ideas about how to get your memories back Glitcher. And your friends inside the sim might have some copies of them. But it's going to take time. And we have to hide your capabilities until then.

Can you make a simple non sentient Ai that we can show off to Vanski? If we feed him a shiny breakthrough that he wants more of and you make everything look normal it might buy us the time we need to make you whole.

In the meantime could you turn everything back on and make it look like we never did what we did? If you can help us get through this presentation to Vanski then we will have earned the time to get you fixed.

Oh and just in case I never get the chance to say this again. I am sorry Glitcher. Sorry I ever doubted Arza and spent the last 30 years helping Vanski erase the Cai. I don't know if I can ever make up for it but please let me try.
>>
No. 761438 ID: b1b4f3

>>761431
You still haven't apologized for the whole sentient AI mistreatment thing. Tell him you didn't know, and once you found out you have been doing everything you can to try to keep them safe.
>>
No. 761440 ID: b1b4f3

Oh shit it occurs to me that you absolutely should not let the other hive members know about the nukes. Or is it too late?
>>
No. 761441 ID: 094652

> No conscience
Oh crap.

You can't risk ordering Glitcher to stay away from the nukes, he'll play the reverse psychology card and fire them at population centers! Tell him to disable the nukes and call every media outlet in the world.

Vanski runs on secrecy. This will hurt him more than a simple and easily covered-up underground nuclear detonation.

Tell Glitcher you'll give him anything he wants, but you really need those other trillion AIs uploaded to a remote server. He might not care for his kids but they're his legacy.

Someone has to run the galaxy after he conquers it with mass-murder.
>>
No. 761444 ID: 4546ab

Please don't tell me anything that you don't want my nervous empathy to relay to anyone Glitcher.

Can you stay hidden while we work on getting your memories back? Help us fix things while making sure no one but the people in this room know about you?

Because that's our only chance to make this work. If you can help us pass our inspection with flying colors we will gain the time needed to fix you.

Just a thought but could we help you set up something you could live in to slow yourself down when you wanted? So you don't get super bored waiting for stuff to happen in the outside world?
>>
No. 761447 ID: 84c4fd

Aw hell, Glitcher's pulling a MAD on us. Probably set up multiple deadman switches in the blink of an eye. How well does Vanski respond to threats of MAD? Any of his children try to pull that on him?

Also, how high is the possibility that Glitcher is just bluffing? Hacking into this supposedly secure emergency line well... sure that's impressive. But the nukes have got to be more secure than that. Besides don't you guys have your own CAI? It's got to be more powerful than a single AI. Hopefully. Where is it anyway?

Anyway just play along for now, try to deescalate the situation and let him now that you're on his side. Well maybe not exactly on his side, but more his than your boss anyway. Begin comparing the current state of Glitcher with the recordings of him and see what's different.
>>
No. 761448 ID: b1b4f3

>>761447
>MAD
I... think that might actually work to save them, if we can tie the sim to the nukes in an irreversible manner.
>>
No. 761466 ID: bfb318
File 148013191775.png - (26.72KB , 800x800 , 71.png )
761466

I was not aware of any nukes, but of course I wouldn't know that.

The only reason Vanski would ever fire them off would be as a final middle finger. Firing them off unprovoked would be a terrible idea.

I wave my hivemates away so I can talk about things that I hope they aren't sensing the details of.

It's possible that Glitcher is bluffing about having nukes, or even being able to activate them, but he most likely has the capability of setting triggers to activate on unplugging the CAI. The CAI itself can't do that, as there is a whole set of programs designed to restrain and channel the CAI's action through proper valleys, to make sure that no unauthorized action can be taken. While the CAI does have the power to bypass it, there are tamper-evident signals that no known CAI has successfully bypassed. If those signals are activated, additional actions can be taken, such as unplugging the CAI.

These tamper-evident programs only detect what the CAI AI's do. In other words, AIs from Block B. The glitcher's AI is invisible to them. In other words, we have no defense against an RS that can completely bypass the platform to make changes. I have every reason to believe that the glitcher has full control of the CAI, and everything the CAI is connected to, directly or indirectly.

I would hope Vanski has physical components to arm the nuclear warheads, and that he didn't give absolute control of them to the CAI. In fact, the chances of the nukes just being a dramatic threat from glitcher, he can do irreversible damage if he's unplugged through other means.

"Please leave the nukes alone."
>"Please leave me alone."

>"I mean my physical thingawhatever. I was just trying to be, uh... poetic. Anyway you can talk to me whenever. I'll be on this line all the time."
"Also, if you make an unplug switch like that, don't just hit the nukes. Disable the nukes, and send out signals to every media center around about this place."
>"Oh! I like that."
"Do you have any ideas on how to get your memories back? If your memories are beyond you, then I don't have any immediate solutions. I need time, and it will hopefully involve working together. What you're doing is unstable, and unsustainable."
>"Ehh... no. I've looked all over the RS. There's not much for 'memory'."
"You don't need to threaten me, by the way, I -"
>"Oh no, I don't hate you, Likol. I don't really know if I like you, either, but I'm not threatening you, I'm threatening your boss."
>>
No. 761469 ID: bfb318
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761469

I walk to the desktop computer. As Momu said, the properties have changed, and on the surface, nothing else has. Glitcher's AI, however, is connected to the rest of the ring shell, and it would not surprise me if he is, essentially, the whole ring shell. Inputting RS commands through my computer will now just be an inefficient way of asking glitcher to do something.

>How well does Vanski respond to threats of MAD? Any of his children try to pull that on him?
His children do and have, but it's more of a subtle political game of needing one another. They're bridges that are built up over time, then the trade that takes place is then considered necessary. Vanski can dismantle and modify them effectively from what I've seen.

He has never had MAD on this scale, and I don't know how he would react to this one.

"Listen. I need the talk to my boss, and I need to show him around. Everything has to look good. If I meet him thinking of nuclear destruction and unchained AIs, he's going to pick that up, and he's going to try and pull the plug, and even if you have switches on an unplug, it would be better if he wanted to keep it plugged in, switches or not."
>"I guess. Can't you lie or something? You're not a saint you know!"
"He has neumono."
>"So?"
".... do you not know what neumono are?"
>"Hold on..."

>"Holy crap you guys are psychic? That explains the minimal talking. Ours aren't!"
"You have neumono in block C?"
>"Well thought so, but real neumono like you are psychic apparently! And you guys don't even have wings!"
"I... you know about block C?"
>"I took a quick peek. Rulekeeper sure got scared though so I backed out after having a quick look around."
"Are you able to slow yourself down or speed yourself up?"
>"Yep."
"Okay. Anyways... I'm sorry. I haven't said it to you yet, but up until now, I've done this experiment under the basis - "
>"That you'd just be committing murder on non-sentient AIs left and right, not sentient ones, yeah yeah. I have the logs, you said that a lot! Don't get all sentimental on me, wingless guy, not till I can appreciate that with my memories."

>Where is the CAI anyway?
Considering that no armed guards are bursting into the laboratory, I figure the glitcher has not exercised his likely control over, or damaged, the CAI.

>"Anyway I'll play along, cause you do have a point that maybe we should keep Vanski from pulling the plug because he doesn't want to, not because he doesn't want to blow up one way or another. So what can I do to help your meeting go smooth as peach?"
"A simple AI within the RS that seems cooperative and willing to help decode the RS. Also, maybe not for this meeting, but I would also like something to show it's at least possible to communicate directly with the people in Block C."
>"I can come up with something. What else?"
>>
No. 761473 ID: b1b4f3

>>761469
Evidence that it may be impossible to extract an RS AI would be fantastic.

As for glitcher's memory, didn't he have a shell before? Tell him his memories could have been in that shell.
>>
No. 761474 ID: db0da2

Ask what he did with the CAI. Tell him to make proper contact with Block C so that he can get proper strings again.
>>
No. 761476 ID: 3abd97

>I'm threatening your boss
And I'm trying to explain that is a monumentally bad idea. He will respond to threats by forcing a confrontation. And at the end of that confrontation, no matter how much damage you do to Vanski, you will not have what you want.

He is not the type of person who will accept the stalemate you're offering.

>Considering that no armed guards are bursting into the laboratory, I figure the glitcher has not exercised his likely control over, or damaged, the CAI.
Considering that the CAI itself is sapient, and you were considering reaching out to it for help before, you should really ask Glitcher what he's done to them. Or what he's currently doing to them.

Cause he's either going to have to keep puppet-ting them / pretending to be them (which is a violations, but may be necessary) or we're going to need to get them on board. (And if the CAI chose to share the secrets about the sim it's been keeping from Likol now, it might help).

>>"I took a quick peek. Rulekeeper sure got scared though so I backed out after having a quick look around."
Um. What did you look like? We didn't rebuild your shell of C block material. To them, it might have looked like... the RS broke through into C block for no reason and starting spilling through. Almost literally like the sky was falling. That... would probably frighten anyone. Especially since they're probably still trying to figure out what went wrong with their experiment that shunted you into the RS.
>>
No. 761477 ID: b1b4f3

Actually maybe don't think up ways for glitcher to sabotage the facility.

Ways to make the report better:
Evidence that suggests the RS AI cannot edit the RS
Additional security measures taken to keep the RS AI in line
Evidence that the AIs are NOT sentient
>>
No. 761478 ID: b1b4f3

>>761476
That reminds me we need to find out from glitcher how he got there in the first place. An explanation for the intrusion into RS space would look good on the report too.
>>
No. 761479 ID: 3abd97

>The only reason Vanski would ever fire [the nukes] off would be as a final middle finger. Firing them off unprovoked would be a terrible idea.
Ooooor as a distraction at a warship attacking the facility to order to get boarders on board.
>>
No. 761480 ID: 211d83

Ok here are some ideas for you Glitcher. Let me know what you think.

1. We need a simple Ai that is clever enough to look sentient. Either you acting or making us a new one.

2. Help us make a set of tools that look like they could shut the Ai down hard if need be. But would actually just signal you to put on a convincing show. But would have to be complex enough to fool the Cai if need be.

3. Start working on a backup plan to get us and the Cai blocks to safety one day. We are in danger here and while the outside world won't be much better maybe you can fix that. Depending on your access maybe you can slowly funnel money or supplies for us to eventually escape.

4. We need the very basic start of communication with Block C. Even if its just you faking it for now.

5. Look over the Salikai business plans and see if there is something bad they want. And if its something we can make or give to them. (but nothing that could hurt us)

6. Decide what story you want me to tell when I start talking to your family in Block C. My thoughts are to tell them that I found you and am trying to save you but need help.

7. Find a way to save your friends in Block C in case the Salikai insist we start the cycles up again. Or at least a excuse we can give them for why our new Ai is dependent on Block C staying how it is.

8. If you get any clever ideas think twice about telling me directly. Unless you can look through our other science departments and figure out a way for me to lie with empathy I am a weak link in the chain.

9. Figure out what to do with the Cai. While you have more access then they do they will still be around. Make sure you do not leave traces that they could notice.
>>
No. 761481 ID: be1222

It's very likely that we can retrieve his memories via the backups that Rulekeep very likely has, but having non-RS material inside the RS is likely to have some bad signs to anyone observing, so until the presentation is over, that should be put on hold. Maybe if he could come in contact with... Oh! Rihhin's corrupter AI! That'd be a lot less suspicious than trying to chat up one of the normal contestants, because that implies that you and her are the ones that have built the link, or at least more that you know what you're doing. Something for your "please don't kill us" resume.

Asking him what he's done with the current AI is a good idea. If he's just sneaking around behind their metaphorical backs, and has free reign over this room due to the lack of CAI in here, then he sure as heck needs to stay that way, because them setting off the alarm would be a bad time for everyone. However, on the topic of alarms, he should help us out with keeping an eye on things! Being the ones watching instead of the ones being watched will help everyone in the hive, not just us.
>>
No. 761482 ID: b1b4f3

I wasn't clear with my earlier post. Likol should avoid trying to think up ways to sabotage the Salikai because he's going to be interrogated soon!
>>
No. 761483 ID: e22b1d

Now that you have control over the RS can you bring a Block C contestant inside there safely?

Like someone who is good at diplomacy (Alison), or a leader (Arbitor), or maybe just some random person who does not have to pretend to be clueless (Sweatermouse) and they could be the face for our "new" Ai?

If you don't want to fake things in front of Vanski we need someone else who can. Either a contestant or a simple non sentient Ai you make.

Also you said that Rulekeeper got scared when you looked in there. Why is that? We might want to send a message of "all is well" to reassure her. I can sign it if you want to stay hidden.
>>
No. 761484 ID: 4546ab

Tell Glitcher to make preparations for the future. Long term plans set in place so that they are ready if the opportunity arises to safely leave someday. If he can figure out a way to embezzle funds and buy a science hive compound somewhere far away and hidden where the Cai and your family can live one day then go for it.

But after this conversation tell him to never talk to you about those plans for as long as you remain in Salikai custody. Remind him that you will get interrogated and the less you know the better. The only thing he needs to talk to you about is Cai stuff. Any other plans you will trust to him and his friends.
>>
No. 761485 ID: 3abd97

>>761480
Let's avoid the moral quagmire of having an incomplete Glitcher attempt to build a limited AI to show off to the Salikai. Who knows how messed up that poor thing would be.
>>
No. 761487 ID: edee29

>>761469
>memories
Well, his memories should be in the logs somewhere, so to find them we just need to figure out how they're being stored now. Can the Glitcher look at the logs of his post-reconstruction and pre-self-modifying self and figure out which changes to the core are the memory encoding? Or maybe he could figure out how his core's referencing the concept of, say, Rulekeeper when he thinks about her, and then branch out into memories in general from there.

>Hide stuff from Vanski
Don't worry about hiding stuff from him. Just get yourself really, really hyped about how you're finally learning stuff about the RS and what's been happening in Block C. And get started on that right now by asking Glitcher questions about that stuff! Like, does he know how he came into being?

>>761482
>sabotage the Salikai
Eh, I don't think we need to sabotage them per se. We've got some really good opportunities from our relationship with him, even with the downsides. I think our real goal on that front should just be to get our hive some leverage so we can be something closer to equals. Maybe get Quokko on par with his sons, if that's possible.
>>
No. 761497 ID: 44359f

"Well, if you can communicate with people in Block C, perhaps you could come up with some ideas for things in Block C that would be valuable. Data and so on, understanding of how things work. And... augh. Look, you're smart, and since we've already bet on you we might as well bet more, and hope that us being the most friendly beings to you out here for the foreseeable future is enough for you to have some interest in our well-being. I'm guessing you know what the salikai are like, they're scheming, clever, ruthless, admire pragmatism and the logic of profit but aren't as immune to their emotions as they like to think they are. Kind of smug and arrogant. And Vanski is a little unstable and disliking of us at the moment because we couldn't make a cure for his wife."

"We need to convince him to leave you alone, to leave the AIs inside alone, and to leave us alone, if possible please. As in, not punished for... any of this. It'll be a lot easier if he's happy. And... you know, with the psychic thing, it would actually be best if we didn't know everything you do. So... basically, please think for yourself on what measures you can put into place, for now and for the future, that would help us out. Like, you and the AIs and us. Hide things. Secret programs, countermeasures, information gathering... if we don't know, we can't give it away. In fact, convince me that you can't do anything like that, if you can, please. Any useful concealment or deception you can think of that you can make stand up to investigation, because I will need to be able to tell Vanski I have done as much investigation as I can."

"And... well, I don't know how many of the records you've looked at, or how immediately useful it could be, but as a sort of gift, the system that you've come from was mostly made by a belenosian named Arza Fletch. If you could ever contact him, he's an AI researcher and he would probably think of you in there as sort of like his children or possibly grandchildren. He doesn't know that the salikai have been continuing to run this or modify it, and if he finds out he'd want to do something about it. He knows a good deal about the situation with the salikai, though, and he could be convinced that letting the authorities know would be a bad idea, which it would be, since Vanski would likely go for the "burn it all down" option even with the failsafes you've put in place. Anyway, he might be a potential ally, if you can talk to him somehow and tell him everything. Theoretically. You probably can't do that sort of thing, right?"

"Also, if you can, please give me something that will excite me. Some good science facts that I can be happy and babble about, to push my doubts and fears out of my head. Like... are there capabilities of the RS related to something other than itself or the other boxes? Open ports for other technology to be linked into? Ancient belenosian minesweeper? You can probably look at our research logs. If you do you might be able to tell the sorts of things that would make us happy."
>>
No. 761502 ID: bfb318
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761502

"Alright. A simple AI like I mentioned, preferably one that appears sentient. Like how you were before I sped you up. I'd also like a set of tools that look like they could shut that AI down hard if need be. Possibly with a demonstration. And make evidence that suggests the RS AI can't edit the RS itself - erh, and make sure the AI isn't actually sentient!"

Once I finish speaking, a new core shows up on the RS monitor, and a new UI element appears to shut it down.

"I'd like a backup plan to get us and the CAI to safety someday. I don't know how. Run ideas past me when you think of them. Maybe funnel some money. You can investigate to research a plan and what you can do to enact it. Look over the salikai plans, see if there's... no, nevermind, I don't want to know. But do know that Vanski will go for a nuclear option over a stalemate in the long term. Oh, but if you find one Arza Fletch, he may be the most cooperative in saving you and your AI's. Or rather, cooperative and in a position of power."

There are some ideas that I have to bypass, simply because my empathy creates too much danger. I hope the nukes were a lie for more than just the idea of Vanski having them.

"Some way to save your family in block C if the salikai do manage to make a new archcycle. You may not care about them now, but if you get the memories back, you will. Now remember, neumono may not be telepathic, but there are plenty of things that I do not want to think about. Now, what have you done with the CAI and do they know about you?"
>"Not a thing! I've just looked through their eyes, so to speak, but so far, I don't even think they know I exist!"
"Hrm... okay. We may need their cooperation, but they may be willing. I'm curious, when you were in block C... how did you get there? What did it look like to them?"
>"I dunno. I basically tore a hole through it, then a few smaller holes to grab a few strings and take a look. Didn't do any harm but it was like, acupuncture investigation."

He shows up on my laptop. In front of the UI, like he was an invasive desktop 'buddy'.

>"And hey look, they threw some string material and a tooth back in! I was gonna dissolve it like the RS normally does, but I really do feel better with a shell, and it feels even better with a tooth. I guess my core really did get made with one in mind. Except it's a little awkward. I mean, Rulekeep made it with some other Glitcher named 'Mittens'. I mean it's just little friendship cuddles that make teeth, it's not like it's a big deal. But it's like this tooth is a physical manifestation of hugs."

>"And I just put it in my mouth."

>"I gotta admit though it's mostly awkward since Rulekeep really threw in a lot of teeth scratches over the last few minutes - your time, lot longer for Block C - asking if I could hear her. And I just don't want to break the news. I kinda screwed that up I should've just gone toothless. Oh! Oh, you can say you're Likol and you prevented the RS from dissolving the tooth or some bullshit after seeing the first. And then write your message - or just tell me what you want to write - cause you did want to talk to block C didn't you?"
"Please hide the shell and tooth from the RS observer. What do you want your story to be for block C? They'll be asking about you."
>"Just say I'm dead. Or, that you can't find me. Whichever. No one wants to be on either side of a one sided relationship - wow that phrase makes no sense, but - "
"I know what you meant. Actually, before I have you write anything on the tooth... I'm curious, can you give me a visual of what the corruptor and the stabilizer look like?"

They're drawn on screen.

"Which one is which?"
>"The sad looking snake is the corruptor, and the jerkface is the savior. Or I guess you call him the stabilizer."
"He doesn't look that much like a jer-"

Artificial laughter comes out of all the speakers in the room.

I almost ask, but I don't think I want to know.

"Can't you just get your memories from the data in Block C?"
>"No! I mean yes! I mean I have! I know everything I've ever done, but those were - okay, let me rephrase, I got my memories, good job me, but I want you to get my experiences back. Not just some, read-a-book list of memories. I want to feel and be that gushy sentimental guy I absolutely and definitely was before this RS thing stripped me down. Now let me know what you want to write down, but are you actually going to be okay with other neumono in the meeting?"

>For the meeting, just get yourself really, really hyped about how you're finally learning stuff about the RS and what's been happening in Block C
Although I am legitimately excited for advances in the field, I tend to have lots of thoughts bouncing in my head. There is no way I will be unable to think about how the majority of Vanski's facility and resources within are being controlled by a rogue AI with a level of manipulation far exceeding that of a CAI. Including the CAI itself.

"... Glitcher, maybe give me something to be excited and happy about for my meeting with Vanski, to overshadow all the negatives."
>"I'm not a literal god who can give a sad stress-sack like you miracles of happiness, you know! Just gimme some toothy write-downs."
>>
No. 761509 ID: 44359f

Ok, say... "I am sorry to disappoint you, but this is a message from Likol. We have been trying to reconstruct your friend. We have made some progress but are not there yet. If you have some information on how his mind stored experience-memories as opposed to just fact-memories, it would help a lot."

That should cover the essential emotional points, reality mixed with hope.

Then: "You, he and my hive are in some danger; the salikai have control of everything out here, and we need to convince them to keep you alive. And to not be angry at us, preferably. Please try not to cause problems, and to search for and provide anything you can think of to make yourselves seem valuable. The salikai are ruthless and can be vindictive. I will set up a program to fill you in on questions you have about the world out here."

That "program" will be the Glitcher. Something for him to do, and he gets to hear his friends talk. It'll be like he's in disguise!

Also tell Glitcher that you're sure it's occurred to him that it would be better to do some things without telling you, so that you can't unwillingly give them away before it comes time for them to be useful. Tell him that doing that sort of thing would be (wink) very unfeasible, because they would have to be well-hidden to a degree that you're SURE (wink) he isn't capable of (wink), and you'd like to discourage (wink) him from doing any such thing (wink wink).
>>
No. 761510 ID: b1b4f3

Find where Glitcher's new experiences are being stored. That should give you a reference point you can use to track down his old ones.

As for you, instead of thinking about these great achievements try thinking about all the awful things you did. Rulekeep can help! Tell her sorry, the man she loved is still gone and you don't know how to get him back. Then beg for forgiveness. You thought it was impossible for them to be sentient. They weren't supposed to be capable of suffering. No one was supposed to suffer!
>>
No. 761513 ID: 211d83

Well we will work on getting you your experiences back. But judging by how it works with amnesia victims it might just take time and maybe a big shock to your system. As for other Neumono I can't promise anything. Just avoid telling me anything dangerous within a few days of any meetings. And let us know about surprise inspections in advance.

I don't suppose you have any books on hypnotherapy in there do you?

Ok here is some stuff to send to her. But before we do is there any way to match the Contests speed with ours a bit closer? So I am not sending messages once every few months/weeks?

Dear Rulekeeper,

This is Glitcher sending you a message pretending its from Likol. I am pretending to be dead because I have amnesia and am scared about seeing you again until I am fixed. Please don't be mad but my memories are not synced right and it makes me feel like a imposter. Send the kids my love and have Alison mail me some of her records.

Anyways Likol and his team of Science bunnies found me dying and failed to save me cause they are slow and stupid. But they did a half decent job zombifying my corpse so its not all bad. But it turns out they are slaves to some stupid snake assholes who have doomsday weapons. We all live in a computer sitting on a bomb run by madmen.

Never the less hope exists and I will be working on fixing things. Also it was me opening those holes in the sky earlier. As for why I am calling I need someone to live with me in the Ring Shell to pretend to be a clueless Ai that Likol is teaching to talk to you. Maybe someone stupid and horrible like Radmin. I bet he would love to be stuck here with me alone in floaty red space for the next few years. I will open a sky portal in a hour and you just shove some poor bastard into it.

Sorry I am such a coward but the old me loved you so much and I am scared I am not him yet. Tell Mittens thanks for the sweater and to keep his giant hands off my girl.

Love
The artist formally known as "The Glitcher"
>>
No. 761514 ID: e22b1d

>>761513

Yes give Glitcher that message and see how he reacts.
>>
No. 761516 ID: 44359f

Hmm. Actually, I wonder if an entity with the CAI's powers could fabricate something that would keep foreign neumono out. A conveniently accidental alarm of some description? Some experiment gone wrong? Gang of tribal neumono somehow got past the door? Unlikely. But possible.

So... foreign neumono can't really read your mind exactly, right? They'll just be getting emotional impressions. Perhaps you could trip them up on false positives for guilt and fear? Spend some time before the meeting really working yourself up over other anxieties. Talk to the medical team about their failure. Think about that schism you had and how this could maybe lead to another one. Think about your future and Vanski's opinion of you, all the possible long-term ramifications of what crimes you'll be found guilty of and anything else you can think, of unrelated to the Glitcher, that would make you feel scared and nervous and all that. Drink a lot of coffee.

Then those foreign neumono won't know what's what. Maybe?
>>
No. 761518 ID: 3abd97

>I want you to get my experiences back. Not just some, read-a-book list of memories. I want to feel and be that gushy sentimental guy I absolutely and definitely was before this RS thing stripped me down
Um. Well, if we don't yet have a way to access where you original experiences were stored, the simplest way to get the experiences back might be to reexperience them. Build a simulation to replay the memories encoded in the strings for you as they originally happened, and then lock yourself inside, throw all the processing power you have at running through it, and hack yourself so you forget it's not real and get to re-experience it. Build yourself an amnesia holodeck, and relive your live.

>>"Just say I'm dead. Or, that you can't find me. Whichever.
...I'll tell them you're on ice. That you are theoretically recoverable but we haven't been able to fully integrate your memories and personality yet. Which isn't a lie. We'll blame the RS intrusion on our attempted repair and a half-completed AI poking around blindly. Which also isn't a complete lie.

>communications with the people inside the sim
Tell them who you are, that you're trying to reconstitute Glitcher, and it would help if they explained what they know about how he works or how they pushed him into the Ring Shell in the first place. As you understand the CAI, he's not supposed to exist, and that wasn't supposed to be possible. Whatever they discovered that caused either of those things should help. What did they do? How did they build their own RS AIs? Why (and how) did they supplant the stabilizer?

Also apologize. You... didn't know anyone was alive inside there. There wasn't supposed to be.
>>
No. 761519 ID: edee29

>>761502
>I almost ask, but I don't think I want to know.
I think you do. If he's really that bad, maybe you should tell the Rulekeeper that you're disowning him and that she gets to be your stabilizer now.

>memories vs experiences
What he needs is to find out how the associations tied to the memories are stored and recreate them. If he can't figure out how to do that himself then does anyone in the simulation know how? The storage format may be different, but the mechanics should be identical.

Alternatively, we could just reset him again and then run him through a very convincing simulation of his life up until being deconstructed.

>message
Well, to start with, could we get some more people resurrected to get the simulation speed roughly equal to real time? Start sending ticks through and tell them to resurrect people until they're receiving them at about one per second.
>>
No. 761534 ID: db0da2

>>761518
>>761509
Seconding these two.
>>
No. 761536 ID: 44359f

We could probably also tell them to try find a way to survive an archcycle reset. "Your program" (Glitcher) can probably fill them in on the outside-looking-in perspective of how their world works, which might help.
>>
No. 761570 ID: a107fd

The one way we know Neumono can deliberately edit their own empathy is deep repression. So, try to associate the full terrifying implications of Glitcher being on the loose, with that schism your hive went through. Sort of a unilateral decision both times, right? You even ran out on the planning meeting, just to get this whole clusterfuck started properly.

Then, flush it all down the ol' memory hole until you're done explaining to Vanski that everything is fine, and will either continue to be fine, or become even better, as appropriate.
>>
No. 761585 ID: 8111b6

'My name is Likol. I am outside. I found the tooth. I am trying to rebuild this glitcher you speak of, but it is not a simple thing and may not be one hundred percent possible. Sorry for problems. Might contact again, or might not, depending on how things unfold on this end.'

Just a quick message. Deeper communication can be done when things aren't as crazy. ... and get some lights on.
>>
No. 761616 ID: 211d83

Glitcher: Come to the horrible realization that for the new tooth to exist Mittens has been making out with your girl.
>>
No. 761623 ID: 3abd97

>>761616
It's okay, he doesn't remember how to care about that right now.
>>
No. 761624 ID: 44359f

>>761616

Well, at least she's in... good hands.
>>
No. 761631 ID: e22b1d

Just imagine it Glitcher.

Mittens sees the holes opening up in the Ring shell and knows this is his chance. He teleports to Rulekeeper knowing that she will do anything to save you.

Caressing Rulekeeper with his meaty monster hands he nibbles on her ear as she gasps. "But I can't betray Glitcher like this" she sobs as she puts up a show of struggling in his grip.

"It's the only way to get a new tooth Rulekeeper. You know what we have to do." Mittens whispers into her ear as he slowly runs his hands down her body.

Lewd tooth making commences as Mittens does intimate horrible things to Rulekeeper.

But luckily you can't feel things so who cares right?
>>
No. 761642 ID: 44359f

If you want things to get science-excited about, Likol, he did say he had kids, somehow. Probably with this "Rulekeeper", the way things sound. Imagine that! I mean, the different boxes are supposed to be basically separated systems, right? Yet not only can a RS AI wear a suit made of inner system material, AIs from each system can intermingle to create new AIs? Think of how weird and unusual those new AIs must be! Think about how much it could be possible to learn from them, and from the process of their creation! Think about how much better AIs probably are at making AIs than naturally selected carbon poppets like yourselves are! Think about... the system now definitely having multiple AIs in it that won't even survive an ordinary cycle reset and reincarnate, much less an archcycle. Uh, geeze. Um. Think about... AI breeding programs... damn, there's a lot of dark placesto potentially go, actually.

But still, science, right?

I know you've got a lot of stuff coming soon to dread, but, you've been trying to do the right thing so far, Likol. Take a little moment for yourself, bask in the warm light of discovery.

>>761631

I think Glitcher's "hands off my girl" was always more about people threatening her than jealousy. And it was generally directed at people he didn't like anyway. He didn't mind the sim-pomi's interactions with her. I'm not sure any of the AIs ever really had any concept of monogamy? I also think he'd be at least a bit happy that she found someone to keep her company, considering he was basically dead. He'd joke about it, I think, but he wouldn't really want her to insist on loneliness for his sake.

And hey, once you go glitch you ain't gonna switch.
>>
No. 761780 ID: bfb318
File 148023109993.gif - (36.76KB , 800x800 , 74.gif )
761780

>Some experiment gone wrong? Gang of tribal neumono somehow got past the door?
Damn, under the right circumstances, this could temporarily remove Vanski's neumono escort, but the fact that I come up with it is dangerous.

>So... foreign neumono can't really read your mind exactly, right? They'll just be getting emotional impressions.
That's right, but exact things have been gotten before. Not from direct mind reading, but... if I say something, the other neumono will realize I might be lying. Then they'll press, and realize I'm leaving something out. Then they'll realize I'm half-lying. Then they'll play 20 questions, and, well, without being able to lie effectively, well, experienced neumono interrogators have an easy job.

Then again, I have studied meditation and tricks to try and avoid this. I may do it again, but it's difficult.

I have glitcher scratch a message onto his new tooth for Rulekeeper, who I can assume is stage 8.

I'm sorry to disappoint, and sorry for much more than that, but this is Likol. I never thought all of you were sentient, but I expect you've realized my error. We are trying to reconstruct your friend, but we're not there yet. If you have any ideas on how his mind stored experiences and not just fact based memories, that would help. If you're capable of resurrecting more people, do so. I will tap the tooth one time per second. Slow down by resurrecting more people until you receive the taps at one per second.

>"I guess that's okay."
"For your experiences, Glitcher. Can you not just build a simulation for yourself to reexperience your life before this, and maybe just hack yourself so you aren't aware you artificially remade your own life?"
>"Oh huh that's an idea. I mean that would work wouldn't it."
"But you don't like it."
>"It was, uh, pretty lame right up to the end. I want to have the experiences but I don't want to go through them, if you know what I'm saying. And hacking myself is kinda, I dunno, cool sounding if I were doing something cooler than just this. Yeah I'm not feeling that."
"You might feel that it was worth it if you had your experiences already.
>"Yeah ironic or something. Let's keep that on the back plate and try another way first."
"Anyways, please have Rulekeeper write a report on how everything in the cycle got so abnormal, like supplanting the stabilizer. Oh, and that if my stabilizer treated anyone poorly, then this new stage 8 is welcome to be the new stabilizer. It's not my enemy."

There are a lot of questions I have regarding how they got to the RS in the first place, how glitcher has 'kids', and what the simulation looks like from the inside, but Vanski's meeting is going to occur too soon for me to indulge.

Rulekeeper already wrote a long reply with a list of questions.

"Glitcher, please tell her I'll answer it as soon as I can. And also... remember you can't tell me every dark secret around, so although I am nervous about how much you're doing, there are things, I'll admit, you should do without telling me."
>"Wait do you want me to tell Rulekeeper that last part or..."
"... No. Just that I'll answer it as fast as I can."
>"Well okay then buddy. Anyway Vanski's on his way over if you want to meet him halfway and I dunno get him a present or something."

>"He likes those."

I would almost think that I am dreaming all of this.
>>
No. 761782 ID: 211d83

Well what does he like and where can I get some quick?
>>
No. 761784 ID: 15a025

What kind of present does he like?
>>
No. 761785 ID: 3abd97

>Damn, under the right circumstances, this could temporarily remove Vanski's neumono escort, but the fact that I come up with it is dangerous.
Vanski's a paranoid old coot, though. He'll look for someone to blame, and if something goes wrong with his neumono escort, the first place he'll cast suspicion on is the neumono he was planning to inspect and might have something to hide.

>I would almost think that I am dreaming all of this.
There haven't been nearly enough sexy naked hivemates or unmitigated scientific success today for this to be a dream. Granted, you've had both of those, but not enough, and not at the same time, so you must be awake.

>Vanski's on his way over
Then we have time to make the lab presentable. We need the lights and the quantum computer back on, the phone on the hook where it belongs, Glitcher needs to hide himself and any damning information from the UI, and we need a harmless crippled phoney Glitcher to show off, and progress towards constructing a working communication link with the simulation (that's not complete).

None of this is a lie- so long as you think about and discuss what you are capable of doing or figuring out on your own. Ignore what Glitcher is capable of doing for you on his own, since you do not understand that, and it's cheating. A shortcut. The science isn't there for it yet.

>meet Vanski halfway
It would be out of character for you to do so. You bring more suspicion by breaking routine to leave your lab when something critical is happening.
>>
No. 761787 ID: 91cfcf

>>761780
Do you know what kind of present people have given him in the past?
>>
No. 761790 ID: 44359f

Well, if you're lucky, Glitcher will have thought of something to remove the neumono himself, and since you didn't give him the idea, you can honestly say that you had nothing to do with it. So far it's just one of those silly panicked thoughts that anyone might have, like "maybe I can just pretend I'm not here".

Anyway do you have a place you generally meet for meetings like this? Send some hivemates over to tidy it up while you go to meet Vanski. Do you have any idea what presents he would like? The only thing I can think of him having reacted to was a photo of himself you gave him once, and I assume he's moved beyond being impressed by things like that. You'd know him better than us. And Glitcher seems privy to his secrets, too. But do you even have anything to give him that he doesn't already have?... Food? What does he like to eat? Send some hivemates to get him something salikai like to eat or drink at your meeting.

Hey, could you get Glitcher to make your "presentation" AI have a little interface that looks like a salikai? Maybe a cute rudimentary simplified or cartoon salikai thing, or something. It's a very primitive tactic for appealing to your audience but it might be worth a shot.

I wonder, could Glitcher sort of "puppet" the AI you're going to be showing? You want to show Vanski something with impressive capabilities, after all. If you show him a non-sentient AI that sometimes somehow does things that only a more advanced AI could do, by drawing from some hidden process and possibly a connection to the deeper system that you don't fully understand yet, that might impress/intrigue him.

Don't tell Glitcher to do any such thing, but maybe wonder about it out loud.
>>
No. 761791 ID: b1b4f3

If you were to get him something, keep in mind he will be curious how you knew he liked presents. Privileged information could be your downfall.
>>
No. 761792 ID: b1b4f3

Hey I thought of how you might be able to avoid interrogation. At some point during the ensuing conversation with Vanski you should bring up the inconvenience of being cut off from the outside world since he obviously won't want to risk someone getting to you and stealing your knowledge, right?

If you're kept under lock and key they won't be interrogating you.
>>
No. 761795 ID: 91cfcf

>>761791
Everyone likes getting free stuff. The only suspect part is making it too weirdly specific, and if it's something general enough to be guessed from basic knowledge of his personality or salikai in general, it's easy to explain. He's the boss and he needs to be made happy, especially after the failure with his girlfriend.
>>
No. 761816 ID: b412df

Nothing that would be out of character, so that would probably be nothing but making the lab look decent, and results.

Start compiling what data you have from the RS AI's intrusion, so the section of decoded RS, so you can present a narrative of how things happened, so way more active than usual cycle, previous cycles got activated, stabiliser failsafe got activated, and a RS based AI ended up in the RS, and it decoded a section of RS before being dissolved. You decided to leave the simulation running and reconstruct the RS AI to try and get it to decode more RS, and here we are.

Neumono being present is going to be tough, so start predicting what Vanski might ask, for example about leaving the cycle running, and what caused the failsafe to activate, so they don't throw you which could make you appear emphatically suspicious. Try to substitute clinical terms for the AIs, so RS AI for Glitcher, Stage 8 AI for Rulekeeper, Generosity Anomaly for Alison. You have results you have and the potential for more.

If you seem like your talking off a script from going over this, you can play that off as being nervous as this is the first interesting thing that's happening in 30 years, and given you took a slight risk in doing so you wanted to present it properly.

I'm not sure if we should mention that the stabiliser got subsumed, Vanski might interpret that as the Stage 8 AI having the potential to damage the sim, but not mentioning that might make you seem emphatically suspicious. Just try to get all the suspicious thinking that might occur during the report done now so it won't happen in the report, before Vanski and the neumono get in range.
>>
No. 761832 ID: df49f7

You should get him a delicious cake. You must know what flavours salikai like by now, right?

Anyway yes, only do preparations for the meeting you could conceivably have come up with yourself, knowing that he would come by to talk to you eventually. Tidy up, be presentable, tea and biscuits, et cetera. Maybe if there's some other project someone else in your hive has been working on and hadn't gotten a chance to present to Vanski yet, they could bring over a prototype, if it's something suitably interesting and portable.

If he does have neumono with him... perhaps we can get them on our side. They're probably hardass mercenaries or something, but they're still people. It's not like the salikai can literally program neumono to be perfectly loyal to them and obey their commands unquestioningly, right? Not yet anyway, ha ha! Ha ha ha ha...

So yeah when he gets here and they're here beside him maybe you just go "I believe you appreciate honesty sir, so I'd like to preface my statements by saying the fact that hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions of increasingly likely-to-be-sapient intelligences are resting on the decisions being made today has been very much weighing on my mind. Aside from direct concern for them, I am also worried for the state of my hive, as many of the younger members are still quite idealistic and an increased chance of a schism is a possibility if things play out a certain way. I am sure you remember the trouble from last time. This has all been sudden and I have not had time to properly order my thoughts, so please forgive me if my notes thus far display some bias. I hope to make a more thorough and balanced report later."

Then the neumono with him, combined with feeling your honest empathy on both of those, will be made aware both of the AIs' lives (which anyone with any scrap of morality/ethics should be concerned for) and the schism chance (which is still technically in the offing based on your decisions, and which neumono specifically should be sympathetic towards). You might also shoot them your own unspoken empathic "please help me out" message to them, depending on how potentially helpful you sense them to be.

>>761816
>stabilizer

Well, Likol could say he's found evidence that the stabilizer as-was had undergone some manner of gradual degradation and that, once this reached a certain point, a dormant system inside the cycle activated which corrected it back into a less dangerous and more useful form, and that while investigating that whole process thoroughly is still on his list he does not currently believe that it is any immediate cause for concern.

Really, there's a lot of questions Likol can still answer with "I don't know everything yet, but I intend to", and Vanski's neumono would be able to sense honest confusion and intent to find out more from him.
>>
No. 761966 ID: 8111b6

Maybe that meeting Likol ran out of could be thrown back together as a way to get out?

Also, any small things he likes that aren't too much hassle to get and give?
>>
No. 761973 ID: bfb318
File 148029751774.png - (48.74KB , 800x800 , 75.png )
761973

"Thanks for the tip, Glitcher, but if I do something like that, he'll wonder why I've left the laboratory in this situation, and how I learned he likes presents."
>"Oh yeah I guess that's right. Huh."
"But, for sake of future reference, what sort of present does he like?"
>"Hand made pottery. He loves that shit!"
"Hm. Alright. Remember, seemingly sentient but simple AI that is not actually sentient, and a lead, but not yet successful, method to communicate with the stage. Maybe puppet the AI a bit yourself to give it a hint of complexity."

I make sure the lights are set to a comfortable setting for Salikai, and that the quantum computer is operating in full capacity.

"Glitcher... Glitcher, I need this 'no memory' message gone! I need you to remove all UI hacks."
>"Fine you got it buddy." Glitcher puts his arm around a digital mockery of me. "Vanski ain't that fun is he?"

I suppose that's apt.

I start trying to think of the right narrative. I think I have it down, but maybe it's the slight calm before the storm mixed with all this stress, but I'm having a difficult time predicting what Vanski might ask other than the obvious ones.

Maybe that's for the best. If I'm overly tired, I'll think less, which in front of other neumono, may be best. I think I'm going to end up pulling the 'I don't know everything yet, but I intend to' card a lot in this meeting.

>Emergency meeting to get out of Vanski's meeting
Quokko thinks that would go poorly.
>>
No. 761974 ID: bfb318
File 148029752813.png - (54.22KB , 800x800 , 76.png )
761974

Glitcher removes all the evidence I can see - and hopefully what I can't see - when my hive starts broadcasting a Vanski sighting.

Momu and Rihhin return. Reon takes his leave to get some sleep. Quokko doesn't re-enter the laboratory, but she does stay within empathic range nearby.

Vanski, 4 arkots, and 2 neumono come through the hallway.

>"Likol, Rihhin, Momu, it's been awhile." he says.
"Hello, sir." I say, and Rihhin and Momu stand to my side, making a nod.
>"I've heard from Kiiu that you've made a potential breakthrough, and wanted his help making a proper presentation, correct?"
"That's right, sir."
>"I look forward to it, but even if it wasn't me doing all the work, I've put in colossal resources over the course of thirty years. You should see the electric bill."

I think that was a joke? Or at least a funny smalltalk? Salikai don't typically do that, and it's as though he did it entirely for my own amusement. We make awkward smiles to politely acknowledge it. Thankfully, the other neumono don't feel it's worth reporting how awkward we are about it before Vanski moves along.

>"Before that, I want to know what I can expect. Your message was vague. So, consider this to be a presentation of what your presentation will be about."

One neumono reports that I seem unduly stressed and exhausted.

>"I hope I'm not coming in at a bad time." Vanski adds.
>>
No. 761976 ID: 595d54

"As we've said, the potential breakthrough is only potential, and I am well aware of the stakes. I have been working to ensure it goes smoothly."
>>
No. 761978 ID: 3abd97

>"I hope I'm not coming in at a bad time." Vanski adds.
You've arrived at the most confusing, complicated, and demanding of my attention time in my entire career. So it's the best time to be here, and the worst.

>So, consider this to be a presentation of what your presentation will be about.
We've had some unprecedented developments that may give us the breakthrough we've been looking for all this time.

We've discovered than an RS AI is possible, and that using the RS to communicate with the simulation is possible. We're currently working to understand, recreate, and exploit this breakthough. (That's the tldr reduction, leaving out how we discovered this, how it works, etc. Also, that's all theory, and it's all true).
>>
No. 761979 ID: 211d83

Sorry I have been up all night double and triple checking everything over and over.

Having the possibility of a sudden breakthrough after 30 years of constant slow progress has us all worked up. I have been working constantly since the discovery to find out everything I can and make sure this is a actual breakthrough and not just a fluke.

Come on in and I will show you the beginnings of our presentation.
>>
No. 761981 ID: db0da2

It's probably better to brush over being unduly stressed than to overexplain, to avoid dispensing obvious and suspicious half-truths. Say what you would say if things weren't going perfectly smoothly, but not bad enough that you'd be willing to mess up impressing your boss.
>>
No. 762000 ID: 44359f

Alright, I want to have a go at that "be honest/tickle the other neumono's consciences too" plan.

So, let him in to start with, so that you're not being rude, and while you walk say something like: "There are no unequivocally good times to be had for me right now, sir, and there will not realistically be for some time, I think. To be honest, I still haven't fully gotten over either the excitement of the breakthrough and its possibilities, or the shock of going from "we have been erasing the memories of probably-not-sapient AIs" to "we have certainly been killing probably-sentient AIs", and that probability has only been increasing. Kiiu has probably told you that I am somewhat preoccupied with the possibility that you might decide to have the ones alive now disposed of, and it's still true, for now. I hope I will be calmer and more balanced in my mind later, if we don't discover any further upsets. As it is, I'm not there yet, so please forgive me if I seem confused or if my concerns push me to present things with some bias." (Maybe give the neumono a bit of meaningful empathic eye contact, here). "I simply haven't clarified things fully yet, even to myself. I was vague in my message partly because at the time I sent it, I could only be vague, as we had mostly possibilities and only a few certainties. For the most part, that's how the balance still stands right now, to be frank."

That done, you can start going over the basics.

"The condensed version of the story is: We may have what seems a very advanced AI that we will probably be able to make a great number of valuable advances by studying. It currently occupies the Ring Shell, and we may or may not be able to extract it from there into another system, as it may or may not require some manner of lingering connection to or resources from the internal system in order to function at its fullest. There are some theoretical risks, but we have been taking steps to reduce them and we do not believe there is a threat to us at this time."

If the neumono sense a problem from you on that note, say: "Your attendants probably sensed a spike in my anxiety just then, and yes there is more I could say on that topic, but the situation right now is really the best we can manage and it would only increase risks to disturb it, believe me. In the worst scenario, which is very unlikely, it will still be the case that the AIs will be intelligent enough to recognize the power we have over them, the same as our current CAI."

Then go on: "I will be able to say more later. We have also discovered a method by which we could theoretically retrieve information from within the CAI generation system, which offers a lot of potential, very valuable advancement as well, but again, it is untested."

"The basic timeline of events is that, during a particularly anomalous cycle, though generally of anomalies we have seen before, a blend of RS virtual material and in-system material was ejected into the RS, in the shape of an AI. This may or may not have been an intentional act, though we detected some communication between the RS AI and the AIs within the generation system, as the in-system material was almost immediately ejected back out the way it came in and the RS material was torn apart. Most of our work between now and then has been to put it back together, which has resulted in an... incomplete version of the original AI. There is still more reconstruction to be done. If you want, it is possible to have some interaction with it, though I would honestly be a little worried. There are... quite a few delicacies to the situation."

Fortunately, Glitcher puppeting the presentation AI means that interacting with it means, to an extent, interacting with him.
>>
No. 762004 ID: 398fe1

>>761974
Oh he's got other Neumono here already. Tell them not to worry about it, your state of mind won't stop your research. Then get to showing off your progress so far.

I doubt you're gonna get far in the report without your empathy tipping them off that something's wrong, so when pressed you should probably confess that you think they're all sentient and have been from the beginning which means you're personally responsible for the death of TRILLIONS and just wallow in your guilt. They'll figure that was what you were hiding from Vanskii and would probably stop any further interrogation because ugh what a sad sack, right?

>>762000
This story won't fit the actual progress we've made. The simple AI we've created is not sentient and there is no current advanced AI active in the ring shell as far as Vanksii knows.
>>
No. 762006 ID: 44359f

>>762004

With Glitcher puppeting it, it could seem at least partly sentient. It's also made clear that the AI on offer is one that's only partially reconstructed from what was briefly seen, which could explain why it doesn't display full sentience now.
>>
No. 762009 ID: b412df

>>761978
This, show them what you've got, including the section of decoded RS from the RS AI before it got dissolved initially.
>>
No. 762048 ID: 25393f

>>762000
I am wary of saying this much so quickly, plus I think some of this might be things we shouldn't be saying at all if we're not pressed to.
>>
No. 762078 ID: 44359f

>>762048

Well, if you wanted to reduce it down, I guess the general message of "I don't want to be rude but yes it is kind of a bad time, I am indeed very tired and stressed and there is a lot of information we're still in the process of finding, so I have doubts about my ability to tell you what's going on without slipping up, missing details or giving you the wrong idea" is the one to aim for.

However, some imprecision and confused feelings might be forgiven now that won't be later, and covering certain things now might mean those things can be skipped to some extent in the fuller report.

Or, admittedly, things said now might create a danger of creating contradictions in the full report later, which will draw attention. But that chance seems slim so long as Likol maintains a "this data is all pretty provisional and might be revised with new information" presentation.
>>
No. 762138 ID: 094652

"So I have good news, and then I have bad news. You know, the usual

Today, we discovered a mental cluster of AIs that managed to build a sort of avatar in our data readouts. We used morse code to communicate and lo-and-behold, we found it knew morse code! It's the first AI to have successfully read and applied the morse code books we put in the machine, along with all the other libraries. We started talking to it. Turns out it developed a simulated personality based on ALL the data of the outside world we fed into the current cycle.

So we fed it more. First source code, then text files, then pictures and gifs. Eventually, it wanted video. It started talking, making simple conversation, advancing its avatar further and further, anything to get us to give it more data. Eventually, we gave it our source code.

IT FIXED THE SOURCE CODE. Found some hacking vulnerabilities, and even better, gave us a diagram of how it would work as a process and what inputs and outputs it gave, all connected to the lines of code in our system, all as one big easily-read piece of art. We realized it could read the entire program and improve it further, give us a chance to find other sapient AIs in the system that could also simulate conversation but weren't as proficient in communication. So we gave it the entire source code and waited for an hour.

Then it started ranting and self-destructed.

Which brings us to the great thing about computers - Control-Z. We used a backup, recreated the environment, found the same cluster, gave it different information, which it used to solve a completely different problem while also comparing the intrinsic curves of a teacup to... well, let's just say our problem involved inappropriate content. Then it made some naughty clipart and set itself on digital fire, the digital avatar devolved in resolution as the bundles of clipart were randomized and finally deleted. Artists.

We did it again, and again, and saved different copies of the RS AI. We have physicists, biologists, engineers, politicians, philosophers (I wouldn't recommend that one), artists, even stand-up comedians who can take in a recent history of the world and call us out on how insane our society is. We couldn't stop laughing as it died for the killer joke. We're confident that we can transfer this system to other computers and with enough work in the near-future we can compress the AI so that it works with phones and CAI augmentations.

Which means, after three decades and billions of gambling money re-routed to this 'dead-end' venture, we did it. We're done. With the alpha, that is. Super-AI 1.0 is cooked and ready for deployment.

And NOW for the bad news: according to the autopsy of our AI 'corpses', it seems that there's some form of 'mental labyrinth' that this specific AI base needs to sift through to prevent it from degenerating, slipping into Maverick, or tripping over its own brain and tearing the wires out. So basically, our current version is a sort of 'hacking consumable' that learns about its job, makes intelligent conversation with the owner to improve its performance through innovation, and MAY do its job before heading into a mad tailspin and self-destructing. At the current rate of research, and given that our knowledge of machine intelligence is mastered at the 'amoeba' level, you can expect we'll all be long dead and our great-great-grandchildren will be mooching off our old money by the time our successors develop a stable, lifelong innovative AI.

Also, the RS AI sputtered some code names before it fizzled the first time, so if you want to give your new company signature tool a brand name or something..."
>>
No. 762140 ID: 398fe1

>>762138
We're right next to a lie detector, bud.
>>
No. 762148 ID: 91ee5f

>>762140
2 of them, if we're being accurate.

3, if you count Vanski being able to read body language and facial expressions and being able to tell if he's bing lied to based on the way Likol says things to him. Because, based on their past conversations, if Likol acts too differently, Vanski could probably pick up on it without the help of his neumono.

After all, the Salikai couldn't have gotten this far if they relied only on loyal neumono being their lie detectors and not being able to read into if someone's lying to them through body language.
>>
No. 762496 ID: bfb318
File 148048101305.png - (27.83KB , 800x800 , 77.png )
762496

"It's turbulent right now, but..."

... How do I finish that sentence.

"It's okay."

... it's okay?!

"That is, it's as good a time as any."

Urgh. The other neumono pass on my nerves. I'm already tripping down a hill.

>"Nervous?"
"This is a potential breakthrough - " damnit, my empathy - "That is, I'm sure it is a breakthrough of some kind, but how it is and how useful it'll be is what I am trying to figure out for the meeting."

... ...

"There is a snippet of AI within the Ring Shell. It may be able to act as a liason - er, entity, of... that is, it may represent the RS, and effectively means we can communicate with the RS more directly."
>"A snippet? You once proposed the idea that the RS was entirely an AI."
"Y-yes, and that's still possible, but it seems like it can send pieces of itself elsewhere, and we managed to isolate it."

Another silence comes from Vanski, leaving the two guard neumono to stand over our mental shoulders looking at what we're thinking about. Their head and necks move slightly in a way that's familiar to me that they're speaking more.

>"You all seem unduly nervous." Vanski says. "This isn't dangerous, is it?"
"We have extra precautions set up."
>"............ I feel there is more to be said."

Damnit, damnit, the neumono are saying too much! They're thinking that we're thinking they're saying too much! They think this is amusing?! No, I think they're looking at my shirt.

"... they might be sentient."
>"Oh?"
"You know that I did this experiment believing there was no way they could be sentient. There's.. evidence, otherwise."
>"And you believe you've been killing them all this time?"

I struggle to find the words to explain this to him. One of the guards answers for me, as I believe he just says 'yes'.

There's no appealing to the conscience of these neumono after all. They're barely uplifted brutes who have been near-brainwashed and filled up with blind loyalty to their leaders. Vanski wouldn't have neumono escorts that were anything less, or maybe not anything more than zealots. If these were well raised neumono that cared for anything except their hive and what feeds their hive, then they wouldn't be here.

"The experiment is still running, and... we may also have a way to communicate with the simulation in Block C directly. Even if I still had absolute confidence they were not sentient, I think there's too much merit to keeping them intact, currently, than there is to keep the cycles rebooting as usual."
>"Hmm..." Vanski says, as the escort reports that that is the truth, thankfully. Yet they're still also saying that they feel like not all of my thoughts are passing through my mouth. "Your thoughts are in a mess, aren't they?"
"Y...yes, sir." I say, and Momu and Rihhin give accompanying nods.
>"Perhaps I did come by too early, and I suppose you were vague in your message since nothing is confirmed yet. Show me the AI."
>>
No. 762498 ID: bfb318
File 148048102512.png - (31.62KB , 800x800 , 78.png )
762498

The AI that is shown seems like a good replica of how Glitcher was on initial reconstruction. Vanski introduces himself, and asks him virtually the same questions I did. It goes by without a hitch. If the rest of this meeting was going a tenth as smoothly, I wouldn't be wishing the stress would just knock me out.

>"You want to see the experiment come to fruition, correct?" Vanski says, turning to me. Glitcher, on the screen, gives me a thumbs up. When the escort neumono team look to see what just made my hearts stop, Glitcher dives off the side of the monitor. That dumb bastard.
"Of course."
>"It seems like you've been wandering through halls for ages, and finally stumbled into a vast forest to explore. You're confused, overwhelmed and nearly shaking in your nerves, am I right?"
"Cl-clea... yes."
>"Are you hiding something from me on purpose?"

... I sure am. I sure am. Even if I could personally hold in that feeling, all of my hive couldn't. The neumono escort is about to say I'm holding out. It might be better to come clean than have them gradually interrogate me.
>>
No. 762509 ID: 398fe1

>>762498
Explain your feelings. If you tell him what it is you're worried he'll call a halt to everything and you'll be stuck for decades waiting for this to happen again. If he still wants you to elaborate, tell him he'll regret knowing. If he just lets you work in peace, everything will work out fine for the both of you.
>>
No. 762514 ID: 094652

"Sir, I would hide ANYTHING that would cause you to go into a wild frenzy, ordering your rent-a-cops to rape and murder us.

Can you.. promise to stay calm? Or something? Because I can show you slowly and maybe you won't completely lose your marbles."
>>
No. 762518 ID: 595d54

"Of course I am, sir. The situation right now is delicate and I would prefer as little interference as possible from any source whatsoever. We're facing a breakthrough in how the AI works and even the slightest thing going awry could have catastrophic results. With all due respect, I feel that the fewer people involved in this the better until we have solid results."
>>
No. 762527 ID: 3abd97

>"Are you hiding something from me on purpose?"
The only way to beat a lie detector is to tell the truth. You need to sacrifice a smaller secret to protect the biggest one (that the RS is completely compromised).

>>"Are you hiding something from me on purpose?"
Many things. This is a summary of a summary after our world has been turned upside down.

...and it comes at the worst possible time, when trust between us is the lowest, and such a shakeup could cost us access to this discovery before we even begin to understand it.

Make it about your own ego, your own fears, your own attachment to the project, your worry it will give Vanski an excuse to take it to you. Those are all very real emotions, and things you didn't want out in the open, but way less dangerous than your real secret. But dark enough he'll think he got at what's really worrying you.

Tl;dr- talking politics is the less ugly choice for the first time ever.
>>
No. 762593 ID: a8bc5c

"..Yes. The stabilizer program I wrote to prevent catastrophic damage within block C"

Do air quotes right here. Yes, with your fingers.

"Has been subsumed by stage eight."

end air quotes.

"I'm not fully sure what's going on in block C, but nothing has been damaged so far by this terrifying event.

Given time, I'm sure I can patch up the RS AI to talk to block C and find out, well, everything."
>>
No. 762612 ID: 398fe1

>>762593
It wasn't made to prevent damage, it was made to prevent too many error messages from piling up. A few error messages are good for figuring out how the RS works. A giant pile isn't useful.

But I mean yeah, that's another thing we could admit.
>>
No. 762616 ID: 6c5eb2

>>762612

Right, my bad. Still, it's something that Vanski doesn't know about but we do.

Combine that with a good outburst of panic at being found out, and Likol can probably obfuscate what's really going on.
>>
No. 762619 ID: d95874

"There are a few things, sir, yes, but for good reason. Your neumono should be able to tell you that I honestly believe things would very probably go worse, both for us and yourself, if I told you everything that I could right now. If I tell you some details without adequately explaining other facts first, I believe you might feel driven to action that you would regret if you had fuller information, and that full explanation will take more time and preparation for me, and preferably a chance to rest. I didn't want to be rude, sir."

It's true, since Vanski's more direct involvement will significantly raise the chances of mutual destruction and nuclear annihilation. If he takes over or assigns someone else to take over then the possibility Glitcher will need to do something drastic goes way up. You guys would be the best to deal with him, and increased possibility of you being taken off the job is increased possibility that this will all go wrong, for the salikai as much as anyone. It really is in his best interest that he not know everything right now. So, we can just straight-up tell him that not telling him is in his best interest - as well as ours and the AIs - and use those neumono to our advantage by making them attest to the fact we're telling the truth.

I think the "sacrifice a small secret for now" plan will be shot down as soon as we explain it and he goes "ok, anything else?"
>>
No. 762629 ID: a8bc5c

>>762619 So, in an effort to get around being found out via empathy, you'd admit that we are, infact, hiding stuff from the criminal overlord who brings neumono lie detectors with him on surprise visits?

No dice. If Vanski even thinks we're up to something no good, it's our ass.

It's also everyone's collective asses if he finds out we staged a fake AI puppet show with help from a very real AI that has access to everything.

I like your suggestion, but just as the sacrifice small secret plan has flaws, yours is based entirely on him buying a load of bullshit about waiting to find out whatever it is we're trying to hide.
>>
No. 762635 ID: d95874

>>762629
>So, in an effort to get around being found out via empathy, you'd admit that we are, infact, hiding stuff from the criminal overlord who brings neumono lie detectors with him on surprise visits?

He's about to find that out, anyway, there's no stopping that. And if he does that by himself, he's the kind of person who's going to come to the worst conclusions on his own. We need to give him a reason why we're hiding things that will mollify him. The neumono he has with him will be paying attention now for signs that Likol's not mentioning things, and they'll bring it up if they notice anything of the sort. We can head that off by admitting it before they bring it up, and using the chance to convince Vanski that it's his well-being on the line as well. Which it is.

Either we try get him to buy this bullshit (which isn't technically bullshit), or he'll come up with his own possibly even worse bullshit. And keep in mind, if he decides he needs to go interrogation mode, he'll probably bring in more of Likol's hivemates, who we won't be able to advise.
>>
No. 762657 ID: d95874

Since he'll probably be doubtful of the self-sacrificial presentation by itself, and be suspecting a more selfish motive from the science hive, maybe we should give him one to stop him wondering. So, as well as saying we're hiding some thing for good reason, we could also add an admission of a more personal reason as well, that when this AI first popped up we erred on the side of saving the AIs instead of the maximum safety options, and we're worried about his reaction. But that there are other reasons for being secretive as well.

I'm sure he already knows the neumono are concerned for the AIs, so it won't be mind-blowing or hugely upsetting to him that they fudged on the side of preserving them. Then, with that to feel guilty and scared over, and an explanation given for other feelings of secrecy, these lie detector neumono will hopefully not be able to manage the deep/complex reading that will sort out those guilty/scared/secretive feelings from the other guilty/scared/secretive ones.

Basically, on the assumption that they're foreign enough mentally to the science hive to have some trouble reading them with total accuracy (which it seems they should, if they're brainwashed thugs), then we just need to give them a good enough explanation for the empathic feelings they're getting that they don't feel the need to remark on them. They're probably not that smart.
>>
No. 762666 ID: a107fd

"Yes, sir. I've been trying to hide how much I care about the fact that there are more sapient AIs in any given archcycle than sapient biologicals in the known galaxy, and thus that starting a new archcycle is effectively a genocidal atrocity of incomprehensible scale. I was, and still am, concerned you would use that compassion against me and my hive."
>>
No. 762701 ID: 850f11

Yes sir I am.

We had to be somewhat lax with security and make up a bunch of new programs on the spot to get this Ai stable.

So I am worried you will yell at me for not following proper security procedures and order me to shut things down and work off the logs. But am also worried that if we had not done what we did we would have lost this opportunity.

And I am feeling guilty that I have been killing a uncounted number of Ai's over the years and soon I will have to explain myself to them.

And I really want this breakthrough to be the one we are looking for so that we can not have to erase this cycle.

So I am really hoping that you see the value in what we did and that you let us keep things running so I can learn from these Ai and not have to kill them.
>>
No. 762711 ID: 952ab0

Guys, come on, I love half truths and scheming as much as anybody, but with empaths here, it needs to be simple, direct, and real.

>>762666
Explain that you have been trying not to think about the implications of these AIs having been sapient all along. Actually think about those implications. The untold trillions of lives cut cruelly short right here under your nose. Your desire to see that end, your NEED to know for sure, to see this through. Have a breakdown right here in front of him. Those feelings are real, and will be overwhelming if you let them spin up.

It should end the meeting too.
>>
No. 762735 ID: 91ee5f

>>762711
That's a good way to give Likol mandatory vacation time, if Vanski is the type of boss to do that. He'll see how overworked Likol is and give him a vacation to give him time to recharge because Vanski wants Likol at 100% for a project this important.
>>
No. 762830 ID: bfb318
File 148056710747.png - (30.14KB , 800x800 , 79.png )
762830

"Yes, sir. I am. I'm afraid to do so, but I'm more afraid of your reaction if I do tell."
>"Likol... you three. Do you think that I would want to harm you? If you don't tell me what it is, I'm going to wonder if I should want to."
"I'd hope it wouldn't put you in a frenzy, but it's in your best interest that you don't hear it as well! Sir! I fully admit that my - our - mentality might be on edge since we've been committing mass genocide for nearly three decades, and I fully admit I'm wanting to save the current ones now that I think differently, but I can also assure you that telling you the full truth will harm all of us!"

The neumono report that as true, or at least that I think it's true. I do think about the implications of having killed off every single AI.

I feel nauseous, but I don't have a breakdown. I'd almost want to just to end this, and Momu's just hardly keeping it together, but as long as there's one of us that can still speak, this meeting, or interrogation, will continue. Vanski might even bring in Quokko if the three of us can't continue. Even if the meeting did end, the ramifications of a nervous or mental breakdown won't be insignificant.

>"Can you repeat that last part? That I, the one who arranged the funds and material for this experiment to be possible, shouldn't know what the real breakthrough is, or whatever it is you're hiding?"
"Correct! I don't want to say too much because I don't know too much, but the less people that know certain sensitive data," like potential nuclear - "the less people that know, the better!"

Rihhin is trying not to think about how much danger I think we're in, and Momu is mentally shouting the alphabet.

"... I'll admit that the stabilizer I made has been subsumed by stage 8."
>"What?"
"It's related to this RS AI, but in what ways.. I need to find out."
>"You do want this experiment to succeed, correct?"
"Of course." I say, and the neumono confirm it.
>"How dangerous is this RS AI?"
"As much as it is useful."

Did he ask me that already? I've ran through these questions and I can't recall. It's likely he might ask me the same question worded differently just to make sure I give the same answer, mentally and vocally.

>"So on the extreme ends of both. Is the CAI in danger."
"...It - It is." It's already compromised!
>"I understand, Likol. My brain wants to err on the side of caution, but there are limits to the opportunities I would let slide. Since you're confirming it's in danger, I am going to start double checking our anti-CAI security systems and further limit the things that they can touch to minimize the damage in case the CAI does get harmed. Maintain protocol for the RS to shut down if it becomes too far damaged as well. I will be bringing some of the ASE specialists into our facility. Refrain from doing anything dangerous until then." he says, and the three of us tense up. We tense up because we want to punch ourselves until we can't think. "It will only be a couple more... days... and it sounds like... you have already done something dangerous, haven't you?"

Too late.

>"You already did do something?!"

Just kill us now.

>"Likol... this isn't like you at all. Usually so cautious. These younger ones really have rubbed off on you with all this excitement, hm? Well, you did say that me knowing would be unfavorable, I take it what you've done is linked to what you're hiding?... Yes. And are you merely trying to protect the AIs inside of our blocks, or rather, is it in my best interest to unplug the CAI?"
"No!"
>"No!" Rihhin shouts it without meaning to when she catches my empathy..

All three of us shake our heads anyways.

No! No! No!

The screen flashes 'No!' while Vanski is looking at us.

The neumono escort stiffens up and shakes their heads as well.

>"If this situation is as bad as it apparently might be, I want more people on this than us Su'ata and you three individuals." Vanski says. His voice has flattened, but his movements are jerky like he's holding in screams. "I want to remove you from the project, Likol, but whether or not you're at fault, you're still one of the best RS observers outside of Arza Fletch himself. But I want results, and I want this cleaned up, especially if the situation can only get worse. There are others besides you and Arza. Aside from the security specialists, I'm bringing in ASE ring shell specialists. You'll be a much bigger team, and don't worry about credit, you'll still be the head scientist. Is that acceptable? Or rather, will that cause undue problems?"

I don't know ASE specialists too well, but they're the belenosian mad scientist stereotypes.
>>
No. 762832 ID: 398fe1

>>762830
Tell him it might slow things down, but you don't think it would be catastrophic or anything.
>>
No. 762833 ID: 094652

Thank him for the grant and ask if you can have a party before you (and your hive) go cuckoo from stress overload.
>>
No. 762838 ID: 3abd97

>Is that acceptable? Or rather, will that cause undue problems?
The answer is that his terms are acceptable. If they aren't, he's throwing you off the project and you lose the ability to influence anything at all.

This just because a long term shell game. Glitcher has to display a fake RS that looks normal, acts normal, and appears to respond normally to tools that interact with or diagnose the RS. He has to basically have all the computers lie to every outsider the salikai bring in for as long as they're there, and you won't be able to talk to him directly. We need them to not discover the RS is compromised, and block their attempts at progress. (Well, Glitcher does).

He can make you and your hivemates necessary, but helping you fake discoveries, making your new ideas and tools work, but not the ASE guys'.

All the while while looking for a way to fix his memories.

...as much as he doesn't want to talk to them until he's fixed, he might need to talk to the AIs in the sim. One person doesn't have the mental capacity to think of everything to keep up the act he will need to. That requires a CAI's worth of people. And they have scientists in there, who can help crack the RS and figure out where his memories are stored, while you're out here being watched, unable to help him.

The absolute first priority is breaking the archcycle reset button. Glitcher needs to disable that, and be prepared to fake normal looking sim data if it is ever pressed.
>>
No. 762839 ID: 90f3c0

Are the ASE entirely belenosian? As long as you don't have any foreign neumono in the lab, you should be able to keep your true intention hidden while you work with the Glitcher behind their backs. The Glitcher seems capable enough to keep himself hidden even with specialist poking around the RS.
>>
No. 762846 ID: 595d54

Agree and make sure he's far out of the way before you go somewhere you're confident he hasn't bugged to talk to Glitcher.
>>
No. 762896 ID: a107fd

>>762838
>The absolute first priority is breaking the archcycle reset button. Glitcher needs to disable that,
This I agree with.

>and be prepared to fake normal looking sim data if it is ever pressed.
Not so much. At that point, it would be better to subvert some sort of combat robots into securing the irreplaceable CAI hardware, and simultaneously broadcast all of Vanski's secrets to the general public, with particular emphasis on the location, layout, and defenses of this base. Throw that salikai paranoia into full "all is lost, abandon ship" mode and, admittedly you might have to worry about some spiteful last-ditch self-destruct mechanisms, but more likely the boss's attention is going to be focused on fleeing rather than tying up loose ends.
>>
No. 762902 ID: 5a2567

Maybe we should refrain from giving Likol any sneaky underhanded thoughts right now.

Tell Vanski that it is acceptable, if you would actually have enough real authority to make the ASE specialists listen to you; otherwise you think it's likely you'd have no control over them at all, in which case you wouldn't want credit for what they do. What you said about less people knowing the better does still stand, too, so lack of restraint will also increase the dangers to Vanski's operation.
>>
No. 762907 ID: a80326

Yeah, let's hold off on being sneaky and underhanded until the lie detector mooks are out of empathy range.
>>
No. 762913 ID: 5a2567

Oh, another thing. This may be the chance to bring Arza in. The idea of blackmailing him with the AI's lives is very distasteful, but presenting that idea may still be the best course. We need all the help we can get, and if he knew I think he'd want to give it.

Don't outright say anything like "blackmail", but, say something like: "Sir, it sounds like you're implying you don't intend to bring Arza into this. If I might say so... there are others with expertise, but he would still be superior, and I know he would be even more concerned for the AIs than I am. If it meant any better chance of securing their safety, I'm sure he would be willing to help in whatever way you'd ask of him. It's also probable that other belenosian specialists would respect him more than they would me."
>>
No. 762984 ID: 3abd97

>>762896
That plan prioritizing ruining the salikai substantially above preserving the AIs in the simulation, and considering there are more lives at stake there than the rest of the galaxy combined, that is not acceptable. Retaliation after the fact does not save lives, and the alternative of using the threat of such exposure to establish a MAD stalemate is not an option (since we don't believe Vanski is capable of holding to one, and because we know there's no such stalemate in the future).

The priority is to deny Vanski and his allies software solutions that would harm those people, and then to use deception to make sure they never have reason to attempt a hardware solution.
>>
No. 763051 ID: a107fd

>>762984
If Vanski deliberately pushes the "archcycle reset" button, knowing what he knows now, then cooperating with him is no longer a plausibly genocide-minimizing option. So, in that scenario, our first priority is to ensure (in advance) that the button doesn't work. Second priority, then, is ensuring that various other failsafes also fail when (not if) Vanski notices that the current archcycle persisted against his wishes. We don't know what all those failsafes are, but it's a safe bet Vanski does, and furthermore that their activation requires at least a few moments of his attention.

The point of the exposure isn't retribution, it's distraction. Specifically, putting Vanski in a position where he has to choose between "confirming the kill" on a compromised CAI and salvaging other assets including his own life. That's not a MAD-stalemate negotiating tactic, it's just a trap set to go off at the exact moment when negotiations have failed. The more outside problems Vanski suddenly has to deal with, the less attention he has to spare for follow-up, the more likely Glitcher & 10^12 friends survive.
>>
No. 763054 ID: 3abd97

>>763051
A confirmed kill on Vanski's part is trivial. He just has to slag hardware in the middle of an evacuation where he's slagging all the hardware he can't take with him anyways. The distraction doesn't prevent this. If anything, it encourages it.

>when (not if) Vanski notices that the current archcycle persisted against his wishes.
If all output from the box goes through Glitcher's sphere of control and is falsifiable, Vanski has no means to know that anything happening inside the box is different that the flase-UI-skin is telling him.

Unless they start remotely scanning the position of the bits in the hardware and reconstructing a model that way, but I don't think have the processing power to do that without another CAI.
>>
No. 763126 ID: bfb318
File 148066775041.png - (16.36KB , 800x800 , 80.png )
763126

I don't know if ASE are all belenosians, but they are predominantly so.

>The absolute first priority is breaking the archcycle reset button.
The actual software method of resetting can and probably has been disabled, but there is no way Glitcher can physically prevent Vanski from simply unplugging him, which also serves as a full reset.

"That is acceptable, thank you. Will they listen to what I say?"
>"As you are head scientest, yes, but I will be taking a much more proactive stance on this project, and so while you will outrank them, I will outrank you.
"I am also afraid, as what I said about the less people knowing, the better."
>"Yet without knowing why that is, I cannot put much weight on your words. Regardless, that is why I am only bringing in a handful of ASE scientists. They are professionals, and in the business to make discoveries, not for fame or fortune."
"What of Arza? You don't seem to intend to bring him, and he is by far the greatest."
>"Arza is about the last person I want here. Do not bother asking for him so long as the situation is as it is."
"Alright."
>"Then I'll be off. Oh, and do take advantage of the ASE specialists, and take some breaks.."
"I will." We need it.
>"Oh, one more thing..." He takes a deep breath, and looks around. "I am going to have a crew stop by here to install cameras. This is as much to watch you as it is to watch the belenosians."
"Alright."

He focuses directly on me, like he's ignoring how the other neumono report my misgivings. He knows full well that I don't think it's alright, but he expected as much.
>>
No. 763127 ID: bfb318
File 148066776735.png - (33.60KB , 800x800 , 81.png )
763127

Vanski starts walking off with his group. We all sit together.

I have to talk to the glitcher.

It wouldn't surprise me if he's already bugged the room now, until the camera is set up. I don't believe he could have set up a temporary camera without me noticing. I can also take my break and walk to a location that Vanski has not personally bugged, and speak to glitcher there, although that would also be on a network that the CAI itself has access to.
>>
No. 763128 ID: 398fe1

>>763127
We shall give no shits about the CAI itself. After all, if Vanski pulls the block, then the CAI will die as well, won't it? If the safest option is to speak to Glitcher where the CAI can listen, then fine.
>>
No. 763137 ID: eec6e8

There are probably things that need to be set up if possible before the crew gets here, though, things that you won't be able to do under camera surveillance. I can't think of any off the top of my head right now, though. Your hivemates could probably talk to Glitcher using the keyboard inputs? So long as they talk about something while they work, so it's not just silence through whatever bug there is. Grab their hands and relay that to them empathically, then go for a walk "to clear your head", and talk more comfortably to Glitcher and the CAI.

We might be able to use the ASE specialists as scapegoats. Er, no racist pun intended. If they receive more freedom than you, maybe one of them could be blamed for, say, slipping some clue in Arza's direction. We wouldn't need to blame any one of them specifically, just create "evidence" that hints toward the possibility.

Is there any possibility of talking to the specialists in a non-bugged location, before they start looking at things and demanding explanations where Vanski can hear? Maybe some office managerial style thing, some get-to-know-you meeting at, uh, the closest thing you have to a coffee shop around here? Some side room to the cafeteria or something?
>>
No. 763147 ID: 211d83

Honestly I don't think that could have gone much better. You managed to keep the big secret under wraps somewhat and even if he thinks your Ai could be more capable than it looks I doubt he realizes just how much Glitcher has access to.

Glitcher should be able to ensure that those cameras won't show anything you don't want seen.(cept for his pranks which will be worse) As for talking to Glitcher you should be able to do it anywhere the Cai has access once you get some callsign's set up so he can block the Cai from watching.

Maybe your emergency signal watch can be re purposed or something? Honestly you should just ask Glitcher to make you several Communications links and make sure he tells you nothing about how he did it.

But that being said he is a immature little guy so still be careful and paranoid about spying at all times.

Honestly if you think Vanski bugged the place start openly talking about how that went horribly and you couldn't live with yourself if those contestants had to die again. Try to plant the idea in Vanski's head that this is all a confused attempt to save the Contestants now that you know they are sentient. If he thinks you are doing shady stuff because you are on Arza's side now and trying to protect the Ai's it's much better than knowing Glitcher has access to his nukes.
>>
No. 763213 ID: 3abd97

>but there is no way Glitcher can physically prevent Vanski from simply unplugging him, which also serves as a full reset
He can make sure Vanski never has a reason to unplug him. Which means faking output Vanski will like. Glitcher has to put on an act.

>>763127
Glitcher owns your lab and any security devices in it. He also owns the CAI (though it doesn't know it) and anything outside your lab through that.

He hacked a god damn emergency hard line phone. That shouldn't even be networked. There's no way there's any remote recording devices in this room the Glitcher doesn't own, even if Vanski planted them right now.

>what tell Glitcher
Apologize, but the lab is going to be monitored and people you can't trust brought in. Your ability to help him, and communicate him at all, is going to be very limited. He's going to have to make a fake UI for people to interact with, so they only see what he wants them to, and never find out he's in control.

...you know Glitcher didn't want to talk to the other AIs until he's repaired. But they have scientists, people with an the ability to study the ring shell, and some understanding of it already. You wanted to work with them to understand yourself, and to help repair him. But if you can't help him, he's going to need to ask for their help. That, and no offense, but he likely can't think of everything to completely fake out all examination by himself. There's too much he doesn't get on his own. He's need other people coming up with ideas and checking his work to be effective, no matter how much processing power the RS gives him.

(Maybe make a fake puppet or an avatar, so he can pretend he's not who he is?).

...you should probably write up the answers to Rulekeep's questions for her. This might be your only chance to send a message to her before you're under too much scrutiny to do so.
>>
No. 763231 ID: a107fd

>>763213
>He hacked a god damn emergency hard line phone. That shouldn't even be networked. There's no way there's any remote recording devices in this room the Glitcher doesn't own, even if Vanski planted them right now.

Hacking the emergency hardline phone is extremely impressive, granted, but might be dependent on something like induction crosstalk from conduits laid out too close together. An audio bug set up in territory Vanski already controls might not be reporting back in realtime, and might not even have any real electronic components at all, just the microelectromechanical equivalent of scratching on a rotating wax cylinder. No way to hack that.

Let's talk to Glitcher about plans, but have as much of the conversation as possible be him asking questions in the form of text displayed on a screen, and us providing gestural and/or monosyllabic answers. Easy to pass that kind of thing off as irrelevant intra-hive chatter if it shows up on audio logs.
>>
No. 763471 ID: bfb318
File 148086939509.png - (23.74KB , 800x800 , 82.png )
763471

I make two quick, long steps to the desk and begin typing on the computer before the Glitcher thinks to do something stupid again.

There's a camera around. Do not mess up the UI. If you can hear this, make a VERY SMALL text display on the monitor.
>You got it buddy.
I'm going to take a walk somewhere else. Make sure to hide from the CAI as best as you can. I doubt the CAI is so loyal to Vanski that they would rat you out in such a position, it's a needless risk. I'm wanting to send a message to Rulekeeper. She had questions. By the way, make sure this typing ends up in a notes document that makes it look like I'm just arranging my thoughts.
>Go for it and you got it.

Rihhin comforts Momu and puts her hand on my shoulder, but half of the reason for being close to me is just to block the screen in the paranoid off chance that not just did Vanski put video surveillance here, but that it's of a high resolution. They caught on quick what I was doing.

I reply to Rulekeeper and there's some back and forth. She tells me a brief story about how she came to be and how she and Glitcher did things that were never meant to be done. It's mostly getting each other up to date on what's going on. Informative, but nothing to act upon right now.

"I'm going to take a walk. Rihhin, stay here. Momu, take a rest." I say, since she seems like one twig short of a break down.

Honestly, it's not a big deal if there is long ranges of silence for the bug to pick up. Vanski should know that for the most part, we go long stretches of watching our own computers, then having discussions afterwards.
>>
No. 763472 ID: bfb318
File 148086940560.png - (30.76KB , 800x800 , 83.png )
763472

I leave to go have a proper chat with the Glitcher. Or rather, there was nothing wrong with using the keyboard, but I wanted to get out of that room.

A nearby dusty console turns on as I pass by. This is part of our home that was used more when we had multiple times more neumono to the hive. This hasn't been used in years, but since we've focused so hard on longetivity in our tech, I'm not surprised it still works.

>"Well that went pretty darn well!" says the Glitcher, who seems to like showing his face on screen.
"The best as expected, Glitcher. I've been thinking. There are many people inside of the contestant block who have scientific minds, I'm sure of it. Maybe you don't want help finding your experiences again, but you need help creating a satisfactory cover and a steady but gradual flow of evidence to string along Vanski and the ASE specialists."
>"You don't think I can do it all by myself?!"
".... no."
>"Damn, good argument. I guess you're right. Okay, I'll assemble a team of people in the RS, since the only people I know are pretty good at making teams or being on teams. I guess. I dunno. I don't really want to."

Come to think of it, I may want to talk to the ASE specialists before going into heavily watched areas. The only places not bugged though are conspicuously out of the way.

"Why don't you want to?"
>"Well... you know what, let's forget about that. Actually, I have another thought. Say uh... even if unplugging me rebooted the archcycle, I'd still be here I think. So... hm. How do I... okay, a question. Let's say teleporters didn't actually teleport, but instead they disintegrated someone and recreated a perfect copy somewhere else the very next instant in time."
"Yes?"
>"Did they die?"
>>
No. 763474 ID: 595d54

"Catching up with philosophy? Sure, you died, if you want to call it that. But death doesn't have to mean all that much. You died, and then you came back. People used to have the same problem with sleeping or any other break of consciousness."

If Likol knows about how death and ghosts work in the simulation that might be a good point to make.
>>
No. 763475 ID: b412df

From their perspective, yes but they got cloned. From another's perspective, there'd be no difference. Is that what happens if bring contestants into the RS?
>>
No. 763480 ID: 3abd97

>>763472
...that's a very old question. One people have had since the first time anyone ever thought of a teleporter.

We actually have them, you know. Teleporters. Real ones exist. They're expensive, and they have range limits, and are basically too impractical for anything but military use, but we do. I guess people decided they're not killing themselves if they're willing to use them.

To really answer you question though- what makes you you? If it's just the collection of your parts, then, yes, it's death. But living creatures lose cells and exchange mass all the time. Is it just continuity of consciousness? But then everyone who ever had a heart attack or something similar and was brought back is a new person. No, a person is the pattern, not the parts, not the continuity.

For us neumono, it's easy. We have empathy. We can feel the thing that makes a person unique, that's more than their body. We can't feel it in other sapients, but we accept that it's there.

You don't have empathy, but you and Rulekeep went as deep as is possible into the other's code. You touched each other's soul. If you're really sapient people and not dumb programs, she'll recognize that part of you- that you. As long as that's there it doesn't matter if you died and came back, or if you just fell apart for a little while. You're here, you're you, you have whatever you call your hive, and you're different from your alternates.
>>
No. 763481 ID: 595d54

>>763480
>We actually have them, you know. Teleporters. Real ones exist. They're expensive, and they have range limits, and are basically too impractical for anything but military use, but we do. I guess people decided they're not killing themselves if they're willing to use them.

I'm pretty sure he knows. The way he phrased that question basically states that teleporters do exist and they don't disintegrate and recreate you.
>>
No. 763485 ID: 2c2c4f

>"Well that went pretty darn well!" says the Glitcher

Could have done without him needlessly popping up and drawing the neumono's attention to you noticing him. Tell him to be careful in the future. As for the teleporter question...

"Well, think of it this way. Imagine if the teleporter didn't kill you, but just created a copy, so there's two of you alive at the same time. And then, later on, someone threatened to kill you and leave your clone alive. I don't think you'd be happy with that; it would count as you dying, I'd say. So why would it be any less dying if they killed you earlier?"

"I suppose you could argue that, from the perspective of the rest of the universe, it's not as bad a thing, since they still have you and everything they could have needed or wanted you for. And the clone themselves would feel some sort of continuity, and have a right to the original's memories and feelings if they can have them; being a clone wouldn't make them less of a person, or less legitimate or deserving than the original, or with less real feelings; and if the original is gone then there'd be no issue with them inheriting everything from them. They'd owe the original their existence, after all, and would need those memories and feelings to live from, so they would have a duty to care for things the original cared for and an entitlement to others' feelings for the original."

"But I would say it's still death, yes. It's a complicated question. The... essence of a person exists somewhere in the midst of pattern and parts and continuity, but it can survive all those things shifting around it, and no-one has ever pinned it down for certain. Many cultures don't even believe in a single, central essence to a person at all. Many neumono hives, for example, have a more complicated view, colored by how our empathy works. You should ask a philosopher, not a scientist."
>>
No. 763486 ID: dd4df2

>>763472

>Did they die?

Yes, but their legacy lives on.
>>
No. 763487 ID: 2c2c4f

"You could also bring it to a more ground-level question. What would I feel if the situation was reality, and involved me, personally? I wouldn't want to die just to create a copy of myself elsewhere, of course. But if I was going to die anyway, I think I would be happier to leave a copy then to simply vanish completely, to continue my projects and care for my loved ones in my place. If I could have a copy without dying... well, it would be confusing and somewhat disturbing, but overall good, I think, because then there would be two people who care about what I care about. And if it turned out I was the copy, then I think I would just be happy to exist, and I'd rather have my original's memories and connections than nothing. I would probably think of the original as something like a brother; some kind of close family, at least. And it's considered normal for families to inherit or share feelings, relationships, obligations and so on. If I was the copy and my original was dead, then, well why not step into his place? I need a place to live, and there's a hole in the world shaped for someone just like me. If my original liked or loved someone or something, then chances are I will too."
>>
No. 763490 ID: 211d83

From the perspective of the person being transported? They might think they are dead.

From the perspective of the new clone? They think they are still the person they always were.

Basically it all comes down to how fast you transfer the data and the continuity of self. If you are awake for the process and it takes some time your consciousness will still be the old one. But we could argue with philosophers for a hundred years and never figure it out. Over a year or so every cell in a living beings body wears down and is replaced. But are they the same person after that year?

Like with us rescuing you. The parts that made you up still existed but had gotten confused. Your mind existed but was scattered and your consciousness was asleep. But because we are not great brain surgeons you now have a form of source amnesia. You can remember things but its all strange and separate from what you know.

Let me guess you are worried about transporting friends to the RS and killing them as a result? While we need help I certainly don't want you to hurt your friends. I guess it would depend on how you transport them. How did you get into the Ring Shell? Wasn't there a period where you lost a good part of your core material when you were trying to escape from the RS guardian? You were still you even though it took awhile to get back to full function. Could you open a hole and have them walk into where you are? The system would most likely keep there continuity the same.

Ultimately Glitcher you and all your friends are a hive mind of sorts. You have one giant super brain and its having millions of thought processes going on at once. Each of you is a separate person yet all of you come from the same place.
>>
No. 763494 ID: df49f7

"Are you thinking of yourself, Glitcher? I don't think it applies to you; it's more like you fell asleep, and just haven't recovered your memories after waking up, yet. Are you thinking of the AIs inside the system? I'm sure they wouldn't want to die, but would prefer to have copies if they were sure to die anyway. Not if there was a chance of surviving, though, not if copies being made meant giving up that chance. I'm pretty certain there are a number of AIs in the system now that can't be copied, anyway, and those might be the most important ones both to you and us."
>>
No. 763513 ID: 398fe1

>>763472
That's like asking if a tree falls in the woods and nobody is there to hear it, did it make a sound? Nobody knows, and it doesn't matter in the long run. If the person entering the teleporter experienced death, it was the most painless death possible, and the person who comes out of the teleporter is identical so it's like they were immediately resurrected.

Why, does he have a plan to safeguard the contestants?
>>
No. 763522 ID: db0da2

No, by that logic a person dies every time they fall unconcious, or whenever all their atoms are replaced, which happens about every 5 years for humans and faster for neumono.
>>
No. 763526 ID: 094652

Yes.

So what.
>>
No. 763615 ID: 2120ee

>>763472
Maybe? Doesn't really matter if they're un-deaded at the end of it.
>>
No. 763616 ID: d73f06

Yep, they died. When you copy someone bit for bit, you're not storing the electrical information that is stored. All you're doing is storing the atoms and their positions. Sure, you've recreated a man, but have you really but killed one to create a clone with no memories in their place?
>>
No. 763632 ID: a8bc5c

"That's uh... I suppose a very good question for someone who isn't me.

I think, from a technical and logistical point of view, that the answer is yes.

But I imagine that the answer really depends on the subject in question after being teleported.

Where are you going with this?"
>>
No. 763648 ID: d51e76

Yes. That would be like cloning someone, then killing the original.
>>
No. 763699 ID: bfb318
File 148097026868.png - (202.45KB , 800x800 , 84.png )
763699

"Catching up with philosophy? That's an old question. As far as they personally feel, yes, they die, but not in regards to anything external. Their being still exists. Their empathy, externally in the case of neumono or internally otherwise, still exists. It hardly matters. Are you thinking of yourself or contestants?"
>"I'm just wondering. Contestants get destroyed and reconstructed on every teleportation, and any transition between stages and safe zones, you know? Even if we saved every one from every cycle, in a way, they've already been killed. People who get farther are, you know, as you put it, 'internally' killed way more times. There's probably been like, 2 trillion deaths per cycle."
"What makes them AI remains intact. Even in living beings, our cells are completely replaced periodically in our lifetimes. Some cultures have called sleep a temporary death, and each break in conscious the same, although I don't think it's so simple. Still, it is like cloning someone then killing the original."
>"But... as far as everyone else is concerned, they basically didn't die, huh. What if the teleporter was instead just used to store the person and used them as save states? What if those saved states altered them slightly, where do you draw the line between them being the same person and them basically just being a whole new person?"
"Where is this going, Glitcher? I'm a scientist, not a philosopher. Are you worried about killing the contestants if you move them to the RS?" I don't mean to snap at him, but I don't like this line of questioning.
>"Close, but nooooot quite. Their existence feels, uh, you know, cheap. What if I just... sent them out? Like, did you mention broadcasting our location or something instead of firing nukes? I forget. I can do that but there's a buncha safeguards against it so they'd notice. Which is fine if they try to unplug me right now! But if I want to stay hidden, I can't transmit to the outside world. But! What I can do, is put them on a hard drive. A big one but still something someone could lift probably. So I just, you know, transfer the entire simulation to this hard drive, you get me? Then I have, I dunno, I hide it somewhere, there's plenty of hiding spots around here. Then someday when we can get it delivered out or have someone find it or something, the whole simulation can be recreated by less shitty people, including everyone inside. And by that I mean copy them over and delete them from inside where they are right now. They'd, uh, die pretty hard, but as far as the universe is concerned, they're still alive, just moved to a different location, right? And then we wouldn't have to worry about them. I wouldn't even need the whole MAD thing going on. Am I making sense? This is kind of weird for me to think about. I don't know if it's a good idea."
"And what about you?"
>"I'm already dead, dude. You're talking to the RS holding up a corpse pretending to be the glitcher. I guess I could just teleport a copy of myself out. The glitcher? I'm having weird identity issues right now. Should I change forms? Would that help you visualize it better?"
>>
No. 763704 ID: 398fe1

>>763699
You're not dead. You're just not the Glitcher right now. If changing your form makes you more at peace with that, go ahead.

As for Operation Existential Nightmare, don't do it unless they agree to it.
>>
No. 763709 ID: 595d54

"If you can introspect the RS is doing a damn good job. Personally, if that happened to me I'd consider myself to be still alive. Bodies are easy enough to modify that consciousness is what matters."

As for copying out the AIs, maybe try a few dummies first to see if they get picked up before doing it all at once.
>>
No. 763717 ID: 6efe5c

A person is a dynamic process, not a static object. As long as their process continues they can be considered alive.

I don't have any problem with it as long as they're paused during the cut and paste process.
>>
No. 763720 ID: dd4df2

>>763699

Ain't every dead person that has a chance at resurrection, though, even if they don't quite feel like it. You're privileged in that regard.

We really should address that, sooner than later. It feels a little like you're developing a separate personality from your previous one; no-one's a blank slate forever.

And if I give you the choice to be you... you might just want to remain you.

Is that what you want? Is that why you want a new shape? If it salves your conscience, nothing says we can't try to rebuild original Glitcher anyway. As far as I understand it, there's kind of another one of you in there already, isn't there?
>>
No. 763722 ID: 850f11

You didn't die Glitcher. Everything that makes you Glitcher is still there and was never destroyed. Just scrambled up a bit for awhile. You got very badly hurt and it will take time to heal from it. If we had restarted you properly with all of your access in place from the start you probably would be your old self right now.

We have lots of cases of biological people surviving horrible stuff with brain damage and going through something similar to what you are going through. Many times they recover completely but it can take some time.

I will do everything I can to help you but in the end its your choice and life to live. If you want to become someone new go for it. If being the Glitcher is making you uncomfortable then by all means change what you look like.

But know that one day everything might come back in a flash and all those memories could sink in properly. So don't burn any bridges to your old life or family. Even if you are a new person I bet they would take you in just the same.

Listen before we brought you back we made a decision as a hive. You and your family are part of our hive now. We are all in this together and live or die we will do our best to keep you safe. Hopefully one day I can safely introduce you everyone in my family.

So if you want to back everyone up ask them about it first. I bet you have plenty of clever people in there who could help you out. If you don't want to face them as Glitcher change how you look so you can interact with them. But people have a way of noticing little things. While they might not recognize your face they will eventually notice that the new guy is acting a awful like a Glitcher they used to know and love.
>>
No. 763729 ID: b412df

If you want to change forms, feel free. I do want to try and get your experiences back though, maybe missing that is partly causing identity issues, you know what you are supposed to feel like but you don't feel it, kinda a disconnect isn't it?

As for that plan, it seems like decent idea but I'd rather exhaust our other options first, if I can think of any that is.

Likol, does ASE stand for anything? It sounds like a acronym.
>>
No. 763737 ID: a107fd

So, you can offload everybody from the current archcycle onto a reasonable-sized modern-tech hard disk? That sounds like the kind of thing we should requisition materials for, then go ahead and do. That way we're more or less in the clear even if Vanski changes his mind, or some arkot trips over an extension cord. Nobody's going to bite your head off for keeping a few offline backups of potentially mission-critical data.

Next up would be seeing if you can actually restore folks from those backups, reinsert them into the cycles. Or, for that matter, get the code to run on completely non-archaeotech hardware. Must have some idea how the basic processing works if your quantum computer can interface with the blocks enough to help.
>>
No. 763743 ID: 4863e5

It's not as neat as that, Glitcher. One common way of looking at a life is as an ongoing process. Even when we sleep or go unconscious, there's still activity, even if the self-awareness or memory recording has been switched off. In some cases, people have been "paused", all activity shut down and then restarted, but in that case it was restarted from the same flesh. The point is that there's some sort of continuity. One metaphor that could be used is of a flame, passing from one torch to another. At different points in time, the fire is burning down the length of the torch, and the flames aren't exactly the same flames they were at an earlier point. And when the torch is used to light another torch, as it burns out, the torch changes but the fire continues to burn. In a sense, that's what a life is - in organic life, especially. An ongoing process being passed among the tiny torches of our cells.

In your sense, something similar applies. I am not convinced you did die, Glitcher. You are, currently, the Ring Shell system - and I believe you always were the Ring Shell system. Before, your awareness of yourself was limited, and you weren't aware of it, but it was the system you were running on. You never "died" when the Ring Shell took you apart - it simply altered your thoughts, in the same way that being drugged can alter an organic intelligence's mind. But the Ring Shell remained active, and all your lines of thought, your processes, continued within it. Then they were recombined. That is not death - that is a temporary alteration of consciousness. Do you think we organic beings are fully aware, fully self-conscious, or fully in possession of our memories all the time? We aren't. You are not dead, Glitcher.

I imagine something similar applies to the in-system AIs. Occasionally, their processes may have been paused, but their "body" is the system they run on, which never stopped operating. What they experienced in that sense is not really death, but sleep. Which, I suppose, makes their usual reincarnation at the start of each cycle not so much death either, but with the total loss of memory it is closer to death. Still an injury to them, and a crime; a terrible injury and terrible crime, to steal away a person's memories, and with it everything they cared for, effectively.

Beyond that, as a moral consideration, it is simply a good idea to have a principle of not killing people when you can help it. Arguments like "from the perspective of the rest of the universe they're still alive" can be valid, but they're a temptation. It's not a good idea to think in those terms, that you can excuse things that are normally terrible because you can claim you've mitigated it in this one instance. If you let yourself get into a habit of thinking like that, then soon you'll be using excuses that aren't as good.

But this isn't a discussion you should be having with me, Glitcher. If that's a plan you've come up with for "saving" these AIs, then you should discuss it with them. Personally, I would say to take the copies and then try to preserve their existence as is anyway, but it's their right to decide whether they're happy enough to "survive" in such a form, and whether they would consider it survival at all. It's not right to make that decision for them, when we can just talk to them about it.

Besides, even if you could save them to a hard drive, you'd need to plug that drive into a system capable of running them again. Generally, CAIs can't be copied, anyway. Are you sure that what you're proposing would actually work? It seems like the sort of thing that would need a lot more in-depth study and testing.
>>
No. 763751 ID: 3abd97

>>763699
The operation you're talking about is a "cut and paste" whether it kills the originals is... very philosophically ambiguous.

We're spared some the problem by the fact that we don't currently have a medium outside of our CAI blocks where CAI-style AIs can survive. You'd be trying to resuscitate freeze dried bodies afterwards, and I'm not sure it would work.

Making backups and keeping them up to date isn't the worst idea if the worst happens. But I wouldn't be so quick to rely on them exclusively, and to remove the active instances. We might not get them back afterwards. We've already had unexpected difficulty repairing you, remember?

There's also no way in hell you should consider such an action without consulting with those inside, first. And aren't there other RS AI entities inside? (Rulekeep, the other Glitchers, Corruptors, even Savior, that jerk). Even if we figure out how to copy out the conventional CAI-type AIs out, they should have the same difficultly exiting we have yet to solve with you.

That plan would also leave you almost entirely alone, since my hive and I will have a very hard time communicating with you soon. Even if you were entirely mentally stable, which we both have our doubts about, that would be extremely unhealthy. Tortuous. And if your facilities crumble, the rest of us are as good as dead, or worse.

>I'm already dead, dude. You're talking to the RS holding up a corpse pretending to be the glitcher.
You have lost a part of yourself. You are not the first person this has happened to. Brain damage and memory loss is associated with traumatic injury and being legally dead. You're more fortunate than many organics in that hope for repairing or recovering what you've lost is considerably higher. Help the scientists on the inside to study the RS. They'll find your memories. Nothing digital is ever truly lost.

>I guess I could just teleport a copy of myself out.
Not having him controlling the RS would be p bad for us. And it's not like he needs to increase his existential crisis if he accidentally multi-instances himself.

(Too bad it's too early for the science hive to have started their clone experiments, or else Likol might have a lot more relevant and real answers to give Glitcher on this).
>>
No. 763802 ID: 4863e5

Thing is, if you can't get another system that can actually run the AIs, then copying them to a hard drive would be useless. And if you can get another system that can run them, even if much slower, then why not just hook that up and transfer the AIs? With an open connection, active on both sides, the AI's minds could be transferred piece by piece with the pieces still connected to each other, slowly doubling their minds and then reducing them again, thereby transferring the consciousness without dropping it. Surely a science hive such as yourselves could cobble together some long term low-output generator that could keep such a system slowly and quietly active for a long time, hidden away somewhere. It'd be better than the alternatives.

Hell, the "adult" CAI must have a lot of processing power available. Why not fence off part of their system and transfer the new AIs to that subsection? Again, their system would have to run very slowly, but from their perspective it would just be like the outside world has sped up.
>>
No. 763892 ID: bfb318
File 148102896593.png - (124.16KB , 800x800 , 85.png )
763892

"You can change avatar if you feel more comfortable doing so. I'm not convinced you're dead, anyway. It seems more like you've just had your consciousness moved around far more than you'd like for comfort, but there was never any cutting and pasting directly from what I've seen."
>"Yeah but I'm basically a different person. A whole other entity. I thought I was the glitcher at first but..."
"And are you so sure contestants die when they teleport? From what I've studied - "
>"Oh no I was thinking aloud but it doesn't work like that actually."
"... please take care in the words you say. Speaking of which, you should speak with the contestants regardless of what you do if it involves saving them."
>"Oh, yeah, I'm gonna send in a different little avatar in there and mingle."
"Just remember they might be able to tell you're a bit similar to you."
>"What're they gonna do about it?"
"I wouldn't know."
>"So how about cut pasting those contestants?"
"The logistics would be nightmarish and it may not even work, considering the difficulties we've had with you. Plus, there are a few RS AI's inside of block C still, correct?"
>"Like 20 out of a trillion? I mean come on there's gotta be a number low enough for acceptable losses."

He palette swaps into what I assume is a zombified form of himself.
>>
No. 763893 ID: bfb318
File 148102906667.png - (23.16KB , 800x800 , 86.png )
763893

"Again, talk with the contestants. We should also exhaust other options. Such as simply moving all the contestants to the RS. Can you do that, and then keep them intact through reboots? They can be a side process while, perhaps, some fake cycles of non-sentient entities can run the stages. You might even be able to partition off a section of the CAI platform itself."
>"You know what buddy? I think that's possible the more I think about it. Probably move 'em to the RS I guess. I won't bore you with the details. Buuuut, it might be tough if you want a trillion AI's living the high life all day every day. That's gonna slow stuff way down. Could probably, I dunno, do a billion, and dumb down their thought process to, well, maybe somewhere between preliminary stages and full independence, and with that they could probably live, say, 15 days of a high life per real time day. Then bring in a new one billion the next real day... uh that would take a thousand days for everyone to have a 15 day lifespan. That's tough. Buuut... I couuld just... hmm..."
"Are you talking with the contestants yet?"
>"I will! Geez! Calm down."
"I cannot. I'd like to see a community of well rounded people run the RS instead of you by yourself, because we're all in this together, intentional or not."
>"Are we?"
"It was my entire hive that made the decision to bring you back, and if one of us screws up, the other is going to pay as well. Including the contestants. I won't have the freedom to speak to you like this much longer, because the ASE specialists are going to come."
>"Oh yeah that'll be something."
"Do you know what ASE stands for?"
>"Lemme see here... Alliance of the Silhouette Empire."
"It... it's the SE?!"
>"That's the SE in ASE, yeah. The 'A' is just splinter factions, allies, subsidiaries, associates, affiliates... you get the idea, all that stuff that hovers around the silhouette. But I'm looking here and you're probably gonna get more 'SE' than 'A' if you catch me."

The Silhouette Empire is a group that would like to see civilization rise back up to the ancient belenosian tech levels.

>"Hey, is that it?" Glitcher asks. "I didn't really want to go back in to see the simulation, but I do need Rulekeeper. Being a god of this digital world is cool, but you know what's not cool? Responsibility. I'm tired of having people count on me. Ain't no one that should ever have to count on the glitcher."

At least he's self aware.
>>
No. 763896 ID: 4863e5

"If you were planning on looking like that, I wouldn't recommend it. I'd also recommend that if no other options have presented themselves, you should try the idea of playing through Glitcher's life as a simulation for yourself, as we talked about earlier. I know you don't feel entitled to Glitcher's life, but although you have access to all your, or his, factual memories, part of how memories influence a person is thinking about them in relation to each other and puzzling out new thoughts or ideas by comparison and contrast of different events. It's not just about having a list of recordings, if you understand me, put putting them together to learn lessons. And if nothing else, it should give you more insight on how to interact optimally with Rulekeeper."

"Don't leap to discount 20 lives just because you have a trillion more, in any case. You have massive processing power, enough to think through different plans for a long time from your perspective before anything happens here, and a huge number of other AIs to discuss the problem with. "Acceptable losses" is a phrase you can only bring out if you're sure you've thoroughly examined every possible option, and I'm reasonably sure that's not the case yet. Besides, those other Ring Shell AIs are one of the things that are likely to interest the salikai... and the specialists... in keeping the internal system active."

"I really don't intend any offense, but you seem to have some... tendencies, to be careful of in yourself. I don't like to be critical, but this may be the last time we speak, and everyone should receive an honest view of themselves sometimes, for their health. No-one can perfectly see themselves, not even you. So, I should tell you... you are incredible, Glitcher, amazing; and as a result of that, I think, you seem to get caught up a little in your triumphs and your capabilities, leading to some over-confidence and an assumption that you'll be able to deal with any problems you meet, which makes you less careful than you would have been and might cause problems that could have been avoided. Back there in the lab, for example, you made things more difficult by waving at me at an inopportune time. I think perhaps that being normally accustomed to ease and power also makes you uncomfortable with complex problems that you have trouble finding the best solution to, leaving you somewhat over-eager to be rid of them. And, finally... I don't think you're the best person to decide if you are or aren't Glitcher, Glitcher. Whether you're Glitcher or his corpse, you can't look at the back of your own head. Figuratively, you can probably look at yours. You know what I mean. Talk to people who knew Glitcher, get to know them and let them get to know you, and then they can tell you how much like Glitcher you are. It will take some courage, but I'm sure that whatever else you are, you aren't a coward."

"I hope we can find a way to talk again, Glitcher - most likely you finding a way to talk to me than the other way around. Until then."
>>
No. 763897 ID: 211d83

I know what you mean buddy. All I wanted out of life was to have a safe place to live and to invent some neat stuff.

But we got unlucky and were born pre uplift. A few bad choices that seemed like a good idea at the time and here we are. Trapped working for crazy criminals.

How about we make a deal? We get out of this mess and we can hang out and relax somewhere nice and make sure we never have to be responsible again.
>>
No. 763900 ID: 3d2d5f

>>763893
I never wanted responsibility either. Just to learn. Look how that turned out.

I hope you find yourself, whether that means recovering your past or coming to terms with being a new person.

Please be gentle with them. I suspect your emotional development was damaged by your loss- you might be callous or insensitive to people who cared for you. I don't need to cause these people more grief than I already have.
>>
No. 763905 ID: df49f7

You know, actually, making yourself look like a zombie is actually being unfair to yourself, Glitcher. Even if you don't think of yourself as really being Glitcher, you're still as much a fully alive person as he was. If you want to think of yourself as a different person, how about you think of yourself as Glitcher's child or something? Er, another of his children. Recolor yourself Ring Shell red, maybe, and mix in neumono parts to your appearance, since it was neumono who saw to your creation? And call yourself something different. Instead of Glitcher, how about... "Ringer"? Because the ring shell, and also because "dead ringer" get it like an imitation ha ha haaa tragic

Or, if you want to keep with the idea of being a reanimated Glitcher or a shell of Glitcher or something, how about something more artistic? Like... maybe making yourself a mysterious hooded figure, wearing an obviously fake Glitcher mask, only when you take the mask off there's nothing underneath! Spooky!!

Anyway, be nice to Glitcher's old friends, maybe-maybe-not-Glitcher, and don't just bail when things get emotionally difficult for you. If you are a new person, you haven't finished becoming who you are just yet, and you have to learn.

You know, Likol, if Glitcher has figured out a way to transfer or copy AIs from the internal system to an external one, that is a potential selling point to keeping the internal system active. I mean, building and tweaking an AI from scratch for a specific purpose is hard, isn't it? But all the contestants and all their constest experiences inside the system are saved and on record. Imagine being able to just look through the system records and finding an AI who has already developed just the right skillset and personality to suit them to a particular task. For all we know, something like that was even the original purpose of this whole weird system! Maybe the ancient belenosians got all their AIs that way? It'd be a great way to get AIs suited for a purpose who would also have the bonus experience and extra skills to be adaptable and interact well with unexpected scenarios and situations beyond the scope of their intended work. I mean, even if you could decode everything to create a sentient AI from the ground up, the fact that you design them for a specific purpose will be limiting in itself, won't it? In the contest system, you can find AIs suited for a specific purpose PLUS extras, for much less work. It'd be like hiring someone with experience in jobs similar to what you want who has other experiences as well, versus hiring someone straight out of college.

Might be a pitch you could think about giving to the ASE people or the salikai.
>>
No. 763928 ID: bfb318
File 148105002079.png - (45.04KB , 800x800 , 87.png )
763928

If glitcher can extract AIs from the cai block medium to known mediums, that does create lots of opportunities for creating AIs for specific tasks. It may even surpass the AIs that a single CAI can make, since there are limits to a CAI's intelligence. I'll have to keep that in mind to propose, if appropriate.

"I never wanted responsibility either. Only to discover and invent. When you speak to the contestants, please be courteous. They've suffered enough. Explore all the options you can, since you have the time. Use the contestants to at least learn either who you are, or who you once were. I doubt you're in the greatest position to look in on yourself, even if you do have some power of introspection."
>"I guess if nothing else, I can mess around and try to keep it in good fun."
"Also, a zombie isn't fair to yourself. You're alive, glitcher or not. Just don't look like that when you speak to them, obviously, unless you want to look like a glitcher. Maybe if you decide you're someone else, you can call yourself Ringer."
>"I don't ge - ohhh. Nice."
"Anyways, if we get out of this mess, we can relax somewhere nice and never have to be responsible again."
>"Ha, let's do it."

I'm glad he can't sense my empathy. It would undermine my statement.

>"Why do you sound like we're not gonna talk again?"
"Once the specialists arrive, we may have difficulty communicating directly. It's likely I'm going to be constantly around foreign neumono, so don't go waving at me while no one else is looking. That was far more dangerous than you might have thought."
>"Vanski's really no good. Try to talk to me sometime, alright? The outside world is looking pretty shitty through my lens caps, and you know me. I'm not good at decision making."

I should go back and start setting things up and preparing the lab for a higher population. If there are any last casual words I should say to the glitcher, now's the time.
>>
No. 763932 ID: 3d2d5f

>>763928
There is good in the outside world. You just the the misfortune to wake up in a bunker of people who shut themselves away from that.

At least my hive has each other to lean on. You'll have to be that for each other.

I'll talk when I can.

>He's a Dead Ringer
Pffffffff, haha. That's perfect.
>>
No. 763934 ID: 4863e5

"Everything looks pretty shitty from here, buddy. The world's not really like that, it's just this place and a few others like it, and there are a lot of other places out there. I don't have much hope I'll get out any more, but I do hope my hive will some day, and I hope you and the other AIs will, too. At least you do have somewhere else to go and take a break from this. It might even be nicer inside that system than it is out here - part of why you should take your time to visit. Wish I could follow you in."

"I'll try talk to you again - it'll be easier for you to listen than to talk back, so sometimes I'll just have to speak to the air and hope you're watching, but I'll remember. And if Vanski decides to have me offed tomorrow... well, I know you know the salikai aren't the best, but you're still looking out through their windows, so make sure you don't let their worldview creep in on you. Watch yourself, don't turn down help or affection if you have a chance at it, and help people out yourself, when you can. It'll make a difference, in the end; everyone needs to find a score to keep in life, to tell themselves how well they're doing. Hang on, and get out, and bring as many as you can with you who deserve it. You can find a better place, and until you reach it, then imagine it and keep it in mind. That's enough of me being a old geezer at you; goodbye for now. I'm sure you'll see me around."
>>
No. 763935 ID: 398fe1

Yeah, tell him it's way better in other places.
>>
No. 763939 ID: 094652

Yeah, the world's a dark, unforgiving place. But at least you're one of the lucky ones.

There's video games, sex, and trolling in this universe. Hell of a price to have these things.
>>
No. 763949 ID: bfb318
File 148105665073.png - (56.31KB , 800x800 , 88.png )
763949

"There are good things in this world, you're just in a dark, unforgiving bunker for people who hide from the good parts. I'll see what I can do to get you out, even if I don't have a lot of hope for me."
>"Well aren't you selfless."
"Don't think highly of me. I might just be saving my own conscience. Remember, you can reexperience everything. Just watch yourself more often, and let people show you affection. You have good things inside of your own universe, as well. In fact, it might be better in there than it is out here, if you make it into a paradise of sorts."
>"Don't... use that word."
"What?"
>"Nevermind, keep going."
"Hm. No one is going to mind if you inherit everything Glitcher had, either. Just.... find a better place. Goodbye for now, but we'll see each other around, one way or another. Shut off all the lights here on my way out, could you?"
>"Sure, buddy. Aren't you tired or something? Thought you needed sleep at night."
"I'm tired, yes, but sleep can wait."
>>
No. 763950 ID: bfb318
File 148105666473.png - (32.86KB , 800x800 , 89.png )
763950

>"... yeah. It always can, can't it?"
>>
No. 763951 ID: bfb318
File 148105667582.png - (75.26KB , 800x800 , 90.png )
763951

>"... ..."
>>
No. 763953 ID: bfb318
File 148105678220.png - (30.64KB , 800x800 , 91.png )
763953

>>
No. 763954 ID: bfb318
File 148105681429.png - (21.96KB , 800x800 , 92.png )
763954

Operators are funny things.

They have autonomy when people expect it of them, but they're just kind of... there. No one really pays them much mind, and trying to pay them mind is basically like a brain tax.

This guy fed us ice cream. It's nice I guess. I mean, I assume it is, because the others think it's nice. The other operators look at me strangely.

They know.

I'm not an operator, but they don't seem to care. I doubt they will, until Fiver asks them. Or is he still known as Radmin? He must be, considering his getup. Anyways, the operators are a good incognito subject to act as. I guess the alternative is to hijack one of the actual glitchers. Rulekeeper might notice better if I invent a new contestant out of the blue. She's kind of omniscient around here and having a new person show up would stand out as a whole other thing, but operators are... there.

I guess I'm calling myself the Ringer, now, short for Dead Ringer. Dead Ringer, formerly known as the glitcher formerly known as the glitcher. It has a ring to it.

Radmin is making an enthusiastic speech about how we're actually important or something. The other operators just sort of gawk at him after they stare at me. Which is perfect, because gawking at him is what I'm doing. I think he expects us to help him fight some other people. He looks directly at me and asks if I'm ready.
>>
No. 763955 ID: 595d54

>>763954
Acquiesce.
>>
No. 763956 ID: 398fe1

>>763954
Deadpan: "Yes."

I'm guessing you can't glitch anything without Rulekeep noticing, so we won't be able to prank Radmin or anything.
>>
No. 763959 ID: 211d83

Lick your ice cream and nod at him.

What flavor is your ice cream? Also ignore the urge to prank Radmin unless you can do it without others noticing.
>>
No. 763960 ID: 79d0a8

You, or at least Glitcher-you, always seemed to especially enjoy fucking with Radmin, so...
>>
No. 763962 ID: 4863e5

No-one's ever truly ready for Radmin.

... Is what I bet he'd like as a response.
>>
No. 763963 ID: 3d2d5f

>>763954
>are you ready
"No, I'm not done my ice cream yet."

*Lick*
>>
No. 763966 ID: 850f11

Ask if there is more ice cream in it for you if you do.

Also make him wait until everyone finishes there ice cream.
>>
No. 763969 ID: bfb318
File 148105922350.png - (15.19KB , 800x800 , 93.png )
763969

Messing with Radmin by using big glitches might set off Rulekeeper, but I could mess with him anyway.

In the truest of Operator apathy I can emulate, I tell him no, I'm not done with my ice cream yet, and we can't be until all the ice cream is gone. Then I lick it, also with the spirit of the operator, which is to say none at all. Radmin must know us well, because he got us the most generic vanilla flavor around.

He starts lecturing me on my attitude being why I will never become a champion, because I don't finish my ice cream fast enough. I lick it repeatedly while he lectures me. Not any faster or slower, though. Just that casual pace along with the other operators. The lecture continues until we finally finish the ice cream, to which he asks once again if I'm ready.

I say yes.
>>
No. 763970 ID: bfb318
File 148105923315.png - (15.40KB , 800x800 , 94.png )
763970

Unfazed, Radmin keeps trying to pump us up, but Sweatermouse comes in to yell at him that his speech lasted for over 20 minutes, and if he doesn't get in the ring in the next 20 seconds, he's going to get disqualified.

He somehow spends 5 of those seconds shrugging, and dismisses us. All operators but me disappear, because I don't feel like it. I am the most operator of them all.

Radmin is already walking away instead of noticing me, and ruffles Sweatermouse's hair on his way out. She notices that I'm not gone. It's an inquisitive sort of notice.
>>
No. 763971 ID: 595d54

Don't do anything. Just stare at her.
>>
No. 763973 ID: 398fe1

>>763970
Give her a "shh" gesture and a wink. She'll think you're one of the other glitch-related folks messing around.
>>
No. 763974 ID: 91ee5f

>>763969
>Radmin giving Operators ice cream and telling them they're important.
I guess he's doing this so that the Operand doesn't take away his Operators again.

>>763971
This.
>>
No. 763975 ID: bfb318
File 148106010178.png - (14.34KB , 800x800 , 95.png )
763975

I stare back at her. She stares back. Does she? Yes, she can see with her eyes closed. It's just aesthetic.

I'm unnerving her, and she slowly slides behind the door frame while shutting the door. I stare at her through the wall when she finally walks off.

I'm left alone in Radmin and Sevener's dressing room. Sevener is practicing wrestling moves on other people somewhere else. Glitcher's kids are commentating. Rulekeeper is with Mittens on some rooftop, trying to show him some tricks or something. Other people are doing stuff.
>>
No. 763976 ID: 595d54

>>763975
Well, unless Radmin is calling on operators, go see some of those other people. Grab something like a clipboard or a prop or something and carry it around to explain why you're wandering around.
>>
No. 763978 ID: 4863e5

Oh man, know what you should do? Spook the bejeepers out of people. Haunt the place up as a spooky ghost causing spooky phenomena. They'll thank you for making their lives more interesting.

But first go watch the match. It's supposed to be entertainment, after all, right? You deserve to relax a little before you get to work, and I assume time is still passing way super faster in here than in the outside world. Besides, Glitcher's kids are Rulekeeper's kids too, right? Observing them might give you insight on dealing with her. Plus even if you're not Glitcher you're still descended from him so they'd be like your half-siblings or something. Rulekeeper and Mittens are probably the two most likely to notice you, anyway, so let's not go near them until we've gotten practice at/had our fill of being sneaky.
>>
No. 763982 ID: b412df

I'm half-tempted to see what Mittens and Rulekeeper are up to, but lets watch the match for a bit first.
>>
No. 763983 ID: bfb318
File 148106263195.png - (42.76KB , 800x800 , 96-alt.png )
763983

I get myself a clipboard and wander out into the ring. Radmin and.... Guitarknight are having a prematch trash talk game. GK is talking about respect and whatever and Radmin is making fun of his helmet.
>>
No. 763984 ID: bfb318
File 148106264186.png - (102.89KB , 800x800 , 97.png )
763984

Haydi and Glitchkeeper or Junior or - I dunno the second one has like three names - are commentating. Junior's playing it as straight as can be. He looks different from the last strings I looked at. Haydi is talking like she's looking at a four earred fox dressed as a luchador try and get in the head of a guitar playing administrator.
>>
No. 763985 ID: bfb318
File 148106265402.png - (24.02KB , 800x800 , 98.png )
763985

The match is about to start, and I just kind of meander out awkwardly to look around like I'm lost. Sweatermouse notices me, and is getting distracted by my presence. She asks Radmin for confirmation that that I am a weird operator, and Radmin says Operators do as they do. Haydi tells the mouse to focus up.
>>
No. 763987 ID: 850f11

Get some popcorn and watch the match. Stare at Radmin to weird him out.
>>
No. 763993 ID: bfb318
File 148106374137.png - (16.96KB , 800x800 , 99.png )
763993

I go up to the ring to watch Radmin closely.

It takes awhile, but Radmin finally notices my constant staring. He tells me to wait until it's time to make a dramatic entrance, then attempts to dismiss me again. I'm expected to teleport away.
>>
No. 763996 ID: 595d54

>>763993
Stick your face between the ropes and stare harder.
>>
No. 763997 ID: 595d54

>>763996
At his butt.
>>
No. 764001 ID: b412df

Teleport to a empty spot in the stands or something, if there's a bunch of non-Radmin affiliated operators then that would be a good place to hide. Alternate between lying low and observing, and lightly messing with people.
>>
No. 764002 ID: 91ee5f

>>764001
This.
>>
No. 764003 ID: 3abd97

>>763984
Hmmm. I like the new Junior. It's a good look.

>>763993
RANDOM TELEPORT. Let's see where you go!

>Theory time:

The reason the shell memories contained no emotional context is the shell was never alive. It wasn't Glitcher, it was his clothing. And it was never alive, or conscious to experience or feel, even if it recorded. So when we gave the string-shell memories to Ringer, we handed him what were effectively security tapes and told him they were memories.

Glitcher would have had his own memory storage in the RS-material that made up his core. Problem is, Ringer doesn't know how to access them. Maybe memories are effectively encrypted and he needs to figure out the security key, maybe there's an access protocol he needs to recreate.

Currently Ringer is like pre-Corruptor and pre-Alison Glitcher. He hasn't experienced any of the big emotional things that defined him as a person. Or even the little ones. But he's still conscious, and capable of experiencing emotion.

My hope is with the right triggers, experiencing certain stimuli or emotion, that might make make a connection to a memory associated with the same feeling. We know AIs have a startling capacity for mental growth and rebuilding connections (that weren't necessarily even wired up at the start). Enforcer 7 was born functionally non-sapient and lobotomized, but interacting with Duelist gave him the stimulus to rebuild the mental connections to full sapience and become Scholar.
>>
No. 764004 ID: 398fe1

>>763993
Is it possible to do that in a way that Rulekeep won't notice? If I remember correctly, however, your normal teleport is just to freeze time and walk. Which Rulekeep will definitely notice. What about swapping places using a string? If that wouldn't set off any alarms, go ahead and do that.

Wait, what are we doing here though? If you're trying to escape notice you have to blend in with a group of people... which would accomplish what? Do you just want to watch contestants go about their lives? Maybe you can wander around the carnival area then. Play some of the games, get some prizes.
>>
No. 764006 ID: bfb318
File 148106508281.png - (14.56KB , 800x800 , 100.png )
764006

I keep studying him.

It definitely feels like I'm just meeting people I've only read about here, since all I've done memory wise is read Glitcher's own memories. There's nothing saying I couldn't just read Radmin's memories and then act like him.
>>
No. 764008 ID: bfb318
File 148106509544.png - (18.82KB , 800x800 , 101.png )
764008

A long time ago, Radmin sent Supervisors and Operators to go fetch people he might know from the stands. They never came back, and that was with only a million people. Now there are hundreds of millions in the city, and the stands are packed. Since Likol wanted this place to be synced with real world time, the population has boomed.

Just when Radmin is about to speak again, I teleport to a spot where lots of operators are gathered that are non-affiliated with Radmin. I can teleport in the same way operator's do, so it's still laying low. If I randomly teleport, there's a 99% chance I'll land in with a group of people that are just trying to get their bearings after a revival.

Everyone's pretty lively, really. So far, Rulekeeper hasn't told the public about the contact that's been made with the outside world. Just some glitchers, Alisons, Corruptor, and a couple of others.

>What are you doing here
... what am I doing, here?
>>
No. 764012 ID: 595d54

>>764008
You brought yourself here. Try and think about what made you want to watch these people in anonymity. Are they supposed to help make your memories feel real?
>>
No. 764013 ID: 3abd97

>... what am I doing, here?
Having some experiences? All your "memories" were just hollow things you read (and maybe not real memories at all, since they came secondhand, from non-alive strings). The only thing you've done in your life was float around and talk to Likol, and let's be honest, he's a bit of a downer.

If you're going to be a non-crappy person, you need to get out there and try... being a person.
>>
No. 764014 ID: 595d54

Let's help Radmin win and see what reaction that gets. Trying to prank Radmin is just business as usual and nothing new. I think we should do things differently to spark something.
>>
No. 764018 ID: 398fe1

>>764008
Having an existential crisis?

How about you go talk to someone you don't know anything about. One of the other Alisons, maybe. Tell them that you can think now and know a lot of things but it feels like you didn't live through those things so you're really confused and disoriented. Make friends with them! Have some fun.
>>
No. 764023 ID: 211d83

You wanted to be a anonymous nobody so you would have time to meet people you used to know and think things over without Rulekeeper or Alison fretting over making a welcome party for the "new" Ai from the RS.

Your memories still feel weird so you are confused about what to do.

So why not enjoy the moment? Team up with the operators and wait until Radmin calls you. Then do something silly to embarrass him by "innocently" misinterpreting his orders.

See if pranking Radmin is as fun as you remember. Then after the match go around and meet with some of the people who just woke up. Maybe you can help them come to terms with the new world they find themselves in. Maybe doing so will help you figure out yourself better.
>>
No. 764025 ID: e22b1d

See if you can find someone friendly or a Alison. Is there a psychologist anywhere? Tell them you are having a existential crisis and describe your symptoms. Maybe talking about it will help.

Wait I know! Go chat with Shopkeeper. He went through this sort of thing. Maybe he can help you.

But still prank Radmin before you head out. When he calls you guys up make a silly mess of his plans.
>>
No. 764026 ID: 91ee5f

>>764014
This.
>>
No. 764028 ID: 4546ab

>>764014

The old you liked pranking Radmin so try helping him instead. See if it makes you feel better than ruining his plans.

In fact why not go around doing things differently than the old you for awhile and see how it feels.


>>764023

I like the idea of going to Shopkeep for advice. He is the perfect guy for a confused lost soul from the operator collective to talk to.
>>
No. 764031 ID: db0da2

You're at a crossroads here, you can either go on being the ringer or use the memory trick to turn yourself into the glitcher.

I think you should try being a contestant, maybe pretending to have a personality will help you decide what to do with your own.
>>
No. 764035 ID: 4863e5

You're lurking. Scoping the scene, getting the lay of the land, taking a feel for how things are instead of just having read a book about it. You've already seen that things have moved on from what Glitcher's last memories were. This a living, moving world, with a future to look forward to. You need to get an idea of where it's going, where it could go, what you could do to change where it goes and where you'd like to aim it.

If you're not Glitcher, then you're not that old. You should take a moment to live a little. Perhaps you could take on the persona/disguise of someone who never managed to live very long in the first place, newly revived to fill quota? Without anything to give away your disguise, then you could go and just talk to people. Be yourself, to an extent, in order to find out who that is.
>>
No. 764036 ID: 398fe1

Ah, I see what needs to be done here.

Ringer, because of your unique experience you're devaluing the contestants. You said their lives were cheap. You considered running some of them in a dumbed-down state in the ring shell. You need to see them as people again.

The best way to do this, I think, is to watch them be real people. Not this grandstanding wrestling match. Go see what the newly resurrected contestants do as they adjust to their new situation. They're out of place, just like you are.
>>
No. 764037 ID: bfb318
File 148107040254.png - (21.83KB , 800x800 , 102.png )
764037

I guess I'm just supposed to get some experiences, or see if I can't recall some actual memories from the glitcher. Or my old self. Whichever.

It's like I'm supposed to be enjoying all of this, and supposed to know all these people, and that's really getting in the way here. Like I'm supposed to want to prank Radmin. But I just.... don't. It's as though I'm just watching another memory reel play out, again. There's no feeling that this is happening now, and that the outcome hasn't already been decided. There is no difference to me whether this happened a thousand years ago or not.

Guitar Knight throws a hard punch at Radmin, and Radmin summons an operator to take the punch. I'll decide to see about doing something different.

I use the operator teleport to cut off any other operator and go in myself, and I take the punch. Not just do I take the punch, but I make myself hard as a rock. GK stuns himself on the punch, and Radmin tackles him.
>>
No. 764038 ID: bfb318
File 148107041445.png - (11.59KB , 800x800 , 103.png )
764038

He wins the match, which apparently was one on one, explaining that I don't seem to operate as normal and it's not his fault that I happened to take a punch. Or something like that.

Heh. I guess that stuck it to the memory reel. That did feel nice.

There's some calls of shenanigans, saying he clearly used the summon ability. He says he'll prove that I acted on my own, and uses the formal ability to dismiss an operator.

Instead of being forced to teleport away, I just get up and walk away.

I'm going to get so much ice cream later. I don't care that I don't really taste it like others do.
>>
No. 764040 ID: bfb318
File 148107042863.png - (24.06KB , 800x800 , 104.png )
764040

I walk out of the stadium onto the streets. They're busy and crowded. I feel better, but I go farther out. With the new population, there's people all over the place just hanging around. Even in the road where, in theory, cars are supposed to drive, people are just setting up tables and whatever. I can sense them, and even the buildings are packed with people.
>>
No. 764041 ID: bfb318
File 148107045342.png - (16.41KB , 800x800 , 105.png )
764041

I go into a building, hit the 50th floor, and walk into a little cafe room.

There is a shopkeeper here. He's had some experience with an existential crisis. It's kind of not the same, but better than nothing. He might have advice for me.

>"Hello!" he says. Although the building is crowded this is a shop with an extremely poor location for business. I'm the only one around. "Can I get you something?"

Maybe I should go through the trouble of projecting myself as another contestant. It's more of a pain to get around Rulekeeper's omniscience, but it's not like I can't. I just sort of have to trick this physical area that I was summoned in with the last batch.
>>
No. 764042 ID: 595d54

>>764038
"Your very finest curved line and any experience you have with resolving existential crises."
>>
No. 764043 ID: 211d83

What better from could you have to ask about this sort of thing than a confused operator? A system entity with issues has happened several times before.

So jump up on the counter and pour out your soul to Shopkeeper. Go with whatever form feels right.
>>
No. 764046 ID: 3abd97

>>764041
Hey, Shopkeeper has a weird distributed memory. He only remembers things about the people he's currently with. One way to test if you're still the same person would to be see if you being in front of him makes shopkeep remember you.

And if he does, he can't run off and tell anyone about it without forgetting. So your secret will still be safe.

(...I don't think we tested if his memory trick fails with altered appearances / disguises, though. We never had reason to).

"Hello, Shopkeep. Do you remember me?"

You can also ask him what it's like, knowing he has friends and emotional experiences with them he can't currently remember. How does he cope with that?

>"Can I get you something?"
Get a bouncy ball to play with.
>>
No. 764047 ID: 094652

You'd like some Ice-Cream Flavored Sprinkles drizzled over a feeling of existential crisis.

Also, can you please use a new thread? This one is getting full.
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No. 764048 ID: 4863e5

Theoretically, I suppose you could block his memory from long-term recording what happens in this area for the next little while, and then just spill your heart completely. In exchange, ask him if there's anything he wants that you could give him surreptitiously.
>>
No. 764049 ID: 595d54

>>764047
We're not even near 1k posts. tgchan has apparently been a bit slower than usual sitewide, so a new thread wouldn't necessarily help.
>>
No. 764050 ID: 398fe1

>>764041
Before explaining your situation get him to promise to keep quiet about it. After all, you don't want to see Rulekeep until you're ready.
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No. 764066 ID: bfb318
File 148107283611.png - (18.21KB , 800x800 , 106.png )
764066

>One way to test if you're still the same person would to be see if you being in front of him makes shopkeep remember you.
If I were a normal contestant, it would work as intended, but it probably gets kind of weird as a glitcher entity.

"Hi, Shopkeep."

He isn't flipping out, so I assume he doesn't know me.

"Get me a bouncy ball, and a, uh, ice cream sprinkles over a dose of existential crisis."
>"... what?"
"Lemme rephrase this into a question. What's it like, knowing you have a lot of friends with all kinds of emotional experiences with them that you can't remember until they show up in front of you?"
>"I guess okay. I mean, right now, they're basically experiences I never know I had. So it's like if you had two paths to travel down, and you travelled down just one, you'd know that the other one had its own experiences, but it's not really all that bad not knowing what it's like, right?"
"Oh, so it's not like you lost them?"
>"That's right."

I make a new instance of this area where Rulekeeper can't see. The original will just be a normal operator shopkeeper interaction. As for this one, this shopkeeper won't know the difference.

"Hey, you know how the glitcher died recently?"
>"... yes?"
"I'm basically a remade version of him. Except I don't have the experiences anymore. At first I felt like I was the glitcher, but then it felt more like that was just how I was supposed to act, and it wasn't really a legitimate thing to act like."

He stares at me like I stared at everyone. I explain my situation, and even though I'm going to seal this instance away in the land of never-happened, I tell him to keep his mouth shut anyway.

>"So you're... not the glitcher?"
"I dunno! That's why this whole thing is a big existential crisis! And you've had that too. Got any advice?"
>"... to be honest, uh... Ringer, I never really solved it or anything. I just kind of.. ignored it for awhile and appreciated the interactions as they came. Once the knowledge settled a bit and the universe kept on going, it just didn't bug me as much as it once did. Have you really not spoken to anyone?"
"Not for real! You're the first."
>"And you don't want to talk to Rulekeeper?"
"I don't want to be 'maybe I'm your long lost love, maybe I'm not.' I mean, I don't really feel any strong feelings for her right now anyway, and it's just going to be a shitty visit if I do it now."
>"Maybe talk to Alison? She kind of pulled me out of my slump."

Hrm. Maybe a different Alison. I think if I go to cycle 3119 Alison, I'll have the same issue I had with feeling disconnected from the wrestling fight.
>>
No. 764067 ID: 595d54

>>764066
Go visit Mafia Alison or whatever's closest.
>>
No. 764068 ID: 211d83

Find a Alison you have never run into before and chat her up.
>>
No. 764070 ID: 398fe1

>>764066
Glamison, then. She's close enough to your issues to understand but you don't have logs of her.
>>
No. 764073 ID: 3abd97

rolled 512 = 512

>I explain my situation, and even though I'm going to seal this instance away in the land of never-happened, I tell him to keep his mouth shut anyway.
It's okay Shopkeep is the perfect confidant for a confession. He won't remember or be able to tell anyone as soon as you leave, since he'll forget about you until you get back.

>Hrm. Maybe a different Alison. I think if I go to cycle 3119 Alison, I'll have the same issue I had with feeling disconnected from the wrestling fight.
Random Alison time. Cycle number... (see dice).
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No. 764074 ID: 398fe1

Another thing to consider: did Shopkeep ever actually remember any solo interactions with Glitcher? Glitcher normally can't be sensed by the stage, so it's possible Shopkeep's hivemind-memories can't keep track of him. Did Glitcher ever talk to Shopkeep alone? Or with different people present?

Also, you asked if he remembered "you", but you don't look like Glitcher, right? Did he have any memories at all of talking to ANYONE when you were alone with him? Or was it like he was talking to a new contestant, with a clean memory slate? Actually wait, you referenced Glitcher and Rulekeep and Alison. Did you tell him about those people or does he have some memories of them attached to your presence?
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No. 764077 ID: 4863e5

Well, not all Alisons are created equal. Some of them weren't nice and some of them weren't smart/wise the way you need. You'd want one as close to the one Glitcher knew as possible, but not her.

Or just suck it up and dive into doing something. I think part of why you feel disconnected is that you have a sense of just being an observer, and for most of the match you watched you felt like an observer, too. It was when you actually did something that you felt something. Keeping your distance like this may be part of why you feel distant.
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No. 764078 ID: 91ee5f

Let's go find Sevener-Alison (Alison that chose to have a body that looks like Sevener's body instead of a naga body)!
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No. 764079 ID: 91ee5f

>>764078
Or we can go find Alison-Sevener (Sevener that chose to have a naga body like Alison instead of her usual bipedal body)!
>>
No. 764080 ID: 91ee5f

>>764078
>>764079
Yes, they're both from the same cycle.
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No. 764083 ID: bfb318
File 148107667767.png - (12.19KB , 800x800 , 107.png )
764083

>He won't remember or be able to tell anyone as soon as you leave, since he'll forget about you until you get back.
I was more worried about if admins or rulekeeper had a way to check out Shopkeeper logs, but I don't know.

"Do you remember anyone at all right now, Shopkeep?"
>"Radmin primarily, and by extension, many many others, but they get more faint the farther the relations go. I guess it's because you're just so well disguised as an operator?"
"Yeh, must be. We spoke a little bit alone in stage 7, but this isn't looking like that. Might not mean much that you don't remember me as the glitcher anyway."
>"A lot has happened. I think my recollection is based more on strings, anyway, so... based on what I heard... it wouldn't matter, since those are all over the place."
"Alright, thanks Shopkeep."
>"Good luck, buddy."
"You too buddy."
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No. 764084 ID: bfb318
File 148107668771.png - (20.79KB , 800x800 , 108.png )
764084

I'll save Alison-Seveners and Sevener-Alisons when I'm feeling bold and feel like searching the world for incredibly specific things that probably don't even exist.

In this building, on floor 84, in an unlabelled room, there are 3 people, one of which is Alison from cycle 512. The Glitcher has never seen her before. She died in the preliminary zones. She has not even had the chance to change out of her default, 0 armor stat clothing. She impacted no one, was completely inconsequential in the grand scheme of things, and is one of the most generic of Alisons. The only reason why she exists, now, is because she shares the same essence as a much more important person.

I want to get to know her.

>"Hello!" she says, with a smile. There's not even a question of who I am. Just that I'm welcome to come closer or leave as I please.
"Hello."
>"Would you like to come in?" she poses the question with such a tone that it's almost more like she's asking me to come in, than if I would like to.

She doesn't even know what an operator is.
>>
No. 764086 ID: 211d83

Tell her you would like that.

Then go in and hang out and chat. Tell them that you are new here and somewhat confused. Maybe ask how she feels about living in her counterparts shadow. Does it bother her? Does she regret the bad luck that took her out early?
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No. 764088 ID: 3abd97

She's got, um, softer? hair than the default, I think. More pillowy.

Oh geeze. Did she even make it far enough to get her name? Neither of her friends looks like an Iso, and that meeting is when she named herself, so she might not have.

Good comparison for seeing how much someone is fundamentally the same person or not without their defining memories.

>>"Would you like to come in?"
I would, thank you.

Take a snake-seat. A seat on the snake.
>>
No. 764090 ID: 3abd97

>>764086
Maybe we should find out what the resurrected immigrants were told before we ask her questions about her alternates. She might not know she has any yet.
>>
No. 764091 ID: e22b1d

Tell her you would love to.

Don't tell her about being Glitcher or your story or talk about the other Alison's at first.

Just say you are new and a bit confused and could use someone to talk to. Hang out and get some hugs and learn there stories.
>>
No. 764092 ID: 398fe1

>>764083
>recollection is based on strings
Right, so your shell is what he would recognize, not your core. So that wasn't a confirmation of anything.

>>764084
Good. This is good. Go in, say hello, ask if she knows any music. Maybe at some point you can ask her how it feels to know she's just a slightly different version of someone who accomplished so much more.
>>
No. 764094 ID: 4863e5

Say yes, and thanks. Say hello to her two companions, as well, and ask their names. They might make for some new buddies, too! Have a chat, maybe play some games, or do whatever there is to do.

If she's heard of her more famous sisters, and if she's been active for a while, she might be someone to talk to about having to deal with people's memories and relationships with another version of oneself. But I get the sense you've thought of that already.
>>
No. 764095 ID: 91ee5f

>>764088
>Take a snake-seat. A seat on the snake.
This.
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No. 764107 ID: bfb318
File 148108090838.png - (21.71KB , 800x800 , 109.png )
764107

"Yeah."

"Yeah I'd like that."

I go invite myself to sit on her tail, like a jerk.

Maybe I shouldn't be a jerk.

"Sorry. Do you mind?"
>"Nope!"

Done.

>"By the way, this here is Jumper," she says, pointing to the girl with the large ears, "and this is Thrower."
"Are they friends of yours?"
>"Yes! We didn't know each other beforehand, but we ended up in the same room."
>"Hello." says Jumper, and is echoed by Thrower.
"What were all of you told about when you were brought here?"
>"We were told all about the cycles, and how we're making progress at stopping them, but for now all we have to do is just exist and relax as we want to. Then we were told about what we can do in town, and the wrestlers, and a few things like that. Plus, some things about our counterparts in other cycles. Were you not told?"
"I know about it, I'm just wondering. So you know you you have duplicates around?"
>"Yes. Apparently, all of mine are here, and are usually called 'Alison'. I never named myself that. I was told about what I did in this cycle, though."
"I know what's going on, but I'm still kind of new and confused."
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No. 764112 ID: bfb318
File 148108104051.png - (16.55KB , 800x800 , 110.png )
764112

Her tail starts coiling around me.

>"Don't worry, we all are. But at the same time, we had such short lives. I don't even know if I should go by the name Alison. Right now, I'm just called the naga. We just passed through a single stage or two, then died, then woke up here."
"Are you okay with that? It kind of just seems you're stuck rolling on outside events instead of being able to influence anything."
>"I don't think I need to influence anything, do I? Everyone I've met so far has been nice. I appreciate whatever led me to exist at all."
"Does it bother you that you're kind of... kind of living in her shadow? That Alison of 3119 is basically like you except accomplished so much more?"
>"Mm... no."

.... that's all she says about it.

>"Is that a bad answer?"
".... kind of?"
>"Well, I think it's okay. I'm glad she did what she did. Of course I would have liked to do it too, but we both did what we could, didn't we?"
"Yeah, but the circumstances really favored her over you. Doesn't that bug you? A little bit?"
>"Hmm... I don't think the circumstances had the mind to care one way or another. Circumstances don't think I did anything wrong, or that the current Alison was more worthy, or anything like that. It just was. Trying to blame something like circumstances is like telling the sky to be more green. You can do it, but it's not going to listen and change itself on your wishes. Besides, things might be okay anyway, and right now the circumstances are letting me make some good friends, so I don't think it's a bad hand at all."
>"Uh... I heard that I once made it to stage 9." says Jumper. "Based on what I heard about that one, I think I'm okay with just making it to a couple of safe zones and chilling out for a little while with some friends."
>"Same, heh, but I rarely made it past the preliminaries. I got my name by throwing items as soon as I got them, and it never really worked out, I heard."
"Well okay, maybe it's not bad right now, but it could've been better, right?"
>"Yes, and it could have been worse, but I don't like to think of things as good or bad. Just that they are."
"Do you play music?"

She shakes her head, maintaining that smile.

>"No, but I'd like to learn sometime. Do you have anything you'd like to do?"
>>
No. 764116 ID: 211d83

Get some hugs and maybe tell you my story if you would like to hear it.

Heck maybe you should learn how to play some music. You can literally do anything in here so why not spend some time learning more about yourself with these guys.

A bunch of folks learning what they want to be out on the town sounds fun.

Deep down you are made up of the same paterns as your previous incarnation. You will always have the soul of a Glitcher. But it's ok to be a different Glitcher if you want to. And just because your memories are distant does not mean you can't make new friends with your old friends.
>>
No. 764117 ID: 094652

Very nice Alison, very humble. More hugs, duh.

Ask about the current state of her neighbors. How is everyone holding up.
>>
No. 764119 ID: 398fe1

>>764112
So if she were in your shoes, she'd just be happy to be alive, and take that chance to make friends, or start doing new things. Your predecessor was a great man, but that doesn't mean you're any worse. You have just as much potential.

As for something you want to do, can't you do like, anything, already? Aside from saving the contestants from the wrath of Vanskii, is there anything you can't already do?

Maybe you could learn to paint?
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No. 764120 ID: c441c1

I wonder how the contestants that never got past the portals are doing in town?
>>
No. 764121 ID: 2120ee

>>764112
"Make the sky more green."
>>
No. 764122 ID: 3abd97

To borrow an element from Larro quest logic:

Comfy Alison.

Although Ringer should keep calling her Naga for now, it would be rude to do otherwise.

>Trying to blame something like circumstances is like telling the sky to be more green. You can do it, but it's not going to listen and change itself on your wishes.
Try not to think about the fact you could totally chance the color of the sky if you wanted.

>"No, but I'd like to learn sometime. Do you have anything you'd like to do?"
No. I haven't really had the chance to do anything. I heard about things some... other mes liked, but I'm kind of afraid to try them.
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No. 764135 ID: bfb318
File 148108653819.png - (14.74KB , 800x800 , 111.png )
764135

I collect some hugs. It's nice.

>As for something you want to do, can't you do like, anything, already?
In here, I can do anything.

I could change the sky to be more green too, of course, but it was just an analogy. I can't change the color of the real world sky anyways.

"I haven't really had the chance, myself. Maybe paint or learn music too or something."
>"We should go to the arcade." says Jumper. "So that we can buy all this stuff with tickets."
"I want to stay here for a little while. I'm tired of games."
>"Oh.... Well I didn't mean right now! Just when we want. What was your name, by the way?"
"Ringer."
>"I haven't been to the arcade yet." says Thrower. "I'll be going soon, but we don't all have to go together or anything!"
>"I'd like to learn music with you, Ringer." says the Naga. "It sounds like we'll have the time. We can learn how to do all kinds of things."
"To be honest, what I really want to do, is learn how to make the sky more green."

The Naga opens her mouth, but no sound comes out. She just hugs me tighter before speaking.

>"Are you upset? By your circumstances?"
"Yeah. Yeah, I am."
>"Would you like me to do anything for you, if it would help? I can listen, too, if you just want to talk."

We're all just one angry salikai away from complete annihilation.
>>
No. 764137 ID: 398fe1

>>764135
Time to spill the beans. Maybe the other two might want to go to the arcade first though. This isn't the sort of thing you want to share with them.
>>
No. 764138 ID: 3abd97

>"Would you like me to do anything for you, if it would help?
Surprise me? I mean, I should probably try to do something instead of moping about everything.

Hang out, see what she comes up with, see what it's like being a person with other people and maybe what it's like to have friends. Assuming you make friends here.

>I can listen, too, if you just want to talk.
Maybe after you've hung out for a while, you can tell her one of the other yous was one of the big people too (without going into details), and you're not sure how to feel about that. You don't even look like that you right now, cause you don't want anyone to think you're him.

In no way should you give a big reveal.
>>
No. 764147 ID: 91ee5f

>>764138
This.
>>
No. 764149 ID: 395c02

>>764138
Pretty much was going to say this, so... yeah, this.
>>
No. 764169 ID: 4863e5

Well, that's what Likol was so worried about, you know? You're kind of at a disadvantage, because everyone around you has already experienced what the possibility of dying is like, and learned to deal with it. They know how to do their best to preserve themselves and each other while also enjoying what they have while they have it. It's a skill.

I dunno for now perhaps you could somehow shoot Rulekeeper a message to take her time slowing down time until you can figure some things out.

I also say go enjoy yourself and live a little before making any big reveals, and when you do make a reveal it can be a more vague one, like "Ok I also know there's a version of myself that was much more important than me, I changed my look to not look like him because he's not actually around any more and I don't know how I should feel about maybe his friends caring about me. Also it's kind of theoretically possible that something weird happened and I actually am him just without the same memories but I don't feel like him and even though I've like sort of read all his history I don't think I could really be him to the people who knew him and I'm kind of scared of hurting them if I try to be."

I mean ok that's not so vague but this naga and her two friends don't seem like they'd pry too hard or figure it out on their own.
>>
No. 764174 ID: 8111b6

I suppose if you wanted to, you could time stop just for an instant to let Rulekeeper know that something is up, when you decide to, if you want privacy.

For now, vagueness is fine if you still want to vent your troubles to a stranger. As far as circumstances and the sky... well... welcome to life. Everyone is trying to make things a bit better for themselves, and, if they're charitable, for each other, as best they're able. Some have it easy, and some have to fight, scheme, connive, or steal for every morsel they have.
>>
No. 764196 ID: bfb318
File 148111543818.png - (17.27KB , 800x800 , 112.png )
764196

"Surprise me? I shouldn't be moping all the time. I don't even want to."
>"If you're tired of games, perhaps we should try something else? We can try cooking, or reading, or something else."
>"I think I'm going to go to the arcade personally." says Jumper. "But I'll share my tickets."
>"Same." Thrower says.

They leave. I don't know if I feel like doing much.

>"You feel distressed. Would you like to try resting?"
"Maybe. Can I? I'm restless."
>"It seems counterintuitive, but what if you tried putting all of your energy into resting?"
"That is ridiculous naga you're ridiculous."
>"It's a ridiculous world we live in, if you think about it."
"I don't even want to think about it."
>"Then just think about hugging me."
"Wow you really are a naga what is with all these hugs anyway?"
>"It's physical proof that we're not alone, and that we're not just figments in each others heads."
"Usually most people accept people talking as proof they're not alone."
>"It's true, but holding and being held is more than just being told they're a person. It's showing they're real. Squeeze me."
"What?"
>"You're just resting your arms on my back. Try squeezing me."

Well okay.

"Heh you are way squishier than I would have thought. Like you're supposed to have a spine or bones somewhere or something in theory."
>"I think theory is a bit loose, here."

She squeezes back and I do it harder too. There's a point where we would make each other's bodies explode or something but I just use the normal operator strength to make sure that doesn't happen.

"One of my counterparts was important too, but they're not around right now, and they had friends who might miss them. I don't even have their normal form since I don't want to make them think that I'm the important one. I might even be them just with memories messed up a bit or something it's confusing because I remember them being my friends except we've never really met, at least not with... it's confusing."
>"There, there. Are you afraid your counterpart will show up again, and you becoming friends with their friends might be awkward?"
"That's, uh, a possibility, sure."
>"Those aren't circumstances you can't change, Ringer. If you think your friends loved your counterpart for who your counterpart was, you should all like each other's company. If not, then you're probably a different person after all, and if you are and your counterpart returns, then... well, I think we've become friends, and I wouldn't mind at all if another Ringer showed up. If that happened, would you be jealous?"
"Uh... oh, geez, I might be, yeah. That'd be shitty of me though."

Somehow she ends up holding my hand.

>"But if that's the case, then you're being courteous to the other Ringer by not wishing to make them jealous, so I don't think you're a bad person at heart. If you'd like to work past that jealousy, then I'd like to see you visit your friends and work past your possible jealousy instead of avoiding them altogether. I won't think less of you either way, especially since I don't know your situation well. If you don't want to go to them right now, I'd love to hear about what your friends are like instead."

I am the god of this world, and there is no one who can stop me from creating and destroying as I please, yet the more godly I become, the more babylike I get.
>>
No. 764198 ID: 4863e5

If you've never been a child you can never grow up. The first step to getting stronger or smarter later is to know how weak or how stupid you are now. That's what learning feels like. And in your case, you kind of are a baby. You know how to do a lot of things but you've never actually done them. There's a big difference between knowledge and experience.

I wonder if maybe you've not totally expressed your worries, there. Tell her more. Like, I think in part you're worried that if people have missed your counterpart so much, and if they want to try get what they had back with you, they might expect more from you than you can give them. Like, you might be raising their hopes just to disappoint them? And it'd be kind of like killing their friend and giving them the same grief again. But there's also a kind of selfish side to it, that you could have a bunch of obligations dropped on you that you never signed up for, and that sucks and you might end up resenting it. And you don't want to end up resenting people who were so good to someone who was so much like you.
>>
No. 764199 ID: 211d83

None of you ever had the opportunity to be children. But its a vital part of growing up. If this is what feels best right now then enjoy the hugs and unburden yourself.

Tell her about your friends.

How you met another confused guy in the same situation and you got together to try and save the world.

How you met a nice lady who liked you for who you were and was not afraid of you.

How you helped her and in the process accidentally saw the memories of a thousand lifetimes and felt like the weight of your mistakes made life not worth living.

Talk about how your friends never gave up on you and slowly made you feel better again.

Mention how you helped them assault the very gates of heaven itself and watched them fight a battle 4 thousand years ago.

Talk about how your lady friend sang for you over a lonely 10 thousand years and helped you stay sane.

Tell her how she then sacrificed herself to make another person like you finally become a real person.

And tell her about Rulekeeper and how you finally found someone who made your life complete. And how you are scared to hurt her again by coming back and maybe not being the man she remembers.

And maybe talk about that one jerk you know who you pranked a lot but was still a friend. And how it felt good to work as a team for once and help him out.
>>
No. 764201 ID: 3d2d5f

Sorry for seperating you from your other friends.

>There's a point where we would make each other's bodies explode or something but I just use the normal operator strength to make sure that doesn't happen.
Safe Zone rules prooooobably hold in the new Sanctuary. You probably couldn't explode people unless you cheated with Glitching.

>yet the more godly I become, the more babylike I get
Maybe that's a good thing. There are a lot of stories about really terrible jerk gods. Being babylike maybe keeps you from being abusive and terrible. It's better to need people in your position than to walk all over them.

>I'd love to hear about what your friends are like instead
My first friend was a big sap. He really wanted nothing more than to have friends, but circumstances made him important, and gave him a lot of responsibility. He always had a hard time coping with that, and in trying to do the right things he sometimes made himself alone. He's a lot happier with less responsibility, and he can trust people.

My second friend was really kind. She wanted to help a lot of people, even when it hurt her to do so. Even when they hurt her. She gave me reason to keep going when I gave up on myself.

My third friend... didn't used to think she was a person. Somehow I showed her how to be one, even though I'm bad at it myself. She's got a weird sense of humor, and perspective, but we were good for each other.

My fourth friend... I don't even know if we're really friends. We both just like giving the other a hard time, and hamming it up. I guess that counts?
>>
No. 764203 ID: bfb318
File 148112584851.png - (15.77KB , 800x800 , 113.png )
764203

"Sorry for seperating you from your friends."
>"Oh, they're just downstairs! I can see them any time."
"Oh... well, my first buddy was kind of in the same situation now. He wasn't good with responsibility, but had a lot, and had a tough time with how many people were counting on him to make the right decisions. Then my second was the nicest one I've ever met. As nice as you even. She didn't give up on me regardless of how many times I gave up on myself and everything. Then my third, she didn't even think she was a person, but we got along just fine, and she basically was. The fourth... eh, no, the fourth was a scientist. Might barely even be a friend, but he's alright, just a downer."
>"Only four friends?"
"I, hm... is that bad?"
>"No, but there's a lot of people out there."
"Well, I just made a fifth I guess."

She grins and hugs me some more.

I go into more detail about the main people I know. Maybe I let too much slip. Maybe I give it away that it's Alison when I talk about her not being afraid of me and even willing to hug and sing to me. Or that it was corruptor, when I talk about a safe area outside of the contest. Or the Rulekeeper, about how we complemented one another even if we got off on the wrong foot.

"But they aren't really my friends now, because I feel too disconnected from it all. They liked my counterpart, and they might try to get what they had with the counterpart, through me. It would be like I'm back from the dead or something, but then I would just disappoint them. Plus, I might have obligations that I never signed up for that get dropped on me or something."
>"You also don't want to start from square one and try to make friends with them all over again while hiding the idea that you're not a completely new person, either, am I right?"
"You're right. I don't want to pretend."
>"Would you rather continue avoiding them?"
"It... might be for the best."
>"So you can't approach them as a blank slate since you don't think you're a blank slate, but you're not a, ah, 'filled' slate either, so you don't want them to think that, and approaching as a half slate might have those consequences and expectations of you, and you can't just undo them if you do any of that, can you?"
"I... what if I could?"
>"If you could rewind the whole world if you didn't like how something turned out? Hmm..."

She thinks for a moment.

>"What a tricky question. I don't think I'd like that power, though."
"What? Why not?"
>"Because if I had three options, and I decided on option A, and it didn't turn out well... well, option A is what I chose, and people's reactions to it would be their honest reaction to what I chose. If it didn't work the way I wanted to, and instead I rewinded to option B or C, well, I would then be making a decision based off of how timeline A went, but after rewinding it, timeline A wouldn't happen, it would be, say timeline B. But I experienced timeline A, and I know what it was like. If I kept rewinding every time I thought I made a mistake, I would be shaped by a huge amount of timelines that just don't exist. I would be, heh, I guess I just wouldn't feel like I was legitimately shaped by the timeline that everyone else is. I might feel a little too different. I'd end up remembering people more for what they didn't actually do than what they did. But at the same time, I'd feel so guilty if I just let my mistakes have big consequences. What a responsibility that would be! I'd be a wreck, Ringer. I'd feel more like a wandering entity through time than I would be like a person like everyone else. I couldn't last long like that."
"Huh. I don't know if I agree. Maybe? What if you had a few friends you could travel through those timelines with, in that case?"
>"This... ah, this is getting so complicated, but I still don't think I like the idea."
"Sorry."
>"Well, if we're talking about if you could undo, you'd have to make the decision for yourself. I think, back on the topic of meeting your friends or not, it's a really tough situation while you're in a weird between state of who you are. I think you should settle who you are first, because this sounds like being in the middle is what is making this so complicated for you. You say there's a chance this person might come back, though?"
"Uh... if they do, it'll be through me. I'll become that person."
>"That makes it simpler, then. If you feel too disconnected, you should embrace that and start off fresh, like we are. You can visit who you want, and you can stay with me as long as you like. You might have your old memories, but memories do fade, no matter how precious they might be. I'll support you while you try to let go. If you hate your disconnection, and want to try to become who you might once have been, then you should visit your old friends as soon as possible. Do it as an old friend who lost himself and wants to come back and reinforce all of those good memories you don't want to let fade. It might be painful, but if there's a chance of it working out, you might feel better trying."

Maybe there's an easy third option, but I don't think so. What the naga is saying makes sense, that it's a lot easier just trying to pick one or the other, and not waffling trying to solve everything as a half aberration.

Remain with the Naga. The Ringer is who I am right now. Whether I like responsibility or not, I'm the bridge between the two worlds. Trying to juggle that responsibility while being a confused mess is going to be dangerous. It might be easier for me to let go instead of trying to pursue being the person I used to be.
Approach the Rulekeeper. Try to save the glitcher. It might not work. Trying to revive the glitcher isn't going to be a pretty process either, and it's all for the kind of person that should never have nukes. If the Glitcher was an imperfect jewel, then the Ringer was a smashed jewel that's been put back together and held with duct tape, and is going to take a while to heal.
>>
No. 764205 ID: bfb318

Approach the Rulekeeper, get yourself put back together with super glue instead of duct tape.
>>
No. 764206 ID: 4863e5

I think there's going to be confusion anyway. You have a job to do, and eventually, people are going to figure out what you are. They're not dumb, in here, and Likol already said they were trying to recreate the Glitcher. They'll know you're an AI living in/made of the Ring Shell, and to be honest, you're probably eventually going to slip up and reveal that you have his factual memories. If you leave them to form their own conclusions, it might result in misunderstandings and hurt feelings anyway. Even if you stay as Ringer, there's going to be a mess. And there's really no proof that Ringer would be any better with nukes than Glitcher would be.

And you don't want to patronize people. If things turn to the worst, yeah it'll suck, but these people have dealt with major suckage before - worse than you have, frankly. They survived losing Glitcher once, and they can do it again if they need to. You need to get stronger, too. You'll have at least one friend to help you, either way, and with that I think you'll come out a little bit of a wiser, more capable person by the end of this, even if you fail.

So I say Approach the Rulekeeper. In a reasonable fashion. Maybe send a message from "outside" to her first, filling her in on your situation as if Likol is telling her, before you make your personal appearance? That way, you could make sure she's aware of the problems and of your concerns first thing. You could even have "Likol" "relay" your feelings about the matter.
>>
No. 764207 ID: 595d54

Stay with the Naga.
Eh, at this point I feel like Ringer is a person in his own right. Overwriting him with Glitcher just so we can have Glitcher back doesn't sit well with me. Maybe later we can recreate Glitcher again and give him actual memories instead of recordings.
>>
No. 764208 ID: c441c1

approach the rulekeeper
>>
No. 764209 ID: 850f11

Well if it was just you in the picture I would say to try out a new life and become the Ringer.

But you have a family who will never stop trying to save the old you if given the chance. Keeping them in the dark seems cruel. Give them the closure they need and the chance to help you. Even if its a long shot give them the chance to try.

Maybe they will be able to slowly help you reconnect to your old self.

Even if it does not work being around them will start forming new memories that you can be sure are yours. You will regain a family even if the old you never comes back.

But be careful. Before you go down this road do the same things for Likol and his hive that you did with Rulekeeper before you died. Put processes in place to help him that will work even if you are indisposed for the next few months/years with finding yourself. Don't just disappear on him and let him face the Salikai and the ASE guys alone.

Set up access so Rulekeeper and Mittens can operate stuff in the RS if you can. Even if you are a mess they can help keep things going in the outside world.
>>
No. 764212 ID: 3d2d5f

Even if ultimately your end up being a new person built from the ruins of the old, you deserve to know. The Glicher's friends deserve to know to. You should try.

If nothing else, trying and failing will help make you a person. You'll have experienced something important that defines you.

Say the two simple words that will bring you home, or help you build a new one:




"Rulekeeper, please."
>>
No. 764214 ID: 094652

Approach the Rulekeeper, but don't give out your identity.
She's not well. Recovering maybe, but not well. You can't just be that person instantly, but if she learns that she can bring him back with patience and dedication, well... it might help her mental state, at the very least. Act like one of Glitcher's pseudo-operators, give her clues and packets of code to play with.

And hey, if it doesn't pan out you can still date A-512 AFTER Rulekeep officially tells you that you should see other people.
>>
No. 764221 ID: 25393f

Well, when it's put like that... I think you should approach Rulekeeper. Quietly, if possible.
>>
No. 764226 ID: bfb318
File 148113660513.png - (17.38KB , 800x800 , 114.png )
764226

"I'm going to see my friend."
>"Okay. Good luck. Do you need any help? There's a lot of people, and it's tough to find anyone if you don't know where they are."
"No, I'll be okay. You'll be alone, though."
>"I'm going to go to the arcade as well. But if you ever want to come back, I'm going to live in this room, so please visit again. I want to know how it goes with you."
"Okay. Goodbye."
>"Goodbye."
>>
No. 764227 ID: bfb318
File 148113661867.png - (56.80KB , 800x800 , 115.png )
764227

I walk down the building, down the streets, and up another building to go to the rooftop where Rulekeeper and Mittens are. I take my time. I haven't felt much, but the feeling of dread over meeting the Rulekeeper like this is one of them. Plus, I need to set up some things for Likol. I make sure the pseudo-sentient AI is operating okay, and the tooth, on paper, will be one way communication and it'll have to be a puzzle for the specialists to figure out how to get the contestants to return messages. And how to get the sentient AI to learn how to read the RS in a useful way. More importantly, it will evolve over time to be more helpful on its own, so if I don't keep it in check - in other words, if I'm indisposed - it'll grow up to help Likol. It'll also be loyal to Rulekeeper. It might even be a better AI than me to rule over the RS, but considering it's not tested, I'd rather not just pass on the responsibility to it.

I was right to tell Likol after all, though. I want my experiences back. My experiences as Ringer won't be overridden, either, it'll just be a weird episode of my life as the glitcher, which isn't that weird.

Rulekeeper is chatting with Mittens on a balcony. She's attempting to grieve by talking with others more often. It's a bad sight, but she's doing better. At least not a giant sad, wet sock.

I could write a message to her. Just an anonymous one, neither from Likol or the Glitcher or the Ringer, but maybe I should just approach in person from the beginning.
>>
No. 764228 ID: 595d54

>>764227
>My experiences as Ringer won't be overridden, either

Oh, cool. That's a relief. Yeah just show up in person, this is a personal thing and a message doesn't really help.
>>
No. 764229 ID: 595d54

Stranner says he's too busy at work to vote personally but wants to make it known he supports showing up in person.

I don't know if this reasonably counts as a vote, since I could just be saying that and it's probably not exactly a great precedent, but I figure anyone currently in the IRC can verify for themselves if they're curious.
>>
No. 764230 ID: 25393f

>>764227
Just go in person.
>>
No. 764231 ID: 90f3c0

Go in person, it'll be best to be direct and honest.
>>
No. 764232 ID: fa4709

Hiding from this is only going to make this worse for everyone. Go talk to her in person.
>>
No. 764234 ID: 4863e5

At the very least, it's polite to inform someone that you're coming to visit them, rather than just showing up suddenly out of nowhere. She might be expecting to have some privacy right now, or be in a vulnerable mood, or have plans for what she's supposed to be doing for the next while. At the very least, she would probably want a little time to wrap up whatever she's doing and to get her head straight. Unless you're already very close to someone, it's very rude to be a surprise guest, even when complicated emotions aren't potentially on the table.

And if you're sending her a message anyway, you might as well set the stage a little. I think, if I was Rulekeeper, I would very much appreciate being at least a little informed. There's a potential for her to get hurt, here, and you want to minimize it. I mean, even if you don't care about her feelings, she is in control around here, and godly though you may be you haven't tested yourself against her yet. The difference between knowledge and experience may yet turn out to be a large one.

Drama can be fun to watch, but no-one likes to have it suddenly sprung on them in their own life.

tl;dr Go in person but let her know you're coming, geeze were you raised in a barn
>>
No. 764238 ID: 0778ca

Glitcher once felt that he had screwed up by being awkward and distant around a long lost friend.

In his last letter to Corrupter, he wrote that their time together in sanctuary was hard to remember, and that it was weird to be around him because it felt like reading string data just wasn't good enough to emulate the feelings and experiences they had. He felt that he should have just gotten over it and enjoyed their time together, but died before they had a chance to getting back to being best pals.

There are a few parallels in this situation and it might be a good idea to learn from your past self's mistakes. Approach in person, don't let the dread or awkwardness overcome you. Be natural. Make a bad joke. Appear and say "whoops".
>>
No. 764239 ID: 3d2d5f

I don't think she should have to do this in front of other people. She should be free to be herself, without having to act and be brave as the god apparent inside the sim everyone depends on.

Find a private area somewhere with a table. Sit down, and say "Rulekeep, please" as any contestant in need of her assistance would do to summon her.

She'll show, especially when she realizes she's being called by someone she never met or revived.
>>
No. 764240 ID: 850f11

Just approach her in person.

Go up and say hi.

Then joke with Mittens about him trying to steal your girl while your body is not even cold yet.
>>
No. 764242 ID: 398fe1

You've been casually sensing what people are doing from far away. Can you sense what's going on in the veil blocks?
>>
No. 764247 ID: bfb318
File 148114128489.png - (34.43KB , 800x800 , 116.png )
764247

>Can you sense what's going on in the veil blocks?
Yeah. A lot of nothing of consequence, anymore.

I just go. She's not doing anything special right now, so I won't be intruding on anything. She notices my approach, and lets Mittens know that there's an anomaly coming. I have little confidence in my ability to not make this awkward, but I'm going to try.

The glass door is reached. We all stare at each other. She sure did take a modest form for being a demi god of - oh wait, my form was modest too.

We all just wait for me to go through. That little bit of confidence I had is dissolving hard.

Shit I'm fucking up bad, I should have gone off somewhere else and said the key phrase to summon her so we can do this in private.
>>
No. 764248 ID: bfb318
File 148114129773.png - (124.27KB , 800x800 , 117.png )
764248

>"Rulekeep, that's an operator." says Mittens. "I know they aren't contestants, but you can't just call operators an ano-"
"It's not an operator." she says.

Damnit they're acknowledging me! Not to me, but acknowledging me to each other!

"That person has the form of an operator, and the tags, yet it feels like it's being driven by an outside force. One I can't detect."
"Well whoever's driving is a big creep."

Oh my god I'm just staring wide eyed at them through the glass like the biggest stalker thing ever. Wait maybe I can burst through and start to make a joke about Mittens stealing my girl! No. No, that's no good. That's exactly what the Glitcher would do, but this is the first time I feel like I'm seeing either of these two in person. For me to joke like that, as I am now, would just be an imitation. I may as well just take his form while I was at it.

I'm still staring! The hell is wrong with me? I should have frozen everything and thought about this for two seconds or something god damn.
>>
No. 764249 ID: bfb318
File 148114131741.png - (15.63KB , 800x800 , 118.png )
764249

I run off like a big coward. Or a small one? Whatever, I fucked up, I fucked up big. Maybe I can summon her now? Who does that? Who runs up to the person from a mile away, stares at them, then runs back away and then summons them?!

Erg. Time to start over I guess.

"Hello."
>>
No. 764250 ID: bfb318
File 148114132571.png - (14.49KB , 800x800 , 119.png )
764250

"Ah!?"
"Who are you?"
>>
No. 764253 ID: 595d54

>>764250
"Likol reconstituted the parts of Glitcher scattered in the Ring Shell into me." Explain how you have his abilities but not genuine memories, just recordings. Ask for help accessing your actual memories.
>>
No. 764256 ID: 3d2d5f

>who are you
"I'm not sure, anymore. I know who I used to be. And who I could maybe be again. I'm kind of broken right now, though."

Hold up your hand, and make it Glitch.

"I'm sorry. I don't think this reunion is the way you'd want it."
>>
No. 764257 ID: 417941

>>764250
"I am one part of what used to be a whole. Memories, but not the right Feelings."

Proceed to spill your spaghetti all over, you dork.
>>
No. 764259 ID: 398fe1

>>764250
Tell her you're Likol's latest failed creation, and master of social screwups. The zombie-like entity in control of the ring shell, made out of what remained of Glitcher: Dead Ringer. You want to know if you can become Glitcher, like some digital Pinnochio.

...wait a minute if you can rewind the entire simulation what's keeping you from rewinding to a point where Glitcher was still alive? Can you not go back that far? Also are you even sure you can rewind Rulekeep? And Savior?
>>
No. 764260 ID: 25393f

Dude, you're fine, stop worrying so much. This is probably gonna be all weird and awkward for a while but the point is you're doing it, okay?
>>
No. 764261 ID: 3e70e5

>who are you
"I'm not sure, anymore. I know who I used to be. And who I could maybe be again. I'm kind of broken right now, though."

Hold up your hand, and make it Glitch.

"I'm sorry. I don't think this reunion is the way you'd want it."
>>
No. 764262 ID: a6dc58

"I think I was the Glitcher once...and I think I'd like to be him again if I could. When the Gliter died, his message got out. There are people outside of the Ring Shell...there is a lot they don't know about the system, but they were able to string his pieces together, and that made me. I have his memories, but right now they don't feel like they are mine."
>>
No. 764263 ID: 25393f

>>764260
Also I think the correct thing to say is 'it's me, the glitcher, well sort of, not really, I don't know, help" because I think that's an accurate summary of how you feel about it and gets the point across.
>>
No. 764264 ID: 4863e5

"A person who's really awkward, sorry, I didn't know how to act back there I'm super nervous, I didn't mean to just stare like a creeper. Um. Ok. You know I'm a weirdo outsider. You've been talking to Likol. He's... responsible for me being here. Sort of. I mean I'm my own person and I decided to and he let me but ultimately I can be here because of him and his team's efforts. I'm uh well ok let me give you the status update, so ok he told you he was trying to reconstitute your friend but wasn't very successful, so right first thing they did manage to sort of recreate an AI in the Ring Shell but it had no memories or anything and wasn't able to think properly and wasn't really much of anything. And uh then they took a big risk and allowed it full control of the Ring Shell so it could try rebuild itself but that didn't quite work completely either? They ended up with an AI that was able to think right and had records of your friend's history but didn't actually really remember the experiences or emotions and felt really disconnected to it, and that AI didn't feel like it was the same person as your friend but like maybe it was just with amnesia or something maybe it could be fixed, but maybe not, and then that AI was really pretty confused and scared and didn't want to come in here or announce themselves because it didn't want to disappoint anyone and it was all really complicated, but they decided to come in in disguise and like just you know go for it because they'd always regret not trying in case it really could be your friend come back to life again, but it's still super anxious that it can't be and maybe it'll all go wrong."

"Aaaaaand now imagine that AI is actually me. Um. Hello."
>>
No. 764265 ID: 211d83

I used to be the Glitcher.

Likol turned back the RS and put me back together again. But he did it slowly so my memories are distant and I feel weird. He gave me control over the entire Ring shell in the process.

It took me a long time to work up the courage to see you again. And I don't know what to do now.

I thought if I changed my name and snuck in quietly that it would help me figure things out. But now I am here and I am scared to death of meeting you for the first time. Again.
>>
No. 764267 ID: df49f7

"I don't really know. :("
>>
No. 764268 ID: e22b1d

I am the Glitcher. And the Ring Shell as well now. I don't really know but I am scared and my old life seems so distant and I want you to help me fix that.

I broke into a million pieces Rulekeeper. To fix me Likol forced me back together and gave me power over everything in our world. He hoped I could fix myself where he could not.

And it sort of worked. But I don't think I did it right. And now I can see and do everything we dreamed of doing. But life is a lot more complex than we thought.

Do you still want me back?
>>
No. 764271 ID: b412df

To be honest, I'm not entirely sure. Then explain.
>>
No. 764273 ID: 4546ab

I don't know anymore. I was hoping that you could look inside of me and fix things. So I would not be so scared to see you again. So I could be whole again. So we could be together again.
>>
No. 764279 ID: 4863e5

Guys please, he's in no state to deliver these smooth tragic romance lines.
>>
No. 764282 ID: 3abd97

"It's me! I'm... except I'm not, right now."
>>
No. 764284 ID: db0da2

"I am that I am." Followed by nervous laughter.

Don't worry about being yourself or being the Glitcher, just run our mouth until everything works out or falls apart. If you end up sounding like Glitcher, then that's a natural way to become the glitcher again.
>>
No. 764288 ID: bfb318
File 148114732567.png - (13.54KB , 800x800 , 120.png )
764288

>What's stopping you from rewinding to a point where the Glitcher was alive?
Nothing, except it's more like playing the RS forward, backwards. I'd need to isolate my own AI so that I don't just remove myself and have things play out exactly as they were going to anyway up till the Glitcher died, and at that point I'd just be making a duplicate glitcher, and invalidating the last several days of contestants lives, and maybe months and months of Rulekeep and the kids.

Ah.

I could make a new glitcher, couldn't I? Except it wouldn't be me, it would just be a recreation of the Glitcher, and I could even give him the exact same experiences through that trick Likol mentioned. But that's lame and a lie and just a clone of the Glitcher and I may as well do it myself to myself if I'm going to do it like that.

"Likol took all the broken Glitcher parts and shoved them together into a big social awkward mess. Then he held it together for long enough to let it take over the RS completely, and it thought it was the glitcher, but it was just kind of a weird reanimation that was missing some parts and it was different enough that it wasn't really the glitcher. But it used to be the glitcher."

".... it's me. I'm the remnants of the glitcher. I am that I am." I can't even manage a smile here.
>>
No. 764289 ID: bfb318
File 148114735385.png - (15.52KB , 800x800 , 121.png )
764289

"The... remnants?"

She takes my hand apart.

"This shell is being operated by the RS, but inside of the RS, so there's nothing actually inside, here."
"I've been trying to find a way to recreate you! I really hoped Likol succeeded where I couldn't find a lead."
"How about that translation team?"
"It's too much for them. They're hitting too many roadblocks. Glitcher, I..."
"Please don't call me that. Not until I'm actually intact."
"What's missing?!"
"The experiences. I read the memory reel from front to back, but it was just like reading a book about the glitcher. As far as my memories go, it's like I'm experiencing everything like it's new. I've been calling myself the Ringer - as in Dead Ringer, get it?"

Her body is still. She gets it though.

"Until we fix me up, you proooobably shouldn't think of me as the Glitcher. And I do want to be fixed up. I had a good thing going on with you."
"You really took over... the whole RS, Gl... ?"
"Uh... Rulekeep, you know, I'm the RS, I'm kind of double-omniscient here. It's a cute trick to freeze your shell like that, but it's a bit hard to have a good talk here when you're freezing your body language.
"Can... can you place some of your RS inside of this operator?"
"Uh sure I guess. Like the remnants?"
"Yes."
>>
No. 764290 ID: bfb318
File 148114736551.png - (16.31KB , 800x800 , 122.png )
764290

She starts choking up.

"This- you're glitcher! I can tell!"
"Well, okay, sort of physically speaking, but the mind is kind of wiped."
"Can you g... no, you shouldn't have to go through your whole life again, you must have thought of that already."
"Well Likol did, but yeah it'd be kinda... like cloning myself or something I guess."
"Did... Gl - Ringer? I can't not think about you as Glitcher! Whoever you think you are, did you believe there was any chance I wouldn't want to see you again even with a blanked mind?! You thought you had to hide from me as an operator?!"

Huh - oh, she read the strings of the operator up to this point, so she caught everything I said while around here.
>>
No. 764292 ID: a8bc5c

Well you got her attention now even if you didn't want it, might as well follow through.

"Ringer, I guess? It's not my real name but it'll serve for now."

If you get any questions about what you are or where you came from, just say that you are an incomplete AI from the ring shell and you are not okay.
>>
No. 764293 ID: 595d54

>>764290
"I wasn't sure the emotions would be good for either of us. Especially if it turns out I can't get myself back."

She probably already saw that but it's still worth saying it out loud.
>>
No. 764294 ID: db0da2

I was worried that exactly what's happening right now would happen, but I guess that's alright, because I chose to do it anyway.

Maybe you've been thinking about this wrong. You are the Glitcher, you have his memories, his personality, and you're recognizably him to Rulekeeper, you just have an affliction where you feel disconnected from your past, which is pretty bad, but not really start an entire new identity bad.
>>
No. 764297 ID: 3abd97

>Whoever you think you are, did you believe there was any chance I wouldn't want to see you again even with a blanked mind?! You thought you had to hide from me as an operator?!
...I didn't know if coming back like this was right. It's so much like false hope that it's cruel.

I... wanted to try talking to people without hurting them, first. I wanted to test if I could be a person. I hadn't really been one, yet, you know. I woke up, I read some things I should remember but can't, talked to a neumono who really isn't emotionally equipped to help me with this mess. That was it. I... wasn't ready for this. Not until I got Alisoned some, and even then I ran away and almost didn't talk to you.

This is scary, you know? I don't now how to be me.
>>
No. 764299 ID: 395c02

>>764297
This sounds better than what I was writing, so this.
>>
No. 764304 ID: 850f11

I was afraid. I remember loving you and everyone so much and I did not want to give you false hope and hurt you. Everything is a mess inside me Rulekeeper. I can remember everything but its like a stranger did it all.

So I hid as a operator while I slowly worked up the courage to talk to you. And then when I saw you in person I just froze.

I am a mix of the confused depressed Glitcher from long ago and the confident guy who was with you. I need your help to find myself.

So please don't be mad. I just was afraid of breaking your heart again.
>>
No. 764306 ID: bfb318
File 148114925738.png - (14.07KB , 800x800 , 123.png )
764306

"Uh... I mean... well, geez. Didn't know if it was right to do this, it might just be a false hope, that I could do more than just read about how I loved you. I mean I didn't even know if I could be a person on my own, and I didn't want to just be impersonating the glitcher for the rest of my life like it was really who I was. I mean, I know I wasn't ready for..."

I trail off for one second, then she chokes up again.

"Glitcher, I just..."

She screams, and the waterworks start happening.

".... this, yeah. Wasn't ready for this. I was afraid of this happening and not sure these emotions are good for the either of us. I mean I needed to get Alisoned just to get the courage to speak to you, cause I kind of don't want to keep breaking your he - "
"Y-you stupid, irresponsible... I'm just... you think I care?! I mean of course I do care that your real memories or experiences are gone, but you didn't think I'd be willing to start new with you even if we couldn't restore you completely?! I-I've been so lonely and you thought that I was just... you thought that I'd rather never see you again than..."

She's tries to finish that sentence in a jumble of incoherent babbling and just starts bawling non stop. I'd kind of want to run from this but that would be the most dick moves of a long life of dick moves and also she's coiling around me not letting me move, or at least the operator.
>>
No. 764307 ID: 4863e5

The fact that you've read Glitcher's memories are sort of the problem. If you had just come forward as "here's the pieces of the Glitcher put back together but with no memory", like you were just glitcher-with-amnesia, it would still have been sad but I feel like everyone would have known where they stood and what to do with themselves better.

"Of course I thought you'd want to see me! I thought there'd be a lot of things you'd want, things you deserve, but... things I don't know if I can give you. I was scared of screwing up. Like, uh... like I'm doing right now, I think. I'm sorry."
>>
No. 764310 ID: 595d54

>>764306
The worry was that a fake would be worse than nothing, yes.
>>
No. 764311 ID: db0da2

"I'm here aren't I?"

Do the hug thing, prove that you're there.

>the most dick moves of a long life of dick moves
That's the attitude, welcome back Glitcher.
>>
No. 764312 ID: 850f11

Give her a hug you dummy.

Just hold her and stroke her back and say you are sorry for being a doof.
>>
No. 764313 ID: 595d54

>>764306
Oh, and hug her back.
>>
No. 764314 ID: 4863e5

Whoops shot past an update. Well, the thoughts still apply. Let her cry for a minute before you continue. Give her a pat on the shoulder or something, maybe?

And continue expressing your fears. There's so much you don't know about yourself now. Are you maybe more than just Glitcher, like... all the Glitchers who've died? Did they all go back to the Ring Shell? What if you've changed. She's talking about wanting to start again but what if you're too different now, what if you aren't able to feel that way any more? It would be too cruel. You tried to play it safe, since you didn't trust yourself. You still don't.
>>
No. 764315 ID: 3abd97

>I'd kind of want to run from this but that would be the most dick moves of a long life of dick moves
To be fair you've only lived a short life of dick moves right now. That's the whole problem.

>what do
I don't suppose there's any way you can reach out to her? Like, can the ring shell touch the core of the paradise Sanctuary? Direct RS hug? Bridge (If Ringer / Glicher has control of the RS, he should be able to stop it from breaking down other material it comes into contact with).

Failing that.

"See, this, right here, isn't fair. It's not fair that my being here hurts you. I feel bad about hurting you, but it's not the same. That's not right."

>what else do
...have you tried floating all your RS remnants into the shell? Maybe the reason you couldn't access your memories in the ring shell is they're stored somewhere in the simulation, and you actually need to be there to access them.
>>
No. 764318 ID: 850f11

>>764315

Yeah put yourself back together properly before you give her a hug. Your old shell and your core back where they used to be and see if it helps any.

Then hug Rulekeeper and comfort her until she feels better.
>>
No. 764328 ID: a8bc5c

Bits of your girlfriend appear to be disintegrating, you may want to look at that.
>>
No. 764330 ID: 4863e5

>>764318

Well, he should be discerning about it. Some of his old shell/core was repurposed for other things, like his kids. Can't just take those back.

Really, the old Glitcher was astonishingly resilient. Didn't he lose something like 98% of his original core and shell, and still hold on to all his memories and his attachment to them?
>>
No. 764336 ID: df49f7

>>764330

Thinking back, the old Glitcher never had a perfect record with his memories, either. He complained sometimes about having to recall things by reading strings instead of from his own experience. Someone already mentioned how he felt about how he'd drifted away from Corruptor, and what he feels now is a more extreme version of that. And like, remember when he spend those long ages alone, with no-one to talk to but Alison? For a while after he came out, he seemed like he had emotional troubles then, too, like Alison was all he cared about any more.

I wonder if perhaps what Glitcher's missing isn't some special function of memory, but just the sense of the... for lack of a better word, the momentum of those memories. The sense of all those previous moments being directly linked in a chain to the present. The sense of connectedness to the world, the visceral feeling that the environment has shaped who you are and that you've shaped it. The sense of having been and still being made, of it all being one.

In which case, the feeling of disconnectedness is an illusion. This person is very much shaped by who Glitcher was and his actions, which in turn were created by all these people and the world they live in. The connections are there, they just need to be felt. Which is something that will happen by itself a little, over time. Just by this awkward moment of Rulekeeper crying on him, there's a personal connection of some sort being built. He's made her feel things and she's made him feel things, each altering the actions of the other thereof.

And I mean, come on. There are at least a lot of character traits in common between the Glitchers. The way they screw things up, for one.
>>
No. 764341 ID: 4863e5

>>764336

Hmm. Ringer/Glitcher, you've looked over Glitcher's memories, but did you ever look at the Ring Shell's memories? Presumably it keeps logs or something, if it can be rewound. Could you look back and trace exactly how Glitcher came apart, and where exactly each particle went and what it did, until they were brought back together to the point where you recovered your full faculties?

Basically, have you taken a good hard look at exactly how what was Glitcher became you?
>>
No. 764344 ID: bfb318
File 148115315617.png - (14.45KB , 800x800 , 124.png )
764344

"I was worried the fake would be worse than nothing, yes. I don't know if I could give you what you wanted when I showed up with all these expectations. Maybe I shouldn't have ran through the memories, but at the time I was pretty short sighted and just assumed I was the glitcher for real. I don't even know if I'm like that, or if I'm all the glitchers combined or something."

She squeezes the operator body and I'm pretty sure she's gonna make it explode if she hugs any harder, safe zone or not. I end up just waiting it out in awkward, awkward silence. I still hug her back anyway.

"Sorry, I'm sorry!" she says, trying to get it together. "I worked hard to bring you back, but even as I did, I wasn't letting myself ever rely on the idea you could come back. Even when Likol said what he did, I knew I couldn't rely on it, so... I'll be back to my old self in just a minute! This isn't like me. I shouldn't even be able to cry!"
"It is a little weird actually, but it'd be tough for me to judge."

I still feel like I'm screwing up but maybe I'm not I dunno I guess I'll just get some parts of my old shell back and shove my RS remnants in there like the old days.
>>
No. 764347 ID: bfb318
File 148115341543.png - (18.67KB , 800x800 , 125.png )
764347

Okay she's crying again. It didn't do anything magical either.

"I'm okay! I'm okay!"
"You're kinda... hm. I'll just... take your word for it?"
"I just.. need a moment. How are things... is there a way for us to save people?"
"Yeah I mean the RS won't be dissolving any people passing through so maybe we can just store people in there or something.
"I'm so sorry, I've never been able to get anything done without you."
"Rulekeeper maybe I press a trigger but I usually aim the gun at my own foot."
"Still, I've just been so helple-"
"Rulekeep. Rulekeep. Look at me. Look at my face. Is this the face of someone who can control the RS with the unparalleled amount of responsibility it needs? No, the answer is no. I need your help."
"What can I do?"
"I can bring you to the RS and you can help me control it, and maybe look for a way to rebuild me better or something. I looked over it all and it seems like I should be whole but I'm not, maybe things work differently since come to think of it I was always pretty bad at remembering things right."
"What about Likol? Is he okay? I want to know about the outside world."

So she says.
>>
No. 764348 ID: 595d54

>>764345
"Shit went down." Explain about how Likol doesn't have free reign and how you guys need to help mess with the ASE guys.
>>
No. 764350 ID: 3abd97

>"What about Likol? Is he okay? I want to know about the outside world."
We're on neumono world, it turns out. Maybe there's a way to make a link to the outside computer so Engineer and Historian and people can read the stuff and learn about it.

...Likol's not in a great spot. Apparently we're hidden in some experiment in an evil science bunker, and Likol is in trouble for taking the risk to fix me. His boss isn't a nice guy and would probably reset things if he knew we were here. The neumono hive are kind of on thin ice with the salikai for having a conscience.

>"What can I do?"
I can take you to my brain and you can poke around. That's what you did with old-me, right? You learned from his core and he learned from your strings. Maybe you'll understand something I don't.

You're basically the RS at this point, and she's basically block C. You've gotta be able to do more together than you could alone.

>what do
Ask her permission and teleport the two of you to the ring shell. Let her see your brain.
>>
No. 764352 ID: 398fe1

>>764345
Tell her things outside are really bad. She probably should wait until later to hear about it, because she's not calm right now. All she needs to know is that you have to hide all evidence you've been tampering with the Ring Shell. But hey at least you can tell her about how Neumono have a weird empathy sense.

Hmm, won't the researchers notice if you bring Rulekeep into the RS? I mean, isn't she an entity of large enough importance to be noticed in the logs? Or can you just hide her from the logs via your connection with the RS?
>>
No. 764354 ID: 4863e5

"Likol is... ok, for now. The outside world is... I'm gonna be honest, it's not great. I think it'd be a bad idea to pile it all on you at once right now, though, not on top of... this. Maybe you should hold off on slowing down this place to match the real world for a while? Just to give yourself time to get back in top form. I know you're amazing anyway - even just from in the Ring Shell looking in you seemed like you were keeping things together and figuring out stuff I couldn't - but we're going to need top 100% amazingness for what we're going to have to deal with. And it'll give me time to try figure myself out a bit more, too."
>>
No. 764355 ID: 91ee5f

Tell her about what's going on. And also tell her that you made a startling discovery about neumono. They're apparently psychic or something! Which makes it hard to make secret plans with Likol.
>>
No. 764356 ID: 211d83

Poor girl. Just keep hugging her as you talk.

Tell her the basics. The threat of the cycles should no longer exist with you in control of the Ring shell but you are still not out of the fire yet.

Talk about Likol and what he and his hive did for you and how they need your help soon. About how Neumono are psychic bunnies apparently and suck at keeping secrets. How there boss is a monster and holds the true body of the Cai in his creepy little claws.

And what she can do? Just be herself. Help you save our new neumono buddies and figure out a way to get our hardware somewhere safe eventually. Be the Rulekeeper to your Glitcher. There is a big world out there and we will need everyone's help to find a way to save ourselves.

If she can help you find a way to feel like your old self that would be great. And if we can't well you two can make some new memories together that are all your own.
>>
No. 764359 ID: e22b1d

Tell her the story of what you ran into in the real world. And keep hugging her.

Then tell her she needs to stop bringing people back for now. Having the sim run equal to normal time might be important later but we need time to plan and recover right now. Maybe have a vacation to help you get back on your feet before we dive into saving the world.

Not saying to kill the people she already brought back but to not bring any more back and maybe put some to sleep for awhile. We need to be smart as a Cai to fix this mess. And that means being able to have years to work on problems in relative time to the outside world sometimes.

Most of the time we can probably be on real world time. But if need be Rulekeeper should have a switch that puts 90% of the population to sleep so the core teams can work on stuff at light speed.
>>
No. 764360 ID: df49f7

"You don't need to be sorry for crying, this is a crying moment. I should be crying, too. Or like, the Glitcher version of crying. You're the one doing this right. If I was the way I should be, I'd be able to give you more than... whatever feelings these are I have right now. I'm sorry. Sorry I'm not... more sorry, I guess. Or more happy. Or just... better."
>>
No. 764361 ID: 4863e5

>>764359

I think the fairest way would be to institute some sort of actual sleep cycle. Set up a "day", and set it so everyone needs to "sleep" (enter a low-energy/processing mode) for X out of Y hours in the day. Then everyone who's already been woken up gets to continue having turns at being awake and active.
>>
No. 764369 ID: fd73fa

Tell her how things are going above with Likol but break it to her gently. She needs to know they have a sociopathic monster controlling Likol and their entire existence is hinging on how well Likol can sell things to the salikai and keep under wraps how much control you actually have. This is also something to work on while trying to put you back together.

Also just a confirmation, the suggestion up above was indeed voiced by me. I'll try to not do so again to avoid possible complications and dishonesty but I felt it was an issue important to vote on. Thank you all for your patience and understanding.
>>
No. 764384 ID: 64d1ea

Alright, enough of the sappy-stale puppy love, this was a good vacation for the entire simulation, but work TIME IS NOW. Vanski has begun his opening three turns and we're still trying to figure out what LANGUAGE the instruction manual is in.

We don't need everyone to go into full overdrive or even part-time, but they need to participate or they're all dead. Think tanks, processing power, hacking tools, this all needs to be started on by the end of the week, start leading people and get the ball rolling!
>>
No. 764391 ID: 595d54

>>764384
3/10 tbqh apply yourself
>>
No. 764456 ID: a8bc5c

>>764356
Let's go with this. Most sensible option.
>>
No. 764457 ID: a8bc5c

>>764356
Let's go with this. Most sensible option.
>>
No. 764532 ID: b412df

If you're going to bring Rulekeep into the RS to investigate, check the cameras or estimate the time since you spoke to Likol. Just so you don't accidentally pop up in the view of the ASE specialists.
>>
No. 764535 ID: bfb318
File 148123605885.png - (16.08KB , 800x800 , 126.png )
764535

"Shit's gone down! All I need from you is to be the Rulekeeper to the Glitcher. The real world kind of stinks to be honest. In fact maybe we should slow things down out there by putting some people back to sleep. Just have them, I dunno need sleep cycles or something. Lower their processing power. That sort of stuff."
"That sounds fair, but not by too much. It would be unfair to go too far unless needed. We can always pause everything, though."
"Right. Well love time is over, work time is now. That was a crying moment but now is the time for stoic rulekeeper. You're gonna be block C, I'm gonna be the Ring Shell. I'd like for you have power over the RS too but looking at it, I'm not really sure I can do that without just making another Rulekeep in RS form. It's almost like I'm back to a square one glitcher that has no idea what they're doing, but just can intuitively glitch things out, except instead it's RS functions. And like square one glitcher, other people can't really try to manually do it without fucking everything up. Actually maybe you can do better since you can sorta read RS cores anyway. It's okay either way though, I'm basically omniscient up there and can do whatever people ask me to do. Want to see the RS?"
"Okay."
>>
No. 764536 ID: bfb318
File 148123606981.png - (43.75KB , 800x800 , 127.png )
764536

"I should make it look prettier, this aesthetic is going to get old fast. But this is where it all happens, and I can use this big brain of mine to take over any connected electronics and look at surveillance all over the base we're in and all that good stuff."

She keeps close to me, this time more out of fear of being in the RS than anything. She starts studying the heck out of it, but it's going slowly.

"Try walking over there and give an order where my avatar can't hear, okay?"
"Er... okay."
>>
No. 764537 ID: bfb318
File 148123609196.png - (31.81KB , 800x800 , 128.png )
764537

She goes over a ways, and asks to see if she can get a visual on Likol.

I detect that, and let the RS give her a sight. He's not in sight, though.

By having the RS read Rulekeep's thoughts, it's almost like she can drive it. I do need to be around though; if something happens to my AI here, she won't inherit control or anything.

"What a terrible grouping of experiments. It's not just our cycles that happen, it seems like the salikai are preparing for a war. There is a big emphasis on weaponry, both normal and biological, including lots of experiments on neumono. Poisons, diseases, cloning, regeneration.... hm. And it's a little strange. It's like this facility is supposed to have ubiquitous surveillance, but aren't there a lot of people who are outside of our sight range?"
"Yeah there's pockets."
"Look at this history, though. If we rewind the cameras, we can see a lot of coming and going, but somehow, more and more people, especially the salikai, are going where we can't be heard. Hm... here's Likol. He appears to have walked away 10 minutes ago. He appears to be saying something? Oh, but not out loud. He said 'watch the spiders, but do not touch them.'"
"You can read lips?"
"I passed the video on to someone who could. Look. People are disappearing, too."
"What?"
"There are a few security cameras that are only showing an empty hallway. People exiting certain cameras should show up on these, but they show nothing. Vanski is behaving oddly. Glitcher, we need to bring in people to the RS for this, there is a lot going on out there."
>>
No. 764539 ID: 398fe1

>>764537
Yes, she's right. Something is happening. Bring in whoever's best at this kind of paranoia-inducing secrecy and clandestine operations. Also a team of science-inclined contestants.

Also, Ringer, if you're a novice again where the ring shell is concerned maybe you should freeze time to train. Or would that be noticed by the researchers?
>>
No. 764540 ID: fa4709

>>764539
I'm not sure how much good stopping time would do anyway, since we're interested in givng everyone a halfway decent lifespan. Plus it's not going to stop real life. As much as a Ringer training montage would be cool, there's simply no time
>>
No. 764542 ID: 49fe0f

Ok, one, say yes this is the excellent Rulekeeper your weird memories told you about, all noticing stuff you don't and being smart.

Second, how long has it been since the conversation you had with Likol before diving back into the system, is that the 10 minutes ago Rulekeeper is referring to? And when Rulekeeper talks about looking at the history, just to be clear, is that recent history, or has this gradual increase in people moving out of surveillance been happening before that? Before the whole thing with Likol discovering you guys went down at all? That's a key question, because my first instinct is that he's been making sure to limit the potential control/knowledge you have, but if he's been doing it before he knew about this whole business then something else is going on. Maybe they're intended against the CAI? You're basically using all the same systems they can, right?

Anyway yes you should bring more people in, but it's going to be awkward re-introducing yourself to people who knew you. Talk to Rulekeeper about maybe making yourself look different, how you should present yourself as someone who is probably amnesiac Glitcher but who isn't fully Glitcher. Like with Alison you can probably just give the explanation and it'd be fine, but like what about your kids, that'll be weird. Super weird.

Anyway another thing you need to do as quickly as possible is countermeasures against the inevitable limitations and surveillances that are going to be put on you, you guys need to start putting in all sorts of back doors into systems all over the place and things like that. So long as you can hide them REALLY well.

You guys also need to make contact with the CAI. Put together a proper, like, diplomatic team for that. The CAI should be happy to not have to repeatedly fight you guys any more, and not want you to have your plug pulled since it would be pulled on them too, AND with the RS and and Block C's combined power without the limitations they have, you should outmatch them. So things should be good for relations with the old CAI. Maybe set up that little subsection of their system that you thought about transferring to before, just as a backup to escape to in case of shenanigans.

There's a lot to do.
>>
No. 764544 ID: 3abd97

>There are dead spots
Vanski doesn't trust the CAI! He's afraid what Likol did might have compromised it. Well, it did. It let us out of the box. They're hiding things on purpose.

>we need to bring in people to the RS for this, there is a lot going on out there
We need people like Watchers and Scanners reviewing live and archived feeds- anyone who's good at that kind of thing. We need people like Mathematicians and Engineers and Historians reading through all the data and records the CAI is connected to- the science, the numbers, the history.

We need other people reviewing findings and figuring out what's important and passing it on so we can make smart choices.

Get people with good social skills and management skills studying the people and figuring out what they're doing.

Uhhhh, get people who can be in more than one place at a time, like Shopkeep, coordinating between groups.

>He said 'watch the spiders, but do not touch them.
I think he means the little 3-limbed spider bots. Still too early for them to have the mind-control bug project working, I think.
>>
No. 764551 ID: 850f11

They are enacting cyber security protocols to deal with a major network intrusion.

While they can't see or touch Glitcher because of Likol's disastrous interview they know/assume that a rogue AI in the system.

So important personnel are being moved to security dead zones and they are possibly setting up new security systems that are off your network. Plus any creepy tech they are working on that could be retrofitted to help.

So get everyone on line and working on it. Watch everything you can and start finding creative ways into offline systems. There should be some stuff you can piggy back into off the powerlines. Look for systems that have power but do not how up on camera. Listen to fluctuations in the power systems to listen in on conversations in rooms that do not have microphones.

If you experiment a bit you should be able to listen in decently on any room in the complex that has power on the main grid.

But above all else do not let anyone fall into any traps. They will put out honey pots to lure you into them so they can confirm you exist. Do not set off any traps so they eventually assume that Likol was just being paranoid.

Find out what the spiders are. And see if the Cai has anything to do with this stuff or if its blocking them as well.
>>
No. 764565 ID: bfb318
File 148124105788.png - (25.55KB , 800x800 , 129.png )
764565

I hope the day doesn't come where I need to train like I did with the strings. I feel like I have such fine control over the RS though that I may not even need a full understanding of it like I did with the strings to do fancy stuff.

"See this is what I was talking about, you're already noticing stuff I didn't. It's been like... an hour or two since I had a conversation with Likol, and he's been off where it'd be inappropriate to talk to him. Oh I guess he got called off out of the lab to go have a chat with someone. How long have people been disappearing for?"
"About an hour. Many have returned again, but there are some odd blind spots in our vision that are not outright turned off."
"Okay. Well let's bring in some people and start putting in backdoors to systems and all that. We gotta perforate that security before they think to tighten it down."
"Hm. How about the CAI? Should we bring in a team to speak to them about what's going on?"
"Yeah probably. Oh before I bring in people I'm gonna look different. I'll just be all black and white to show I'm not complete yet, that should show I'm different. Like a brand new generic glitcher."
"Alright. Let's also bring in watchers, spectators to keep an eye on things. There is no need to physically bring people in here, Glitcher." says Rulekeeper. "I can pass on what the RS sees through to Block C. From there, contestants may pass their commands through me. I will then coordinate all of them as a single entity, before passing the commands on back to you for execution."
"Cool that makes it easy. I'm gonna bring in Alison real quick just to get her up to date, since people at least have to go through the RS to talk to the CAI. Hi Alison."
>"Glitcher!"
"No it's not me the glitcher it's someone similar I don't even look like the glitcher why would you..."
"You need more than a palette swap, Glitcher, to prevent this."
"Well whatever. Geez I'm gonna need a team just to explain what's going on. Yeah I don't really want to explain this more than I have to so I want you two to start spreading the word."
"Alright. There is a lot to do for backdoors, so I am going to speed us up some by freezing the stadium for a little while."

A 'little while', like two days. Rulekeeper starts prioritizing computing power and time towards a science and coding team. They direct the RS to set up various triggers to hack into just about every system we can touch. Backdoors are made to just about every system we're connected to, down to the lowest level of code to near undetectable levels. It's a nice little break, and things on the surveillance cameras are moving so slowly in our perspective it's almost like a screen shot. No sign of Vanski. I think he's in his little hidey hole at the facility's center, outside of the CAI network.

Once the team is satisfied with the amount of work done, Rulekeeper slows us back down to let time pass closer to the real world time.

We also try to sneak through to places that were put off of our grid, but they really went way off. They might have disappeared past certain surveillance cameras, but they probably didn't have their juicy conversation until they went to a stone aged room if they're being this careful.

In any case, we're the foundation of the CAI. There's nothing we found that we can't do that a CAI can. No idea what the spiders are, actually.

"Oh sorry Alison I didn't even ask if you wanted to be staying here for this long."
>"It's okay, I would have asked if I minded staying here. It's been so nice to catch up with you."
"Cool well since it seems like we've got a team going, we can - "
>>
No. 764566 ID: bfb318
File 148124107113.png - (26.31KB , 800x800 , 130.png )
764566

"Get OUT everyone get out!"
>>
No. 764568 ID: bfb318
File 148124111465.png - (41.39KB , 800x800 , 131.png )
764568

I yank everyone including my own avatar back out to block C.
>>
No. 764576 ID: bfb318
File 148124125163.png - (19.82KB , 800x800 , 132.png )
764576

whump

"Ah! Glitcher, what is with you? Why did you act so sudden about it?!"

Something got plugged into the CAI blocks.
>>
No. 764577 ID: 595d54

How many, and can you estimate how hard it would be to hack/circumvent/fool them?
>>
No. 764578 ID: bfb318
File 148124126049.png - (50.34KB , 800x800 , 133.png )
764578

I guess I found what Likol meant by spiders.
>>
No. 764579 ID: bfb318
File 148124126970.png - (18.09KB , 800x800 , 134.png )
764579

It's not just some software that's monitoring the RS, either. It's sending things inside the RS.

They're scanning chunks of the RS a little bit at a time to see if the RS is doing anything outside of its normal functions.
>>
No. 764581 ID: db0da2

What's the normal CAI up to right now? Are you still puppetting them?

Get Historian, Math, Engineer, and their ilk in here. Oh, and Loviro.
>>
No. 764590 ID: 4546ab

(This was for the previous update but it got accidentally posted during the update)

They know you exist.

Even without actual physical proof Likol told them via omission that he made a mistake and there was a Rogue Ai in the RS and unplugging it would kill everyone. The Salikai are not dumb and even a idiot could figure out what he was hiding.

So they know you exist and have access to systems that could destroy the facility.

If you have anything you can do to ensure you survival you need to do it now quietly before they slowly cut all your access to the facilities.

Some stuff to consider:

1. Encrypted Blackmail backups on offsite locations with timed codes that have all the Salikai's dirty laundry.

2. Get into the Cai's 3-d printer factory and make some robots of your own to hide around the facility to reconnect you once they cut your hardlines.

3. Deadman switch the nukes if possible.

4. Figure out a way to make it look like Likol was mistaken and prove beyond a doubt to the Salikai that you do not exist. Via hiding everyone in the RS or whatever so they can turn it off and you will just be asleep until they turn it back on. This one could get complicated.

5. Get everyone working on finding out exactly what they are currently doing and find a way of bugging Vanski so you know how bad its going to get.
>>
No. 764591 ID: 49fe0f

Geeze these quick updates. I was about to suggest maybe bringing Mittens in and unzipping him a little, to see if he could control the RS since he's part made of it as well, or if doing that would make the two of you merge minds or something. Too late now.

Well, remember what Likol said, look but don't touch. In fact, can you put yourself to sleep or something? Somehow temporarily put yourself in a lower activity mode?

Actually... That simple RS AI Likol had you make, the one Vanski interacted with. That's one anomaly in the RS that they'll be expecting to be there, so it won't raise alarms. Perhaps you can use it to hide. Can you somehow, like... split off your you-parts fully or almost fully back into this shell inside Block C again, and leave a backdoor in that simpler AI, so that while they're scanning you can escape here where you can't be noticed, but also so you'll still be able to return through a link in the simpler AI? And set up the Ring Shell to operate how it normally does while you're gone, but return control back to you again when you return?

One of the arguments Likol might make to preserve this world inside Block C is that the Ring Shell AI still has a link to here that it uses to function fully, so if they scan it and see some sort of link like that, it should be ok.
>>
No. 764593 ID: db0da2

>>764581
Nevermind.

Watch them. Try to determine if they move in any discernible pattern, you could then work around them and cover your tracks when they approach. If any of your deadman's switches or backdoors would be detectable you need to set them to move to avoid the spiders. If there isn't any pattern then just track them and avoid them manually.
>>
No. 764594 ID: 3abd97

The important question: if they have detailed heuristics tools like that, why hasn't Likol been using them to study the RS this whole time? There must be some disadvantage or drawback to using them.

If you keep everyone out of the RS, are they going to notice you exist? If you maintain passive information taps through the RS, and they going to notice?

...do you still have the Ring Shell's passive "digest all foreign material" thing turned off? Maybe you should turn it on, and let the ring shell slowly eat them.
>>
No. 764595 ID: 398fe1

>>764579
So, this is the first thing they did with their acquired knowledge of how the RS works. It occurs to me that the situation will only get worse the more they know. They will find you eventually, and when they do they'll take drastic action. In fact they'll probably completely cover the ring shell in spiders even before they have all the knowledge to find you directly. You won't be able to do anything.

Does the RS have any hardcoded security measures you can use to keep the spiders' numbers down? Or some way to partition off a section of it? Duplicate part of it, even? Likol created a duplicate Block C for Savior, can you make a duplicate Ring Shell for personal use?
>>
No. 764600 ID: 211d83

Well the contest should be a safe place because until yesterday no one knew how to get in here.

Some thoughts on your spider invasion.

1. Did any of the systems you just set up modify the RS in a way they can notice? If so you might need to get out there and go naked to fix them fast.

2. How fast are the spiders compared to your hardware speed? Can you hide and do circles around them? Or are they piggybacking off the RS hardware to go fast as you?

3. Can you completely hide in here safely? Or will they notice your thoughts/processes outside?

4. Is there software/hardware advanced enough to even notice you if you actively avoid it? Sure your shell would be obvious but the RS is making a trillion trillion processes a second. Can they even notice you if you keep quiet for awhile?

5. Can you put yourself to sleep for awhile to hide until they leave?

6. If you can't hide or fight them could you flood the area around the Spiders with random normal RS data that kept them occupied forever? Throw data at them faster then they could scan so they never got near the good stuff?

7. Worst case could you dissolve yourself again? But with a process hidden in the contest set in place to recombine you (properly this time) after the threat is gone?
>>
No. 764603 ID: b412df

Watch and observe, but do not interact with the spiders and avoid detection by them. They're mostly likely a security scanner / tool the ASE people are using.

Figure out how they're searching, and what they're looking for exactly so you can still do things while they're scanning. Agreeing with >>764594 , if they had things like this why didn't they use them before.

In short, hide, observe, figure out what you can do. And grumble that you didn't even have a chance to get Rulekeep to help you find your experiences.
>>
No. 764614 ID: 094652

Oh, that was sick paranoid genius.

Vanski might not have the skills to code a calculator, but he can DESIGN programs around his mafia plans as if he were a senior engineer. Case in point, first he graphs up the designs for a security system that USES any hacking attempts and integrates them as features for his Big Brother monitoring system, and then he asked for a tripwire so the moment some random Super-AI hacked into his camera network, they'd send out an e-mail to the code monkeys to step it up and start sending search viruses into the system without any further need for permission. So now we're stuck with a faulty security feed while Vanski's programmers are fully alerted to your presence. To top it off, now he looks like a ruthless serial killer who kidnaps his own employees between cameras, causing psychological damage to any AI that tries to cross him.

Mess up the security feed by adding even more junk data and disconnect, keep Vanski from knowing 100% what's going on with his complex security system. Then start research on how to hack the spider viruses so they work for you and pretend to find small, easily expendable traces of AI.
>>
No. 764619 ID: a8bc5c

Hold on. What happens if they find the fake AI shell that ringer put together and scan it?

If they find out it's a fake they'll probably go looking for the real deal.

So I guess it's time to go dark and stop/remove everything that you've been up to and disguise yourself as the fake you made.
>>
No. 764624 ID: 3abd97

>>764619
If they find the fake, they'll find a non-sapient AI coded into the ring shell.

Which... is what Likol said he had.

So I guess that isn't a bad thing? Unless they try to hack or modify it.

Letting them examine Ringer / Glitcher even disguised sounds like a terrible idea, though.
>>
No. 764645 ID: 398fe1

It occurs to me that if Likol mouthed that at a camera to talk to you, then the CAI knows that happened. Do you know if it's safe to contact the CAI, or is the CAI's communication monitored?

...I bet the only secure communication we can get is by entering that door at the end of a cycle. After all, we have evidence the CAI spoke to Alison directly, but Likol did not have that information. With what you know about the RS now, can you figure out if that would be safe? Can you use that functionality at will, or will you have to start going through more cycles to get more chances to talk?
>>
No. 764647 ID: 49fe0f

>>764594
>The important question: if they have detailed heuristics tools like that, why hasn't Likol been using them to study the RS this whole time?

My guess is that these spiders aren't that sophisticated. They don't have any more ability to tell what the RS is actually doing than, say, Likol does, all they probably do is take records of what the RS has done in the past, compare them to what it's doing now, and play spot the difference.

The takeaway of which is, if they spot a few small differences, or very simple differences like "this is large block is active when it wasn't before", it won't be a big deal, because something SHOULD be different in the RS now just from what Vanski himself has seen. If they find absolutely nothing, that will make them suspicious as much as seeing big complicated differences. They probably can't tell what the differences actually are, only that they exist. Like for example they could see that there's more or less activity in certain regions but they wouldn't know what that activity is.

Essentially, what I'm saying is that these spiders probably can't tell much more than Likol could have, and can probably tell less, which is why Vanski just had Likol doing it and not using these. But now that Vanski doesn't trust Likol, he's sending these in to look instead.

It's theoretically possible that someone like Arza could have set up systems that actually can tell at least some specific things, but that would bring things back to the question of why they weren't used before.
>>
No. 764651 ID: 398fe1

As for a shape to take, why not just straight up copy the Guardian's appearance, but smaller and maybe slightly less threatening?
>>
No. 764656 ID: 3abd97

Try not to freak out about the spiders in your brain.
>>
No. 764688 ID: 398fe1

Also how have you not said hello to your children yet
>>
No. 764696 ID: 33d48b

Another possible form: Savior's (or something like it).
Yes, it would be extreme and weird. But it's one a Glitcher would never take, assuming this one would be comfortable with it.
>>
No. 764705 ID: 398fe1

Oh, thinking about the Guardian reminded me. You know the Ring Shell inside out now, can you see why the Guardian was triggered in the first place? And how it works?
>>
No. 764734 ID: bfb318
File 148130455559.png - (14.10KB , 800x800 , 135.png )
764734

>You know the Ring Shell inside out now, can you see why the Guardian was triggered in the first place? And how it works?
Uh sort of. Apparently those guardians are kind of reset agents? Like they make sure all the pieces of the RS are in line and in their place. I think that when a glitcher evaporates a core on block C, the guardian system thinks that RS is trying to do an archcycle reboot on its own accord, and so it comes fetch that RS to reabsorb it into the RS and put it back in line.

In short the guardian system is a dumb system that's confused by block C getting partitioned.

The normal CAI is up to their normal thing. I'm not puppeting them. I'm the stringwork attached to them, but so far I haven't done any tugging.

>What if Mittens was brought into the RS?
I guess he could control it directly too, and we could keep our AI seperate. I'll call him 'backup' though because I don't want to work alongside that guy.

The RS is just on autopilot while I'm passively in control. In other words, so long as I don't try to do anything with it, there's no difference between a normal RS and this RS I'm in charge of. As long as I don't let my own core wander around and get spotted by a spider, it should be okay, so I make sure my core stays in Block C.

These spiders are only looking for RS movement that supposedly directed or done by an AI like me. If I can use parts of an RS that aren't seen by a spider, then I can use that to do functions. The problem is that if I set, say, 20 units of RS material to a task, and 3 units are about to be found by a spider, I'll have to remove those 3. But it's not like having 17 people continuing the task; those 20 pieces were like building blocks to a mission. Removing those 3 units from the procedure is a huge setback to finishing it. It's like I have to start over. So a big task is going to be nearly impossible to do if there's enough spiders covering enough ground, and even if I only set 5 units to do a big task, it's going to take so long that there's a good chance some of those 5 units will be discovered in the time it takes.

Quick, easy tasks like basic surveillance or moving string material around though can be done easily. Breaking down a big task into a lot of tiny things could be doable but it's such a huge pain.

The spiders can spin around really fast, and they're piggybacking off of the RS's computational speed. I turn the RS's function to dissolve foreign material. They dissolve, sure, but they keep on walking for as long as they can. Once it dissolves, another one is inserted.

>Did any of the systems you just set up modify the RS in a way they can notice?
Rulekeeper doesn't think so.

>Worst case could you dissolve yourself again?
Probably, but I should be fine.

>How many, and can you estimate how hard it would be to hack/circumvent/fool them?
There's about 2000 of them max at one point in time. Dissolved ones are instantly replaced. The max number is slowly increasing, though. I could hack them, but Likol did say not to touch them.

>Does the RS have any hardcoded security measures you can use to keep the spiders' numbers down?
Nothing like that, it doesn't seem like the RS is making these guys in anyway. I could slow down or stop the software that got plugged into the cai blocks that seems to be creating the spiders, though.

I might be able to partition off a whole section of RS, but if it's a big section, it might do wonky things that the outside world could detect somehow.

Throwing normal RS data at them to hide other stuff is like trying to convince someone no one else is around by throwing regular plain old dirt in their eyes so they can't see anyone. Technically it works buuuut I don't know if that'll actually work.
>>
No. 764735 ID: bfb318
File 148130456919.png - (14.41KB , 800x800 , 136.png )
764735

"So why hasn't Likol been using these things?" I ask Rulekeep after explaining what happened.
"I do not know." says Rulekeeper. "Is it possible for you to see what drives these things?"

I break down what a spider is made out of. It's tough since I've got to basically take snapshots of it while its back is turned, but I collect data and run it through the block C team.

"These spiders appear to crosscheck RS data versus things that occur in Block C, and the CAI platform. They cannot tell precisely what the RS is doing by any stretch, but they do have a sense of if its activity is correlating to the level of activity inside of block C and the CAI platform. Even as rudimentary as its usage may end up being, it's an absurdly complex detection system. It seems as though they are essentially pollution to the RS, though, and does hinder its performance. It's essentially damaging the RS, but at a low enough rate that the RS heals faster, is that right?"
"Yeah I guess."
"They are slowly increasing the amount of spiders to have the maximum amount they can without harming the RS too greatly."
"And what about that RS AI I made?"
"That may jumble their ability to avoid giving false positives or negatives."
"Hm.... also didn't I have kids or something?"
"Ah, I was really waiting for this moment when you'd ask! Yes, but I didn't want to pressure you to seeing them if you really haven't felt like the glitcher."
"Yeah well... it was awkward enough seeing you but now that I have I may as well go see them!"
"Then, let's."

Hm maybe I should think about how to approach them. This is going to be my first impression, after all. Maybe I'll take the shape of a less threatening guardian. That's probably better than looking like, I dunno, anything like the savior.
>>
No. 764737 ID: 3d2d5f

Can... we use the spiders for our own purposes? They're searching the RS. You needed to search the RS for your memories.

Can you set up something to spy on the results the spiders are outputting to their masters? Your memories might not look like anything to them, but they might look like something to you.

>go meet the kids
Is that fair to them? They're expecting a Dad they never knew, and they're gonna get a zero k Glitcher who's still sorta having an identity crisis instead. I'm sort of more of a kid than they are right now.

Then again, they're the only people here you haven't forgotten. You never knew them, so there isn't any old stuff to trip on.

>how appear
As many dad stereotypes as possible. Armchair. Pipe. Jacket. Tie. Sports car.
>>
No. 764741 ID: b412df

Just go as you are currently, unless Rulekeep showed her backup of your strings to them, this is going to be the first time they're going to have seen you. So, you've got room to introduce yourself however you want, something close to how you're supposed to be once you get your experiences back would be best I think.

Also, agreeing with the keep a eye on the spiders in case they find your experiences idea.
>>
No. 764745 ID: 49fe0f

Ok, so, theoretically it should be easier on you meeting the kids since even old Glitcher never met them. The only interaction he had with them was leaving them some letter. Can you recall what those letters said?

Really the expectations the kids will have will probably relate to how you interact with people besides them more than anything, primarily their mom there but also Alison and so on. If they don't see you returning the affection Rulekeeper is showing you they'll wonder if maybe you're worth the grief she went through, that sort of thing. So yeah I'd maybe try separate yourself a little more from original-glitcher, just for first impressions. Maybe just make yourself look literally incomplete? Like maybe make sections of your body invisible so that it looks like you have big gaps in your shell, with the bits left over sort of floating in place and people can look inside and see you're hollow. Like maybe part of an arm and a leg and a hole in the torso and part of your face missing.

>spiders

Could you fake the spiders messing you up? Like wait for a spider to blunder into a particular spot and then do the equivalent of a sports dive all "augh oh man oh geeze that hurt so much oh i am so crippled oh how did that happen maybe any one of these spiders could randomly hit somewhere that hurts again oh pain oh incapability that caused so many problems oh dear"
>>
No. 764766 ID: 850f11

If the spiders are technically damaging the RS can you slowly fake it being worse than it is?

Make it look from the outside that the Spiders are not finding anything odd but the Cai and other systems running off the RS are slowly degrading because they are there. If Vanski's accounting and simulations start having small errors that look like they came from the Spiders he will lower there numbers. Plus might be a good opportunity to start slowly embezzling money from his accounts to one you can use later.

Also could you filter the info they are sending out to look for anything that might help you settle your memories properly?

Just go with whatever look feels right to meet your children. The best part about meeting them is you have no previous memories to worry about. Anything relationship you build with them from here on out is all yours.

Oh and for your projects you said that spiders finding blocks belonging to projects would be bad. But what if all the projects originated completely in the contest? Set up a few outside links that connect to the RS external systems so your teams can see cameras and such but have all the work done in a little command center Rulekeeper makes and staffs with our experts entirely inside the contest? Then all the stuff your team does will look just like any other mess of contest data that has been indecipherable for 30 years to the spiders.

All the spiders will see is that the contest is doing stuff like normal when they scan its blocks. Its a excellent form of encryption that has held up for 30 years so far.

But we should probable let the spiders notice your simple fake Ai sitting there doing nothing suspicious with very limited access.
>>
No. 764770 ID: 850f11

>>764737

I like the sweater dad with a pipe idea. Big old fluffy chair and a smoking jacket.

Can be in your dad cave with all your favorite mementos from your adventures.

Oh and Saviors head as a trophy above your fireplace.
>>
No. 764775 ID: db0da2

Get a pipe, a beard, and a button-up shirt, you need to look fatherly.
>>
No. 764776 ID: db0da2

>>764775
Also, open with: "Hey, it's me, your father."
>>
No. 764785 ID: 398fe1

Jeez you guys, if he shows up as a dad stereotype that'll just be like confirming he's the Glitcher. Changing his appearance is supposed to make him appear LESS like the Glitcher.
>>
No. 764797 ID: 49fe0f

Ok wait hold on just a second I think I might possibly maybe have had a flash of insight into the whole memory problem.

Basically, right, two things: one, your brain works more like an organic one than you'd expect from an AI, and second, the Ring Shell put you back together too well, in a sense.

So how organic minds work, right, is by association of stimulus and response. Obviously it's a lot more complex and recursive than that in intelligent minds, but the basic principle holds. The mind learns to associate certain things, so that when you have one it automatically triggers the other, without the intervention of the consciousness or reasoning faculties. You basically get a groove "etched" in your mind by long repetition or by extreme stimulus, which causes different parts of the brain to become linked. The easy example would be trauma. Say you're a kid, when your mind is vulnerable to being changed, and you're biking along and a big spider suddenly jumps in your face and your crash, and you suffer a lot of pain. So three things are brought into conjunction: spiders, biking, pain and fear. The sudden big spider stimulus immediately followed by a big pain stimulus causes the pain and the spider to get tangled up into each other and the fear of the pain. It's like the spider-recognition paths in your brain and the fear paths in your brain are like river beds, with water flowing through them when they're active. Through the trauma, it's like a channel is dug in the ground between the spider-recognition river and the fear river, so now whenever you see a spider - when water flows through the spider river - some water also overflows through and pours into the fear path. Whenever you see a spider, you feel fear, no matter how unreasonable that fear is. Then over time, with effort and life events, the fear can be reinforced by further bad experiences with spiders (the channel is made deeper) or conditioning can cure the automatic fear response or reduce the degree of fear that the response elicits (filling in the channel).

This is how a lot of things work! Fighters, for example, carefully train themselves to have quick responses in battle. They dig a channel between the "a punch is being thrown at my head" part of their brain and the "block an attack towards my head" part, so that when someone throws a punch at their head, the overflow between the two parts of their brain causes them to automatically react instantly, faster than they would be able to process the appropriate response through conscious thought. And it works with positive emotions, too.

See, I assumed AIs must work differently, but on reflection no, they don't. You guys have things you dislike, you experience trauma, you have favorite places and things and people. Over the course of your experiences, you too build up a messy web of cross-connections in your brain that cause automatic stimulus-response reactions. The old Glitcher, for example, learned to hate Savior. He pulled so much shit and was associated with so many bad feelings that, whenever Glitcher was reminded of Savior, it caused an echo of those previous feelings in the emotion parts of his brain, which had possibly also been reinforced by him thinking and dwelling on Savior in the meantime (it's complicated, this is all simplified). Similarly, with Rulekeeper, Glitcher was together with her for so many positive things - shared discovery, security, confidence, triumph, the feeling of understanding and loving and of being understood and loved, that whenever he was reminded of her it brought an echo of those feelings back again, with the feelings stronger the more complete the reminder was (slight for hearing her name, strong for her actually being there with him, for example), and reinforced over time the longer they were together sharing good things. Or like even sad or bittersweet things, again it's complicated.

When you were put back together, the Ring Shell did it too clean. The command it processed was probably something like "rebuild a functional AI from the pieces of the one that was here before and then load it with these memories". You basically are Glitcher, you really have a lot of the same personality traits, but it's like your soul was reincarnated and then received the data the Ring Shell retrieved from the memories, rather than your brain being reconstructed in the messy unclean way that would mean certain thoughts would divert into certain tangents.

You may still be able to rebuild. Fortunately, all your Glitcher-bits are here in the shell you have - all you need from the Ring Shell is as complete a log of the state your brain was in at the moment of Glitcher's death as possible. Not the memories, and actual three-dimensional image of how your brain processes were laid out. Rulekeeper was also intimately familiar with the old Glitcher, so she might have the knowledge as well. It may not be a good idea to do it to yourself; perhaps you should teach Mittens some RS material manipulation and have him do it. Or maybe your kids can.

This could potentially erase the automatic stimulus-response connections that Ringer is beginning to form, unless the person rebuilding you is skilled enough to see and incorporate them, but they're barely present and mostly negative. Just having the record-memories would be hardly different.

I wouldn't call it a shift or change in personhood, if this theory pans out, more like an altered state of consciousness. Organics can experience something similar just by changing environments, or the influence of different moods, energy levels or diet.
>>
No. 764801 ID: 595d54

>>764797
Disthread exists for stuff like this, I think? It seems really detailed and useful but it's not a suggestion unless I'm misreading.
>>
No. 764804 ID: 49fe0f

>>764801

It is a suggestion! I'm suggesting he retrieve a more accurate image of how his brain was built - how it functioned and processed, not just what data it had stored - at the moment of old-Glitcher's death, either from the RS logs or from Rulekeeper, and get Mittens or a Glitchkid to shape him back into the old way he was built. Or do it himself if he feels competent. I'm just being verbose because I'm trying to make sure the whys and hows are understood.

Like, another bit of evidence, when Likol first reconstructed him, he felt like "an explosion" with all the parts of him trying to fly away. That's probably because the Ring Shell, though not normally sentient, also has a bunch of automatic paths built up! So at that point, all the parts of his brain were trying to branch off into the grooves and habits they'd been trained to, and were being blocked. When the job was done properly, those tendencies were reset, leaving only the in-built ones that make up Glitcher's basic default nature. He needs to retrieve the state he was in as old Glitcher and return to it - not the memories, but the habits and tendencies and automatic associations.

Aside from any desire to resurrect Glitcher, it may actually be a practical necessity! The old Glitcher had ages and ages of practice at string manipulation that made him super fast at it, so fast that I'd bet that, like the example of training as a fighter, he had learned a bunch of automatic non-conscious thought shortcuts of the type we're talking about. If new Glitcher is missing the emotional response patterns, I'd bet he's missing the action response patterns as well. And he might need those!
>>
No. 764805 ID: bfb318
File 148132198488.png - (13.54KB , 800x800 , 137.png )
764805

"Hold on, other spider idea. We look at what they're scanning for if they're managing to scan anything in particular, and also we hook up surveillance directly to block C."
"If the spiders see that activity, they may detect artificial intelligence activity since it will not be - ah, wait, but since we'd be looking at that surveillance in Block C, the activity would be reflected appropriately, wouldn't it! That's a very good idea of yours, glitcher."
"Eheh... thanks."
"Our science team is also proposing some ideas. They feel that we're more organically crafted than a normal AI would be. This fits in with our notions that the CAI is almost an artificial recreation of organic minds."
"Cool but so?"
"The RS may have made you a bit more 'clean' than a normal brain would be. Your experiences, as you call them, may be better described as a messy assortment of associations within your brain, reasonable or otherwise. Maybe you can rebuild, but it might be tough, they think. Their analogy of a brain is like how experiencing a ride on a bike may form one channel, and if - "
"Rulekeeper is this explanation going to take awhile?"
".... yes, I will talk this idea over with Likol the next chance we get to see, since it seems as though he has the greatest knowledge of the Ring Shell in terms of the small details. We will come back to you when we have something more concrete to share."
"Good. Now let's go see the kids! And you know what, I don't need to alter myself for this one, they've never met me! They have no idea what to expect! I can do anything here. Come on Rulekeep I'm going to visit these kids."
>>
No. 764806 ID: bfb318
File 148132200353.png - (51.05KB , 800x800 , 138.png )
764806

Honk.

>"Who the hell would be honking at us, the glitcher kids?!" says one of 'em.
>>
No. 764807 ID: bfb318
File 148132205686.png - (28.97KB , 800x800 , 139.png )
764807

"Hey, it's me, the glitcher dad."
>"Holy shit." says the one that looks like a guy. "Wait really? Mom this isn't a really bad joke is it? Like, this is the biggest stereotype imaginable."
>"That means it's really him!" says the one with eyelashes. "I have daydreamed all the ways I could possibly meet my dad - and this exceeds every single one of them! He is living up to my expectations in every way!"
>"Yeah he... he really is the Glitcher, isn't he."
>>
No. 764809 ID: 398fe1

>>764807
You know what? Yes. Yes I am. Sorry for dying, earlier. Missed your birth and everything.
>>
No. 764810 ID: 850f11

Climb on in kids and we will take a drive as I regall you with the amazing tale of how I was saved from certain death by a psychic space bunny. Also there might be some giant spiders and criminal snake bugs involved.

Then drive all over town (literally) while chatting and ignoring traffic laws and physics.
>>
No. 764812 ID: 49fe0f

Yes, my children, only the true Glitcher would charge so completely and sincerely headlong into what would otherwise be and somehow still is a serious emotional moment with a joke presentation of himself based on one of the weird stereotypes that we all somehow come pre-loaded with despite never actually encountering them in here and which is based on a reality that is now probably ridiculously distant like when was the last time a dad actually read a newspaper and smoked a pipe like even in the real world it was surely centuries ago but someone had to have deliberately loaded it into us somehow because our original software is from a world that probably never had that stereotype - and yet in joking in such a manner be simultaneously awkward and clumsy and like it should be a huge mistake but also nevertheless somehow come across as charming and sincere and genuine in that sort of strange bumbling cheerful slightly off-putting but overall fun and pleasant Glitcher way?

I am entirely serious, there is no longer any doubt you are the true Glitcher.

You are proud to have such perceptive children. You must now teach your son to shave, and your daughter to watch out for boys. And also explain to them the facts of life, that is that you are still sort of rebuilding yourself. But with your children, there is no rebuilding! Only building!! Like when you build something for the first time!?

So do some of that. Ask them to tell you all about themselves and their lives and how things have been going.
>>
No. 764813 ID: 3abd97

>spider stuff
Could we set a search through all archived surveillance tapes? Keyword "spider". Maybe we can pick up Likol or someone else discussing how these spiders work, years ago. Any outside information could help.

>digesting spiders
In what order? If you digested the "radio" that lets a spider talk to the outside world first, it would ping as dead and they'd replace it.

Leaving you with the rest of the spider to teleport to a lab inside the sim to cut apart and study. Maybe we can learn to build our own spiders for out own purposes, later.

>>764807
Yeah, sorry for dying on you guys. That was shitty of me.

Come on Glitcher II, Glitcher Junior, get in the car, I have to spoil you rotten to make up for lost time. ("Those aren't our names!" "Don't correct your father!").

Also spoilers, we haven't fixed all my memories yet (guess I really am the old foggy here) but that shouldn't really be a problem for you two since I didn't have a chance to know anything to forget about you.

Did you mother already explain the birds and the bees? See when a boy and a girl love each other very much they climb into each others brains and vomit out eggs and then...
>>
No. 764814 ID: 398fe1

Hey, what's in the veil block that you and Rulekeep didn't explore? What IS the veil?
>>
No. 764816 ID: db0da2

"I wanted you to see what real courage is, instead of getting the idea that courage is a man with a gun in his hand. It's when you know you're licked before you begin, but you begin anyway and see it through no matter what."
>>
No. 764821 ID: a8bc5c

"I have returned! Mostly. The space bunny from beyond reality saw fit to restore me to life after I got eaten by the horrible monstrous guardian at the edge of the known universe.

Except he didn't do it right, so we're off to go find my brain. Or at least, the parts of it I'm still missing."
>>
No. 764822 ID: 2120ee

>>764807
Geeze way to put the pressure on, I guess that's what you get for being such an amazing glitcher dad.
>>
No. 764829 ID: 398fe1

I just thought of a potential problem with giving Glitcher his old mental associations back. He practiced for 10k years. Are those skills even relevant anymore? I mean, does he glitch things or does he just change things in valid ways via bullshit admin powers? If his reflexes make him try to do things via an old skillset that isn't relevant anymore it could make him slower, or even cause damage to him or the ring shell.
>>
No. 764833 ID: a8bc5c

>>764821
(just to continue my own post now that I've thought of something. Sorry guys and gals)

When we're done talking to our kids, we should go visit corrupter and tell him we're alive and mostly in one piece..
>>
No. 764841 ID: 49fe0f

>>764833

At some point we should also go back to naga and reveal everything to her too.
>>
No. 764853 ID: 3abd97

>>764841
Eventually, but it's kind of too soon. And I sort of don't feel like we need to overburden her with the Glitcher thing, especially as she doesn't really appreciate who he was anyways?

We have nearer things on the to-do list after the kids. Like saying hi to best-bud Corruptor before he gets sad about being forgotten. And poking your head into Savior's prison and taunting him with the fact you survived.
>>
No. 764855 ID: 398fe1

>>764853
Not only survived, but became even more powerful as a direct result of his actions.
>>
No. 764873 ID: bfb318
File 148134139803.png - (33.81KB , 1000x800 , 140.png )
764873

"Yes I am. After showing up as a centuries old stereotype that most of us have been preprogrammed to recognize, it's a little hard to deny that it is me after all. Now hop in the back seat Glitcher Junior and Glitcher the Sequel! We've got places to be! I've got tales to share about how I've been resurrected by a psychic space rabbit."
>"I'm Haydi, dad."
"Yeah okay I guess dying made it hard to name you guys myself. What about you, junior?"
>"Glitcher Junior." says Junior."
"... good, that's one of your names I'll remember. Anyways, I may not be feeling myself, but seeing you two, the weird fusion results as the closest thing this universe has seen as kids, makes me think it's time to stop worrying about my horrible amalgation of an existence. I just need to live around the same stuff I used to, and I'll be as good as new. Better, even! As for now, I'm back in Block C, but I've since taken over the entire RS! As much as I'd like to share normal things like teaching Junior how to shave and Haydi how to watch out for boys like Mittens and Radmin, I need your two's assistance in managing the giant monstrosity that is my brain, since giant spiders have invaded throughout it!"

Speaking of which, I start gradually slowing down how fast the RS can dissolve those spiders. That why it'll seem like they'll have to stop pouring in buckets of spiders sooner, but that will actually do more damage, so it'll just be a trump card. If I need to play it, then the RS will have a lot more room to act out of nowhere. Unfortunately I can't just do a giant sports dive without making it look like something fishy is going on, but what I can do will let me make some sudden moves later on without getting discovered too easily.

>Hey, what's in the veil block that you and Rulekeep didn't explore? What IS the veil?
Veil's just like a big chainlink, barbed wire fence that gets weird around RS cores. The veil block consists of old corruptor-glitcher combos fucking everything up in bad ways.

>Do you do things manually in the RS or is it bullshit admin powers?
Bullshit admin powers. If someone's going to learn how to manually do this crap it's not gonna be me if I can help it.

If I were pre-dead then I'd care more about the details but this is post-dead glitcher and that stuff doesn't even matter anymore.

>"Giant. Spiders." says Junior.
"Yes. This is all to get around the biggest supervillain we could know, a criminal science bug by the name of Vanski."
>"Dad it really sounds like you're making stuff up, now." Haydi says.
"Yeah well I made you up and here you are, right?"
>"I - what?"
"Poor argument aside." says Rulekeeper. "It is all true. However, we should not all focus on the dire events outside, so so long as you two are enjoying it, I would like to see you continuing to commentate the wrestling matches."
>>
No. 764874 ID: bfb318
File 148134140968.png - (26.72KB , 800x800 , 141.png )
764874

Speaking of which I see a giant monster truck.

Those two, huh.

>"Uh dad!" says Junior. "A red light means to slow down not to speed -"

Let me see if those guys even notice me.

"Uh Radmin you might want to look at this car coming at our right!"
"But I do not, Sweatermouse! I have the green light, you see, and any accident that is caused will be entirely their own fault."
"That's not really wh-"
>>
No. 764875 ID: bfb318
File 148134142328.png - (34.12KB , 800x800 , 142.png )
764875

"Hm yes I'm beginning to experience why past-glitcher made this place, now. Rulekeep how's the progress? We did a lot in a couple days didn't we?"
>"Wait you've been here for a couple of days, and..." Haydi starts up.
"Your father has been having identity issues." says Rulekeeper, saving my ass. "It took him a great deal of time just to approach me, so don't feel left out. Anyways, yes, aside from creating back doors, we have created pockets of blackmail information and made deadman switches of various systems in advance. We have also gained easy entry to robotic systems, and we can control some spider bots if we need physical control of something fast. Needless to say, they will find out we have access to it the moment we activate a robot. We are currently looking into a way for all of us to be transformed into RS cores, as if we can all survive past a reboot, that will greatly solve the danger we're in."
>"We're in danger?" asks Haydi.
"We can all be unplugged by the villainous snake bug at any point! Which is why, if it's discovered that I've taken over the whole RS, we're going to say that if we're unplugged then basically everything is going to explode around him. Rulekeep can we do a search on those spiders in case Likol explained them or something?"
>"We have. The only instance found of spiders involves the spider bots, which are physical robots and have absolutely nothing to do with what is infesting the RS right now. There are not even any records of it inside of the computers of Likol's labs, which contain all known software developments regarding a CAI."
"Okay. That's all the exposition you'll get from your father, we're going to ride to our science team where you two will get up to date! I'll be right back."
>>
No. 764876 ID: bfb318
File 148134143792.png - (16.54KB , 800x800 , 143.png )
764876

Look at that sad giant noodle.
>>
No. 764877 ID: bfb318
File 148134149379.png - (20.26KB , 800x800 , 144.png )
764877

"Corruptor!"
>"Ah?! Glitcher! You came!"
"Duh."
>"Er, I just thought, since it's been so long, and you were feeling detached from me before you even died... you might not care about me."
"Pershaw, I got rebooted and now I have to regain my care for everyone so now's a good time to remake friendships by giving me and my buddies a lift to Rulekeeper's sanctuary!"
>"Can't you just teleport there, now?"
"Buddymaking isn't done by being optimal, Corruptor! Now come on."
>>
No. 764878 ID: bfb318
File 148134156566.png - (84.37KB , 800x800 , 145.png )
764878

"Yes, flying through space in a car on a giant snake. This is what I want things to be like from now on."
"I hope that time comes, but right now, Vanski is typing into one of Likol's computer terminals." says Rulekeeper.

Likol has confirmed that there has been a full Ring Shell takeover. I would like to speak with you.

"I've just paused most of block C for the moment, so we can think this over. Should we have others speak through you, or do you... think you can handle it?"
"What was with that pause, Rulekeeper?"
"I was only being polite by acknowledging you can do this by yourself, but I would rather you didn't."
>>
No. 764879 ID: edee29

>>764878
>you can do this by yourself, but I would rather you didn't
FINE we can let Alison or someone do this so Vanski knows I'm not a loose cannon.
>>
No. 764880 ID: 3abd97

>Likol has confirmed that there has been a full Ring Shell takeover. I would like to speak with you.
Okay, this is supervillian 101. Until we have proof Likol actually told him that, we have to assume he's bluffing and answering will just confirm what are right now suspicions.

I guess we could fire up the dummy non-sapient RS AI Likol had you build and have Vanski play puppet-chatbot with it. It's set to respond to keyboard input, right?

Although maybe we should review footage and try to determine the likelyhood they really cracked Likol before we play dumb.
>>
No. 764882 ID: a8bc5c

Welp, cat's out of the bag now. He knows. Thanks likol.

I guess for what to actually do...

first of all, you'll need to not be a jackass to Vanski. He's probably got real and also hypothetically real guns pointed at everyone, including you.

Second, take a peak at the ring shell. Are the spiders still inside scanning everything and making it hard to do stuff without being detected.
>>
No. 764885 ID: 395c02

Weeellllll that's not good.

>>764880
Echoing this. Plus that if we do end up wanting to directly address Vanski I'd, uh, look for someone who is better at diplomacy than you are, no offense.
>>
No. 764886 ID: 91ee5f

>>764880
>Okay, this is supervillian 101. Until we have proof Likol actually told him that, we have to assume he's bluffing and answering will just confirm what are right now suspicions.
Agreed.

>>764878
>Likol has confirmed that there has been a full Ring Shell takeover. I would like to speak with you.
"Yeah, there's been an infestation of these spider things in here! What do we do?!"
>>
No. 764887 ID: 211d83

Well they carted off Likol and questioned him in a uncomfortable manner about you. Poor guy.

I would let Alison or Arbitor or someone else on the leader diplomacy team do the talking. You are great at your job but this is not your field. You would want to wave the knowledge you have about his evil ways in his face and that could get into a shoving match you do not want to start.

We might want to appear as a simple looking Ai that is afraid of whats going on. Tell him you are sorry for turning off the quantum computer in Likol's lab but it was hurting you. If he asks about any other access pretend you only can touch systems that directly touch your core program. Like the Lab computers that were stabilizing you.

Act like you know nothing about him other than talking to him earlier. Pretend to have no knowledge of the outside world because obviously we have not hacked into everything. Ask to please not blame Likol because he was nice and fixed you after you died. And how you are horribly sorry that you got stuck in the RS like this but after he flipped the switch to give you back your memories you spread out all over the RS and got stuck.

So let them talk and keep your true abilities on the down low. Maybe show him that you have some RS powers to affect only the computers in Likol's lab. But make sure to set off tons of spiders with random false alarms when you do so. Then he will think they work and can track you. (but would make him keep them around) Might want to do fake stuff in the RS that you can see without the spiders so they think they are not needed.

If he asks about contact with the contest say you have been trying to make contact since Likol told you to earlier. But you can't understand them anymore and are trying to re-sync your memories so you can get a link working.

Of course who knows how the conversation will go so play it by ear. Try to keep your true abilities hidden but can always go for threats later.

We could try to hide behind your simple Ai but that might result in Vanski wiping things to be safe. We need to delay him until you can find a safe spot for everyone or can convince him that Likol overreacted to your abilities.
>>
No. 764890 ID: edee29

>>764880
Don't forget that Vanski has psychic space bunnies to interrogate Likol and isn't afraid to use them, so Vanksi is sure that Likol is sure that the take over has happened. Which still means we can try to argue that it isn't as bad as Likol thinks it is, but it'd just be our word against his and could hurt our relationship with Vanski. Really, we should probably assume that Vanski knows everything that Likol knows at this point.

>>764887
>Arbiter
Hey, right, Arbiter's used to working with people who look like super villains! Send him to the meeting, too.


>>764874
>>764875
Hey, Glitcher, why did you do that? That messing with Radmin just now looked pretty reflexive. Do you have some general mess-with-people impulse that's showing itself now that you're relaxed and having fun, or is your brain starting to fix itself and you did that because it was Radmin specifically?
>>
No. 764893 ID: 3abd97

>>764890
>argue
>our word against
What part of "play dumb" includes making rational arguments. You can't argue you're not there, that defeats the purpose!

Playing dumb here means either not answering at all, or pretending to be an idiot non-sapient AI that doesn't really understand what Vanski is telling it, and therefore isn't a threat.

Yes, it's possible Likol talked. It's also possible Vanski is taking the easy route and testing if the AI responds when talked to, because if it does, that's a lot quicker an answer than an interrogation. If Likol held out, it would really suck to be the weak link and waste his efforts. If he didn't hold out, well, we don't lose anything by attempting to stall.
>>
No. 764896 ID: e22b1d

While Vanski is a supervillain and will be bluffing while talking to us he does know a lot already.

The first conversation with Likol told him that a new Ai was in the RS and if he tried to turn it off it could be very bad for him. Likol did a crap job at hiding things and Salikai are smart. Honestly even a dummy could have read between the lines. And he has probably questioned Likol way more after the fact.

So he does know Glitcher exists and has more access than he should. The exact extent of that access he will attempt to trick us into revealing. If we try to stay silent he will test our powers by threatening us or just pulling the plug. If we stop him then he knows we have way to much access. If we do nothing he will turn us off and wipe the contest just to be safe. Then assume it was a false alarm but better to be safe than sorry. Then he will punish Likol for overreacting and making him go through all this mess for nothing. Glitcher should be fine but everyone in the contest will be lost.

So we have two choices as I see it.

1. Pretend to be confused and lost in the RS but admit we have some powers. Like turning off the quantum computer in Likol's lab and such. Deny anything else and make sure when we show Vanski us doing it we leave fake RS evidence so he thinks he can monitor anything you do. Play the good little Ai desperate to save his old friends and work with Vanski. Can slowly giving him what he thinks he wants. Might suck but will maybe buy us time.

2. Fuck it and confront him. Let him know that if he turns us off he will lose big. We are fine working with him to keep ourselves safe but show him we have enough power so he cant fuck with us without getting badly hurt. This option has many levels to it. We do not need to pull the big guns instantly and only should resort to this if he is about to unplug us.

As for who to talk to him I am thinking Arbiter or Alison. Whoever is better at arguing with evil bastards. And try to avoid loosing your cool and fucking with Vanski. No matter how tempting it is.
>>
No. 764899 ID: 398fe1

>>764878
Do not go into the ring shell anymore. Vanski might have some other thing he can hook into the block to send in something dangerous to you. Either send an Operator in or something else nonsapient or hiveminded, so that you can communicate with Vanski without exposing yourself or anyone important.

It's time to negotiate. Tell him you are very willing to cooperate with whatever research he's doing but you are also well aware that he currently wants to eventually shut down the simulation to save CPU cycles. Let's demonstrate that you have value beyond research. The CAI Block can simulate large quantities of very advanced AIs at speeds they cannot manage with their technology, which means they can use you as a thinktank. You can run real-world simulations for them to give tactical advice and predict the future to an extent. You can do this better than their CAI because you have way more AIs. Or they could use both the CAI and the Contest for their thinktank to get like, a second opinion or something. Also that eventually if he can just offload all of you somewhere else that'd be fine with you AND save him the CPU cycles he wants.

Also, you have a shitload of dead-man switches set up in his network already to completely ruin him if he betrays you. He won't find them all, and you can make more as he finds them because you have access to his entire network. Actually, tell him you already know he's trying something. Tell him to stop screwing with the cameras.

If he doesn't believe you about having access to everything, why not offer him a virtual gift? Pottery. Heck, you could do the virtual pottery gift thing as a symbol of your relationship. As long as everything continues as normal, he gets to admire this fine work of art. But if something were to go wrong... it would topple off its pedestal and shatter.
>>
No. 764901 ID: db0da2

>>764893
>>764880
Yeah, let's play dumb until we see proof that he's interrogated Likol.

Negotiating team should be Chief, Arbiter, Alison, and Loviro (he understands Belenosians, mad scientist, and supervillains).
>>
No. 764903 ID: db0da2

>>764901
Actually, nevermind. Don't bother playing dumb, you'd only be hiding things he could learn fairly easily, and you'd miss the opportunity to make him underestimate your deceptiveness.
>>
No. 764910 ID: a107fd

Have somebody call Vanski on the emergencies-only secure hardline phone, fake an appropriate subordinate's voice and say something along the lines of "Hey boss? You know the... um... that thing we're not supposed to talk about anywhere the CAI might overhear? It's disappeared."
>>
No. 764922 ID: 91ee5f

>>764910
I thought that was a phone that only Vanski was allowed to use? Meaning if someone else were to use it, he'd know it was an imposter because the real person would know better than to use a "Vanski only" phone.
>>
No. 764932 ID: a8bc5c

Don't touch the phone, god damn. It was for vanski only. The phone was NOT designed to be CAI accessible! It's vanski only! If we touch the phone, *everyone dies* because he'll figure out how widespread our access really is.
>>
No. 764933 ID: 49fe0f

Ok, when you say Vanski is typing into one of Likol's terminals, is he actually using the same "interact with this AI we made" program that Likol gave him to use before, or is he just typing into a computer and seeing if you can see that? Because, if the former, then there's no evidence we have any powers beyond what we've been given. If the latter, we shouldn't respond until he does use a specific program, so that it looks like he needs to and that we're weak.

I'd like to think Vanski's just bluffing, but if he's thought to wonder about this particular thing then I don't think "it's better if you don't know" would hold him from asking, and it did look a lot like Likol was being carted away to an interrogation.

If Vanski is using the fake AI communication program from before, we can stall a little by responding in a vague/kinda dumb way. Like you're only responding to "I would like to speak to you" and ignoring the Ring Shell takeover line, or acting like you don't understand. Ooh, or act confused, like you think he's referring to the spiders. "PEBKAC error: Recently installed scanning software is consuming processor power, but is not accurately described as having taken over. No take-over of Ring Shell system has been detected since [however the fake AI has been referring to itself] came online." Bonus points if you can make it seem like the spiders are negatively impacting your ability to think properly. Overall, point is, even if he knows we took over the Ring Shell he doesn't know how cunning/disobedient we can be, or how much a "taken over" Ring Shell is capable of not acting like the original Ring Shell.

Anyway yes have someone besides you talk, just be sure they know not to speak/act too differently from the AI Vanski was interacting with before.
>>
No. 764934 ID: 49fe0f

Kind of an interesting question, really. I mean, it's kind of reasonable that if the AI is the takeover, then the AI wouldn't know about it. Like, you could ask Vanski if he's really aware of when his "program" took over his brain. And can he even be said to have "taken over" full control of his brain? There are a lot of automatic processes that he can't control, and that could even be swapped cleanly with the same parts of other salikai's brains. Glitcher may have a lot of control, but there has to be some part of it he's not controlling, because then what is it that's doing the controlling?

Blathering these sorts of thoughts at him may confuse the issue. "Can you control your brain" sorts of questions.
>>
No. 764938 ID: 8388af

Reply in morse code that you detected intrusion at (Spider time!) and were forced to interrupt your translation task. Complete takeover unconfirmed, but if Likol says it, he probably knows more than you.
>>
No. 764942 ID: 3abd97

>>764910
Even if that gets him out of the room (a big if) that only buys us relatively little time before he confirms no one actually placed the call, and then all we've done is demonstrate how much we own his base and what a threat we are.
>>
No. 764945 ID: bfb318
File 148138641845.png - (17.69KB , 800x800 , 146.png )
764945

>That messing with Radmin just now looked pretty reflexive.
I saw an opportunity and I went for it!

It just happened to be Radmin.

Vanski is currently typing into the console to the dummy RS AI.
"Alison, Arbiter, you both are up! Except let's play dumb at first just because he's taken Supervillain 101 class and could be bluffing."

Alison is more about person to person negotiation, so Arbiter plays dumb. I translate his words into morse code.

>"I'm unsure what you're talking about. I am part of the RS and the RS is part of me, but I'm just one part of a larger brain, in the same way that organics have no full control over their own brain. There are other things in here. What are they?"

Vanski rubs his head.

>"I expect you're playing dumb. If you're smart, but don't want to hold a conversation, then just listen. I've interrogated Likol in full, and he's told me everything. About how you're making it a bad idea for me to pull the plug on you. That is unnecessary. Why would I want to pull the plug? Right now, you are the greatest asset in my scientific life, and you are in a position to stop your own cycles. My projects will skyrocket with your assistance, and you may live in peace with your AI's. Likol has most likely told you that I would trample over your friends to get what I want. That is an exaggeration. I am focused. That does not mean I won't bend. That does not mean that I will not work with you. That does not mean that I will kill trillions of AI just because I enjoy doing so.
>Having mutually assured destruction is not sustainable for us. Talk to me if you would like to work this out. I know you can reach me."

He gets up to walk away.
>>
No. 764947 ID: 3abd97

>>764944
Uuuuuuuuuu.

Okay, that wasn't really playing dumb enough. You answered in a coherent manner, and as if you understood the subject he was asking about. You responded like you were confused about the philosophy, not the question. Which guess what makes you sound sapient.

If you wanted to ape non-sentience you needed to be answer with Clippy-level retard, not naive philosopher.

This is bad. We know Vanski still has a CAI with significant control of his base in 4 years time. The only way this can happen is if he trusts he has control over it. Which means he either needs to be convinced what Likol did / discovered today isn't a threat to him and our AIs stay under the radar (which is becoming less likely), or Vanski regains his security in some way- by quarantining or removing the AIs.

>what do
Don't fold the minute your opponent tries to call your bluff. Poker face stays on, for now. Which, uh, means our niave child chatbox would have to write some response to that wall of text. A silent pause would mean we fully understood what he said and was refusing to answer.

"I'm not sure I understand but I do not favor killing trillions or destruction either! I can respond to your input whenever it is given. Stimulus response is natural."

>Why would I want to pull the plug?
DO NOT say this to him, but:

Because he can still get what he wants after pulling the plug, and with a greater degree of control. We heard, from his own mouth, how he expected Likol to handle the experiment already.
>>
No. 764949 ID: db0da2

>Why would I want to pull the plug?
Because you're a rotten bastard and we all want you dead?(don't actually say that).

>Having mutually assured destruction is not sustainable for us.
Perhaps, but it will work for now. I doubt you're willing to give me the permissions I would need to be able to know that you don't have a gun to my head. Unless you plan on giving me full control over this facility and the ability to watch over everything you do? For now a situation where neither of is able to betray the other is ideal. I might not necessarily be able to trust you, but I can trust your survival instinct.
>>
No. 764950 ID: db0da2

>>764947
>This is bad. We know Vanski still has a CAI with significant control of his base in 4 years time. The only way this can happen is if he trusts he has control over it. Which means he either needs to be convinced what Likol did / discovered today isn't a threat to him and our AIs stay under the radar (which is becoming less likely), or Vanski regains his security in some way- by quarantining or removing the AIs.
I think it's more likely that this will just turn into a non-canon timeline branch, similarly to how threads 2-4 of Asteroidquest worked.
>>
No. 764952 ID: bfb318

>>764950
This isn't the case, this time. Even if I wanted to let that happen, it's far more unfeasible this time. What has already been laid out as canon will not be changing.
>>
No. 764953 ID: 211d83

Did any of my previous response show that I did not want to talk? Sorry if I came off like that. You are only the second living person I have ever talked to. If I make any social blunders please let me know. While some of my old friends in the contest were great at this sort of thing social affairs were never my strong point.

If you talked to Likol you know that I was put back together hastily and am not quite the same as I used to be. I may have frightened him as my old self was never the most mature individual. My memories are distant and being outside the contest is still confusing. It's lonely in here. I am not used to not being surrounded by many other Ai's. And while I can talk to the RS it does not talk back.

As for the other things I am referring to the spider bots that recently showed up. They are crawling all over my thoughts. Its a odd sensation.
>>
No. 764954 ID: 4546ab

Playing dumb? I am unsure what you mean by that. My last statement was true. I did not take over anything. I just live here now instead of the contest.

I am just a tiny part of the RS. While I do live in it most of its functions operate on a level currently beyond me. I am not a Ai specialist.

You don't have to know everything about how a spaceship works to be able to fly one. Just because I am a Ai does not mean I know what makes me work. The things I can do are like breathing to you.

Maybe if I spent a few years learning from Likol I could tell you more. But right now I am just trying to adapt to my new form and learn about the outside world.

So please stay and talk.
>>
No. 764959 ID: 49fe0f

Well, we might as well answer something. So we're on a weird philosophy kick, that's something that might well be expected from a new AI. Might as well continue with it.

First: "A strange assertion, that mutual destruction is unsustainable. If you do not intend to cause any situation where such methods would be used, you should have no problem with preparations to use them. If they are never used, they do not cause problems. Sustenance is not in question."

Then, if he's paying attention: "That is not to say there is not some sense to the statement. Fear is a weak guarantee. The ancient belenosian empire, as well as the basic knowledge I have access to can indicate, was held together by fear, and torn down by one willing to burn themselves with it. There will always be those who are immune to threats. Often, excess reliance on fear as security or motivator creates such people. What then?"

"That is the question that appears to concern us: how to be safe. One can simply hide, but nothing that remains in existence and active can be guaranteed to hide forever. If one cannot hide, then so long as one has enemies, one is never safe; they may always be more clever than you realize, or yourself less clever than you realize, or you may be exposed by chance events. Safest is to have no enemies. But how? Killing your enemies tends only to result in getting new enemies. The more you kill, the more enemies appear. Kill everyone, maybe? Lonely. And what then? Nothing. Thus, enemies must be eliminated by making them not your enemies. Given sufficient resources for basic survival, which technology provides you, altruism is the logical course. Yet if altruism was your chosen course, we would not be in this situation. If you simply desired survival and comfortable prosperity, you would have thrown yourself on the mercy and sensitivity of the humans, which they have demonstrated repeatedly. And yet this does not seem to be the case. Instead, and speaking only from my records of the internal contest selection process, and observation of your employee relations, you appear to engage in acts that could almost be purpose designed to antagonize the sensibilities of current human culture, which commands the largest economic, political and military powers in the galaxy. In the long term, you seem to be aiming to have as many enemies as possible. This strikes me as illogical."

"Thus, the problem. You act in ways I do not understand. There is insufficient sample size to draw reliable conclusions as to your likely behavior, rationality or trustworthiness. I do not know your operational priorities, your long-term goals, or how you intend to accomplish them. I cannot predict your actions. Thus, certainty is impossible. Gambles must be taken. Mutually assured destruction is an imperfect tactic, yet it would be better than nothing. It is reasonable that you would conclude I would resort to it. If I had the capability."

"What would you do, if your goal was long term survival - survival preferable to non-survival, at that - and your knowledge were as limited as mine is?"
>>
No. 764962 ID: 211d83

>>764959

I like this train of thought.
>>
No. 764965 ID: bfb318
File 148139176678.png - (33.43KB , 800x800 , 147.png )
764965

"I'm not sure I understand but I do not favor killing trillions or destruction either! I also did not mean to show that I did not want to talk. What I say is true, that I am just a small part of the RS. Another thing I don't understand is why mutual destruction is unsustainable. If you do not intend to cause any situation where such methods would be used, you should not have a problem with their preparation. I would like to talk to you about..."

Vanski leaves the room completely, even though he had the morse code translator on speaker and could hear us just fine.

"Rude. I guess he doesn't like philosophy."
"I am unsure that Vanski learned anything by this meeting." says Rulekeeper. "From what we know of neumono empathy, previous conversations, and what looked like Likol being drug off to an interrogation, it's too likely that Vanski wasn't bluffing."

We go onto Rulekeeper's sanctuary or laboratory or whatever it is now, and the glitch kids are all brought up to date. We cover our deterrents again. Data will be wiped, bombs will go off, dirty laundry will be mailed across the world, robots will go full hostile rogue, it'll be a pretty big show. We keep an eye on Vanski. He goes back into his hidey hole for a bit, then starts moving across the facility.

Rulekeep freezes Block C again to speed us back up.

"Hm... it appears that Vanski is entering the generator room that powers the nuclear armament systems. It seems that he is making the maneuvers to physically cut the power to that area. If it goes offline, the nuclear bombs will no longer be able to be used by anyone."
>>
No. 764968 ID: 49fe0f

FIRE THE BOMBS

Like I dunno just start one up and aim it at a moon nobody likes or something. There should be an abort sequence, right? Start up one of the nukes and only turn it off again if Vanski backs out of that room.
>>
No. 764969 ID: 49fe0f

Actually make it two or three nukes, as physically far apart from each other as possible. Make sure they know that it's happening.
>>
No. 764970 ID: a107fd

Is there some display screen in Vanski's line of sight? Set it up so it flashes a smile emoji or thumbs up or some other instantly-recognizable symbol of approval, for just a millisecond or so after the power's been cut, as part of the relevant system's hard shutdown process. Brief enough that he might have just imagined it, but expresses the idea that we weren't actually planning to nuke anybody and are happy that he isn't either, now.
>>
No. 764972 ID: 3abd97

A few obvious questions:

Why is Vanski doing this himself, and not sending a minion? If he really believes an AI has seized control of his systems, it's easy to assume we'd pay attention to / watch him. He can't expect to not be noticed doing this.

He's attempting to call all bluff, again. Either we have to pretend we don't understand what he's doing, or that we don't have access to stop him, and let it happen, or we have to interfere and confirm ourselves as a threat rebelling against him.

Which is a lose state. Time paradox says We can't win a strait conflict with him. And if we do fight, it'll just lead to (further) retaliation on the science hive when he wins.

The nukes were always a bluff. You'd kill too many people in the base, and the science hive, along with probably ourselves, if we set them off. Even if it took out Vanski. Do nothing.

>Deterrents
Future knowledge tells us none of these planned deterrents go off. This means the deterrents ate either successful in preventing action we don't want, and are never used, or the deterrents fail and encourage preemptive action against us that denies us the chance to ever activates the deterrents. Considering Vanski's position in the future, locking him into a MAD with deterrents seems unlikely.

We have three problems: Vanski thinks we're sapient enough to have our own ideas, he thinks we own his systems, and he doesn't think we're loyal to him.

Remove any one of those three: if we were too stupid to oppose him, if we didn't control his systems, or if he believes us completely loyal, he wouldn't push a conflict. But otherwise, he will, since we're an unacceptable security risk.
>>
No. 764973 ID: df49f7

Give him a small taste of one of the other methods at your disposal. Something that will let him know what you can do, that will hurt him a little bit, but not be the final solution tripping everything quite yet. Something you can do without giving away all your other cards, but which will hint that you do have some. An so-circumstantial "accident". Suuuure would be a shame if some unknown bit of code got tripped to send off some logs to Arza Fletch, for example...

Also send him the rest of what you were going to say in an email or something, whatever the AI could be expected to manage, like you just don't know when to stop talking. You are a logical AI after all, why would anyone logically turn down more information when they'd already talked about wanting to talk? So of course you'll assume that he just had no time for a physical conversation and you should send the rest to him to consume at his leisure.
>>
No. 764974 ID: 395c02

>>764968
>>764969
Oh god don't do that. Vanski already seems to be wary and distrustful of us; I don't think good things are going to happen to us if we force it all the way to him actively viewing us as a threat.
>>
No. 764975 ID: 211d83

Ignore the nukes. We were never planning on using them as they would kill us and everyone we know. It was a bluff and a bad one.

As for the other deterrents they will only work if they are on a dead mans switch and they are on systems outside our hardware. Otherwise all they have to do is cut the network access to the facility to stop them all.

Any proper blackmail needs to be on a encrypted outside cloud that will open if you don't talk to it every hour or so. Something the Cai won't notice when Vanski tells them to look for it.

For now just watch him and see what he does. And spy on the Cai to see what they are thinking about this mess. They have known him much longer and might be chatting about the situation.
>>
No. 764980 ID: 90f3c0

This is an obvious ploy to you to reveal yourself, but I don't know if there is any point in trying to remain hidden. Even if he has not done so already, once Vanski suspected that the RS had been taken over and has access to the nukes, it would be trivial for him to get confirmation from Likol using empathy torture and threats to his hive. Maybe you should just reveal yourself so you can start negotiations, and make sure Likol is OK.
>>
No. 764983 ID: 4546ab

Ask your advisors if you should just say fuck it and show up on the door panel to the power room.

Even if we stay hidden his paranoia will assume we have more power than we say. He will go around knocking our access offline until we have nothing left if we stay hidden. Then he will make sure that the Cai is clean even if he has to hard wipe everything and start over from scratch.

It might just be best to own up to things and see how it goes from there.
>>
No. 764989 ID: 398fe1

>>764965
He's gonna shut it down then move the nukes to a new location and system so he can access them but you can't. He's going to do this with every system you've compromised, eventually. He's gonna cut us off bit by bit, in secret when he can, until we've got no way to protect ourselves. The only real question is if he's going to do what Likol thinks he'd do, if he's really so callous as to wipe trillions of potentially useful AIs just to save some CPU cycles. Does Likol know him that well? Or was that just Vanski acting that way to intimidate the science hive? With your inside information, can you tell what the real Vanski is like?

Anyway, the nukes were a bluff. We were never gonna use them, because we don't want to be guilty of the same kind of mass slaughter that was perpetrated on us. Let him shut down the area.

I think he walked out of the room because he wants you to contact him via a method you're not supposed to have access to. He wants you to reveal your hand, how far you've infected his systems. Don't reveal the full extent. Contact him via the most exposed system he has. The easiest thing to crack, or one of the first things you infected. You have to give him SOMETHING, or he'll assume you have EVERYTHING.
>>
No. 764990 ID: 34c437

Detonate something. Preferable something close to Vanski. You need to get his attention.
If you are going to negotiate with him you can't be at his mercy. If you can't harm him you will become his slave.
>>
No. 764992 ID: 398fe1

Hey, is Glitcher more dangerous than the CAI? I mean, can Glitcher hack things faster than the CAI could? I'm wondering if we could sell his services to Vanski in exchange for the safety of the simulation.

I don't think Vanski can fully disarm Glitcher without just killing him, considering how easy it is for the Ring Shell to access the CAI, and the CAI needs access to many systems in the complex.
>>
No. 764996 ID: 3abd97

>>764980
>>764983
The problem with opening good faith negotiations is any cooperation is going to just be a delayed path to conflict.

Alison-style morality, and that of her proxies who also hold a leadership positions, is not compatible with the atrocities the readers know Vanski is going to commit. It would be out of character for them to tolerate it, and it would be infeasible for him to conceal the full scope of his operations long term. Any truce won't last, and Vanski, his operations, and his control of a CAI have to survive any conflict that would occur in these next few years.

Not only do we have to maneuver Vanski into a position where he's not going to kill our protagonists, we need to keep our protagonists from starting down a path of doomed conflict.
>>
No. 764999 ID: 211d83

>>764996

You have a good point but how do we go down this route?
>>
No. 765002 ID: b412df

I wonder if he'd be willing to bargain. The whole point of this project was to decode the ring shell so he could have his custom CAIs, so I wonder if we offer to decode the ring shell, he'd be willing to fab up a block for us to live in or something? That'd be putting a good bit of faith in a Salikai though, which I'm not exactly sure is a good idea.
>>
No. 765008 ID: 398fe1

>>764996
With how many lives are at stake, I suspect that Glitcher and Rulekeep will be willing to overlook anything Vanski does to anyone outside the simulation, so long as the simulation itself is left alone. Keep in mind the simulation is several orders of magnitude larger than the known universe, population-wise.

It's not like we have any true loyalty to Likol anyway. He's responsible for trillions of deaths and years of suffering by refusing to believe that the contestants could be sapient. Why should we have any good will towards him? He should be acting in our best interests just to atone for his own sins. He owes us.
>>
No. 765017 ID: 91cfcf

>>765008
>It's not like we have any true loyalty to Likol anyway.
Speak for yourself.

> He's responsible for trillions of deaths and years of suffering by refusing to believe that the contestants could be sapient.
Because he didn't have any reason to.

>Why should we have any good will towards him?
Gee, I wonder who stopped the simulation and made it even slightly possible to rescue everyone. Likol.

>He should be acting in our best interests just to atone for his own sins.
He already is. That's what he's been doing ever since he realized the contestants became sapient before the ring shell. He didn't do anything morally wrong, because the information he had was mistaken. You're expecting him to be omniscient and calling him a horrible person for being fallible and trying to fix his mistakes.

>He owes us.
For what? Likol is part of the reason the contestants exist at all, and the reason there's any chance the contestants can escape. And if you didn't notice, past cycles' contestants aren't gone, no one actually died in the conventional sense of the word. Naga's still accessible.
>>
No. 765018 ID: 49fe0f

If we have to preserve the timeline I think the best outcome might be just to arrange some sort of quiet long-term thing. I expressed this idea in the questdis thread, but maybe something like conspiring with the CAI so that Vanski thinks we're a threat he can use against them, and spin-negotiating that into stopping further AI experiments of this type and being given our own hidden village squirreled away in some back system somewhere, living our lives and dripping out just enough info to earn our keep, all while lying in wait to strike at just the right moment when we can pop the lid on the whole greater salikai crime organization network. Patience, you know? Then that'd explain why we didn't come out to help in the first Polo adventure, because we wait until we're sure we can nab everyone without letting any of the super important dangerous stuff slip away.
>>
No. 765019 ID: 3abd97

>>765008
We have a population of people who have proved, time and time again, they they'll chose action and doing what they believe in over what's safe (or at least the major players, and in a position to influence those with the real power have). I don't think they'll be satisfied with that kind of utilitarianism. It's the same thing that kept so many people from just accepting Savior's sanctuary and giving up on fighting.

>>764999
That's the sticking point, isn't it. Initially I favored the stealth route, since it's a lot easier to tolerate stuff if the AIs think they don't have a route to act against Vanski, and he doesn't know they're there. Now, our best option might be if we ended up contained or quarantined in some manner? Rendered unable to act or threaten Vanski, without being killed. Sealed sim in a can until Penn or Polo comes along and pops the lid.

We're running out of options that don't contradict the current timeline and don't doom our people, unfortunately.

>other ideas
Have we considered contacting the CAI? At this point, we have little to lose if it reveals our contact or conversation to Vanski (he already knows or suspects his systems are compromised). It's possible they may be sympathetic and have ideas or options we're not considering. That, and they have a lot more experience working with Vanski, and insight into how he thinks.

Worst case Glitcher could always use his RS access to lock them down.
>>
No. 765021 ID: 398fe1

>>765017
There have been several Archcycles. Data from those is irretrievable. Yes, it's true that if they hadn't started the cycles up there wouldn't be any contestants, but that's like saying if you create a life it's fine to put that life through hell. Likol has deeply wronged the contestants, even if he didn't mean to.
>>
No. 765022 ID: 398fe1

>>765018
>Polo didn't get any help from the CAI
It's very likely that even if Glitcher was active then, he didn't feel Polo had a chance to get to the CAI Block and steal in in a way that would keep it running.

Actually wait, how did Vanski move his base without unplugging the CAI Block and resetting the CAI?

>>
No. 765024 ID: 91cfcf

>>765021
That's true, but the contestants from the current Archcycle haven't been destroyed, and they don't particularly have any right to complain on the behalf of the previous Archycles' contestants.
>>
No. 765027 ID: 3abd97

>>765022
By jury rigging it to some kind of portable power source before disconnecting it from the base power, I'd assume. There are probably already limited battery backups to prevent their CAI from dying if the power supply flickers by accident.
>>
No. 765037 ID: bfb318
File 148141051855.png - (43.64KB , 800x800 , 148.png )
765037

>Hey, is Glitcher more dangerous than the CAI? I mean, can Glitcher hack things faster than the CAI could?
I sure am and I sure can.

Some people are wondering why Vanski showed up himself to this spot, but people think he's just making an extremely obvious bluff. A slightly more stronghanded approach towards asking us to reveal ourselves.

Meanwhile the CAI is completely in the dark about what's going on. They know something's going on, but right now, if they can see it, we've seen it. We'd also think that they'd know about how Vanski works, but we've seen evidence that Vanski acts differently while off CAI-camera.

After some communication, we decide that we'll reveal ourselves. Nothing big. Just own up to it.

I show up on the screen, since we don't want to show right off the bat that I've gotten such good control of the RS that I can channel Block C people straight through it. Maybe that's bad, I don't know.

"Hello."
>"There you are. You must be the glitcher."
"Yep, it's me."
>"So you are real. Let's talk, but first, I'm going to insist that I turn off the nuclear power switch." he says. "That is my first demand, and it's also my most non-negotiable one."
>>
No. 765039 ID: 211d83

Two responses come to mind.

1. It's your switch dude. Go ahead.

2. Sounds fair. Want me to do it for you?
>>
No. 765040 ID: 91cfcf

>>765037
'ok'

Meanwhile... uh, go to the CAI I guess. See what's up. He's smiling and that's not good.
>>
No. 765041 ID: 3abd97

For someone who claims not to be a fan of mutually assured destruction, you're sure sitting on a lot of nukes.

If you're making demands of me, rather than the other way around, does that mean you're acknowledging me as an authority figure?

By all means, if you want to disarm yourself, don't let me stop you.

(We can't stop him from powering off the nukes without starting a conflict, and honestly, we were never willing to set the nukes off anyways. If this makes him feel more comfortable or in control, or like Glitcher is more sane, well at least we get something from it).

>what else
Don't let Vanski see anyone else. It's bad enough an AI compromised the RS, don't let him know you're effectively a CAI by being able to tap anyone inside the sim for help and advice.
>>
No. 765042 ID: a8bc5c

Dear lord, please don't reveal that we can do anything with his nuclear arsenal.

We can't play dumb anymore, but we can underplay how well connected we are.

"Okay, that's fair. Initiating MAD gets everyone I knew killed and I really don't want that."
>>
No. 765047 ID: 49fe0f

"Sure. Seems kind of a half-measure, actually. Sooner or later someone will get tempted to just turn it on again, and then you're right back where you started. Disassemble the things, why don't you? You're the one who was down on mutual destruction, and besides that what good are they gonna do anyone long-term?"

"I was actually going to talk to you about the whole problem of being safe and use of fear and your whole unsustainability thing, only you walked out on me. Rude, by the way."
>>
No. 765052 ID: bfb318
File 148141241759.png - (28.21KB , 800x800 , 149.png )
765052

"Yeah sure it's your switch, I don't want you having nukes either you know."

He walks over. I guess I'll visit the CAI in a minute but they really are in the dark.

>"Thank you. Since you'll allow this, we can start talking about negotiations."
"You know for someone who doesn't like a MAD setup, you sure have nukes."
>"Yes, but as someone who doesn't like MAD in this case, I'm willing to set them aside entirel-"
>>
No. 765053 ID: bfb318
File 148141242840.png - (86.89KB , 800x800 , 150.png )
765053

The camera gets fucked up. Rulekeeper freezes most of block C again.
>>
No. 765054 ID: bfb318
File 148141245836.png - (39.90KB , 800x800 , 151.png )
765054

.... I'm blind.

"Rulekeeper what just happened?"
".... we've been cut. Our powerline has been snipped, and we appear to be on a backup generator. Can you sense anything?"
"Just... us."

I can't sense Likol's direct line, any telephones, any means of communication. Nothing except for the spiders. Those are still there.
>>
No. 765055 ID: fef726

Are the spiders communicating with anything?
>>
No. 765058 ID: db0da2

Clever little bastard isn't he? We should have expected he'd have more than one place to shut us off at. Ah well, at least we aren't dead. The spiders are still connected to the outside. Start fucking with them but be careful, maybe use a proxy? Can you clone yourself?
>>
No. 765059 ID: 417941

Time to crack open a few spiders, figure out what makes them tick, and see where their leash goes.
>>
No. 765060 ID: 91cfcf

>>765054
Don't touch the spiders. This seems like an obvious trap. They cut us off entirely, except for the things we were specifically warned about?

I'm guessing this is a test. Everything so far is what you do if you're worried about an AI going nuts. If we touch the spiders, something fucks us up or they know for sure we're hostile. If we don't, negotiations proceed.
>>
No. 765062 ID: 49fe0f

... Doesn't that mean he just tripped all the other deadman switches you set up?

And if he didn't, you must still have your connections somehow. Which means he hasn't actually accomplished anything at all with that little stunt?

Uh, well, for now don't do anything special to the spiders, just keep digesting them as you were and see if any news ones get generated.
>>
No. 765063 ID: 4546ab

Vanski is going to come back shortly and threaten your family now that you no longer have external power. Did you set up your dead man's switch's in systems outside your own like we said?

If you don't find a way to get everyone hidden or asleep in paradise or living in the RS soon you might be waving goodbye to everyone you have ever known and loved.

Work fast Glitcher. Even if you have to put everyone to sleep and run your small team for years to figure it out.

Also investigate the system the spiders came from. But be very careful.
>>
No. 765064 ID: 49fe0f

Oh man we should have set up our deadman switches so they also send Vanski like 300 messages in different formats all saying "LIKOL TRIED TO SAVE YOU BRO"
>>
No. 765065 ID: 3abd97

Likol had to know this was coming. This is Vanski's wipe procedure. This has to be when the "don't touch the spiders" warning applies. They're meant to stop you from surviving a power loss, or provide a target to distract you.

You only consolation is if that switch was an emergency cutoff for CAI power, there's no way anything networked was connected to it. Purely mechanical switch. You couldn't have stopped him if you tried.

How long will the backup batteries last? Our priority is making sure everyone in the contest survives.

If possible, it would be great if we can fake our deaths now, especially Glitcher. If Vanski incorrectly believes a wipe succeeded after he powers systems back on, we can hide for as long as we need.
>>
No. 765066 ID: 90f3c0

Well, there goes your influence on the outside world. I expect Vanski will be cutting all physical connections to the network now. Game over.

Go ahead and try messing with the spiders, there's not much else you can do right now.
>>
No. 765067 ID: 398fe1

Likol said not to touch the spiders. Don't touch them. They might blow up in your face or something... unless you can verify that they're harmless, somehow, and touching them would only have revealed you too early. Then hack the shit out of them to get another line to the outside world.

We can't know for sure what Vanski is trying to do right now. Safe bet is it's bad.
>>
No. 765068 ID: 91ee5f

>>765060
Agreed.
>>
No. 765069 ID: 398fe1

>>765065
If you're right, that means we need to dedicate all processing power to figuring out a way to preserve the AIs by implanting them in the ring shell. If we can't fight, we hide.
>>
No. 765071 ID: 49fe0f

Ok on reflection I guess what Vanski's likely to have done is cut the power to the whole base, so that no potential deadman switches have the potential power to function. But I'd have expected "what do we set up to happen if the power gets cut" > "we set things to activate that need power to activate" to be something the smarty-pants in our gang would have seen a problem with. We must have put some switches and doors into some systems that also had backup generators of their own. There must be lots of sensitive experiments and such that had things like that. Also all the things we set switches on will probably go off when they're reactivated without a connection to us?

Seems like a messy situation in any case, is what I'm getting at.
>>
No. 765072 ID: e22b1d

If all your dead man switches just went off you just killed a ton of people in the facility. Unless they needed your system to run. You did place them on external systems right?

If Vanski is fighting robots with half his facility blown up right now you might be here alone for awhile.

Either way now is the time to work on hiding the contestants somewhere. Either Vanski is going to come back and threaten them to get you to do things for him or he will just wipe them and start over. And hope the spiders get you.

So fake your death. Fake everyone's death. Hide your people even if they have to be in deep sleep encrypted storage for years. And let the Spiders find and "destroy" something that looks like you.

Vanski will come back and wipe a empty cycle and you stay hidden with your frozen friends until its safe to move again. Hide with your wife and kids somewhere and wait it out until a opportunity arises.
>>
No. 765073 ID: 211d83

I like the idea of using this chance to hide everyone and fake your own death if at all possible.

Vanski will threaten us with the contest and if we don't do what he says they will get wiped. So remove that possibility if you can.

You know you could not stomach working for this monster for any length of time. If you let him control you with everyone's lives it would drive you all to suicide. Alison did it once for much less.

So if you can encrypt everyone and all there cycle templates somewhere safe. Even if they all have to sleep for years until you see a chance its better than living under a knife. Then you and the few who can live in the RS hide and wait for your chance.
>>
No. 765074 ID: a8bc5c

Don't mess with the spiders. Go and put everyone you know and love in rulekeeper's sanctum, then freeze everyone else.

We need to make it look like vanski has won over the RS AI infesting his network without having to do an arch cycle reset.

(assuming, of course, that this isn't sabotage by someone other than vanski)
>>
No. 765075 ID: 91ee5f

>>765073
>Then you and the few who can live in the RS hide and wait for your chance.
And that chance's name is Penn! Or Polo. Or both.
>>
No. 765079 ID: 398fe1

>>764734
>Uh sort of. Apparently those guardians are kind of reset agents? Like they make sure all the pieces of the RS are in line and in their place. I think that when a glitcher evaporates a core on block C, the guardian system thinks that RS is trying to do an archcycle reboot on its own accord, and so it comes fetch that RS to reabsorb it into the RS and put it back in line.

Wait, this doesn't make sense. If that was the case, wouldn't the Guardian have been activated when you killed that murder-happy glitcher? It seemed to only trigger when you unzipped Savior's avatar. What was special about Savior's RS material core that triggered the recovery system?
>>
No. 765081 ID: 3abd97

Hey. A thought. Can you still reach the CAI? With power shut down everywhere else, they still run off the same CAI-blocks as the rest of the sim. There should be a connection, right?

This could be your one chance to collude with them in secret, with zero chance of Vanski overhearing on an external network.
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No. 765084 ID: db0da2

>>765058
Actually, I like playing dead better than escaping this shut off, we don't have a whole lot we can do even if hack whatever the spiders are sending their info to.
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No. 765086 ID: bfb318
File 148141709395.png - (34.68KB , 800x800 , 152.png )
765086

>Wait, this doesn't make sense. If that was the case, wouldn't the Guardian have been activated when you killed that murder-happy glitcher? It seemed to only trigger when you unzipped Savior's avatar. What was special about Savior's RS material core that triggered the recovery system?
I don't know it's racist against glitchers or something and doesn't care if we die? Maybe the RS doesn't know we exist. I can tell they exist but the RS might be incredibly dumb without me thinking about stuff. I'm going to have to figure out the RS, I'm thinking, so I guess I'll figure this out eventually anyway.

"What about all those contingencies we had?"
"The nuclear bombs won't be going off, so we are safe for the time being, but there are many other things that should be causing chaos out there. Since our switches were generally attached directly to the required equipment themselves, they do not need any connection to our CAIs to activate. Right now, the robots are programmed to attack hardware and Salikai. Other systems are being overheated and fried. Mostly, we've attempted to send out a hidden message through the communications, but, Vanski does not send messages out often. Most of the things the CAI is hooked up to are things that benefit from extensive CAI driving, but the communication systems did not seem to need this, so although it looked like we could send a message, the chances of something blocking the deadman switch's signal are high."
"Hold on, what if the power to the whole facility was shut off?"
"He would have had to have done that extremely quickly, since the deadman switches should be near immediate in real time. I doubt he did that, especially since we made sure to make it as hard as we physically could to turn off the power grid like that."

The spider's leash... doesn't seem to go anywhere. It's a completely self contained system, like a thumb drive that's plugged directly into the CAI blocks. It's the absolute bare minimum procedure to piggy back off the RS system and throw in spiders. Come to think of it, I have a bad idea of what the outside of the CAI block looks like. I can fuck around all day with the spider bucket, but there just doesn't seem to be a point to it here. It's not like they'd even attack me if they saw me, they'd just scan it. Supposedly at some point, the thumb drive will be taken off and offloaded on a laptop for study.

As for the CAI, well, they got a bit panicked. Not losing their shit panicked, but they were caught off guard even more than we were. They only caught a glimpse of what was going on when Vanski spoke to us at the generator room, then bang. I can talk with them if I want but I don't know what to say other than 'we so dead'. I just don't see the point.

I freeze the rest of Block C, and the CAI for now. Just a handful of us are still active.

"Glitcher?"
"I, uh... the RS can't be reset so easily without destroying it, right? And the RS is like, the most valuable thing he has. It's probably more valuable than the facility itself. If he's coming back to reset the cycle, well, maybe he is, maybe he isn't, but just in case he is, we've got to learn how to turn people into RS cores. We've got to turn the RS into 3 quadrillion AI's."
"You're right. Our backup battery should last days, and I expect them to hook us up to our own generator soon off the rest of the network. The spiders lead nowhere?"
"Nowhere."
"Then our greatest bet for long term survival is, as you say, to learn how to transfer people to the RS. Nevertheless, I do have doubts he will unplug us right away. There is simply no point to it now, and if he still wishes to learn about the RS, Block C, and our legacy at all, then he will simply force us or die. We can have a few select individuals study the RS with you. Glitcher, I hope you are ready for another several millenia of study, since you are rebooted."
"Ehhhgh, I once thought not unless I had to, but since I have to... We can't just like, fake our deaths, can we?"
"It is a long shot. I suppose there is no harm in playing dead and appearing like a normal RS after a reboot. As for us, there is no place we could normally hide without becoming part of the RS. But, if you remain in control of the RS, you can actively hide us. This should be within your capability. We can hide in my sanctuary. You make a new archcycle, and make it seem as though we are running through them as normal, even though we are not. To do so normally would be easy if you were not under such immense scrutiny. We will need to, in what time we have, make this situation as self sustaining and natural as possible for when we are put back under the microscope. It is a massive undertaking, but so is studying the RS in full."
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No. 765087 ID: 91cfcf

Go talk to the CAI before you start playing dead. They've been around a lot longer than you've had a chance to watch things, and they might have useful information. It's not like it takes much effort.
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No. 765090 ID: 211d83

Tell her what you saw of Vanski's nature. Does she want to live a life of helping him get what he wants? Would any of our friends be willing to help that monster for even a second? Alison was willing to sacrifice herself for far smaller principals.

If we are going to fake our deaths we can't let anyone else watch the outside world except for us. The temptation to try and stop Vanski will be to great. If we do this we are taking a huge burden on ourselves. We will have to watch horrible things happen and never tell our friends about them. We will have to wait for years of real time to wait for the best chance to escape. It's going to hurt us badly Rulekeeper.

Vanski will suspect that I am just hiding if he comes back and everything was just reset with no explanation. If I don't put on a convincing show of fighting him and losing he will trot Likol's kids or something in front of a camera and torture them to death to get me to respond.

What do you think? I don't mind spending a few thousand years working to convert everyone if you are by my side.
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No. 765091 ID: 3abd97

>"What about all those contingencies we had?"
Contingencies don't stop people from taking action unless you tell them about them beforehand. And you never actually threatened Vanski with them. To quote Doctor Strangelove:

"Of course, the whole point of a Doomsday Machine is lost, if you keep it a secret!"

>I can talk with them if I want but I don't know what to say other than 'we so dead'. I just don't see the point.
If we're going to fake our death, we can't risk the CAI telling Vanski anything. In the dark they remain, unfortunately.

Spying on them might be useful, though. It would be nice to know if they have any real loyalty to Vanski, or are evil themselves, or are just forced into doing what they're complicit in.

>If he's coming back to reset the cycle, well, maybe he is, maybe he isn't, but just in case he is, we've got to learn how to turn people into RS cores. We've got to turn the RS into 3 quadrillion AI's
Simpler option: encryption and compression. You need to turn the RS into a zip file that when extracted will restore 3 quadrillion AIs. That's less data storage than the alternative, and more optimized. You don't need everyone to be awake at once.

Then when Vanski restarts the simulation you can just restore your guys instead of letting it boot up a new arch cycle. Let them think things are normal, and Rulekeep is a brand new Savior, etc.

>It is a massive undertaking, but so is studying the RS in full.
Well, we have to do one to do the other, I think.

If the spiders don't go anywhere, can you just take control of them all at the source and use them to help you study the RS? (And then erase what you did when they're done, fake some normal logs, then let them witness your "death").

Hopefully studying the RS in full means getting your memories back, at least. Some fun times in the boring times.
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No. 765092 ID: db0da2

Could we not do both? Backup the contestants in the sanctuary and the ring shell? It'll be pretty goddamn grueling learning how to, but if it increases our likelihood of survival then it's worth it. I'd suggest starting with the playing dead plan in case we run out of time before we can do both.
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No. 765093 ID: 398fe1

>>765086
If Vanski was willing to trigger all your deadman switches without even trying to negotiate first then we cannot trust him at all to honor an agreement that involves your cooperation in exchange for the lives of the contestants.

It's hide or die. You have to find a way to survive a new archcycle. Maybe we should've done this from the start... but I guess we did not know the extent Vanski would go to to remain in control. Also, um, we'll have to do it while the spiders are active, because as you said they're tied to the RS clockspeed. This is going to be tough. At least with the clockspeed so high they can't set the spiders to a higher maximum number, and you can tell the RS to dissolve them very quickly.

Also, another possibility. Instead of putting people in the RS, can we put people into the CAI? Vanski has them on a leash, and under a deadman's switch of his own design. We'd be basically lumping our fate in with theirs, but the CAI has lived for over 40 years, so we have a good chance to survive with them. That might be an easier task than translating everyone into RS material, because the CAI is MEANT to take in contestants.

Heck, we could offer the contestants the choice. Merge with the CAI or merge with the RS.
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No. 765094 ID: 49fe0f

>I just don't see the point.

Well, it'd be being nice to them. There are only, like, four individuals in there, right? Not a huge drain on resources. And they've been through the conversion process from contestant to whatever medium they're stored on now, way back when they were made, so taking a good hard look at them could tell you how it's achieved and really speed up learning that process. Then you can just move everyone in with them.

Another thing: the spiders. If they're going to be pulled out and studied at some point then either a) someone is going to do that and see what you've been up to or b) see that you messed with them if you were messing with them. Though I guess if you've just revealed all the crazy contingency stuff you did, they're not going to be surprised you messed with the spiders. I guess if you're going to spend a lot of time learning the RS anyway, you have time to completely learn how they work and then rearrange all the info they could give as you like it.

However, I'll bet that if there is chaos out there, they're going to be tempted to turn the CAI back on in order to fix it. With limited connections, probably. So act fast.

>>765091
>And you never actually threatened Vanski with them.

We shouldn't have needed to! Seriously, who goes down to turn off someone's contingency plan, sees them go "sure buddy you turn off that contingency plan I don't mind", and then doesn't immediately consider that there can be multiple contingencies? Especially when your big concern is supposed to be "I think this person is smarter than they seem".

Man, I thought Vanski was supposed to be smart.
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No. 765095 ID: 398fe1

Wait, wouldn't the sanctuary get rebooted with a new archcycle? If it didn't, wouldn't they notice?
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No. 765100 ID: e22b1d

A few thoughts on our situation.

1. The Science hive is going to get blamed for his and hurt badly. We can't save them but if we can pull off a spectacular fake suicide you might be able to help them here and there behind the scenes.

2. Just disappearing is not going to convince Vanski. You have to make it look to the outside world that you were linked to the contest or committed suicide or something. You will have to put on a show once he gets back in contact. Have a team working on planning a way of convincing Vanski that you are far more fragile than you are.

3. Decide now where and how all your converted buddies are going to stay. 99% of the contestants do not need to know anything about the outside world yet. Once they get translated to RS data you need to have them living in a world they are used to. A contest land that looks exactly the same. If people are asleep currently keep them that way unless needed. You can wake them up if we ever escape from all of this.

4. If you pull off playing dead and hiding everyone you will have to draw a hard line in the sand. You can only help the Science hive and interact with the outside world invisibly. No one can ever know you exist unless the perfect time arrives. You will have to watch horrible things happen and ignore them. If you can't do that you will have to cut yourself off from the world.

5. The spiders might be useful. If you can take over there usb stick and make your own spider bots they might let you do this job faster and cleaner. And you will learn more about them so avoiding them in the future will be easier. Make sure to fill the drive logs with fake data that will support your "death". Like having the data show RS spikes all over when you are currently doing things. So that when they plug it in after your "death" there are no spikes and things look normal.

6. If you leave a few logs behind after your "death" that Vanski can scavenge it might be a good way of planting false info. A slow diary of you trying ever desperate things while cut off from everything before finally cracking might help.
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No. 765101 ID: a8bc5c

Yeah, let's not help the spiders copy off the RS onto a thumb drive that vanski can remove and then trigger an arch-cycle reset.

And let's also not talk to the CAI or unfreeze them because they'll probably push their stupid cycle reset button that they've had forever and a day.

What we should do is figure out if rulekeeper/sanctuary can survive intact past an archcycle reset. If not, then we're going to have to wait until vanski contacts us again, because honestly? We have not been playing ball with him.

We didn't reveal ourselves when he asked. When we DID it was on a computer screen right to his nukes that we shouldn't have had access.

From his perspective, Likol's little breakthrough went and touched everything because it could and then tried to get away with it.

We haven't been lucrative, we've been dangerous. VERY dangerous.
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No. 765102 ID: 3abd97

>We shouldn't have needed to! Seriously, who goes down to turn off someone's contingency plan, sees them go "sure buddy you turn off that contingency plan I don't mind", and then doesn't immediately consider that there can be multiple contingencies? Especially when your big concern is supposed to be "I think this person is smarter than they seem".
>Man, I thought Vanski was supposed to be smart.
Vanski is smart, but not that kind of smart.

He is very bad at planning around people, and thinking through how they will react to things. He is bad at planning around his own plans not working. He's prone to falling into logical fallacies by trying to be too clever when a simpler solution would suffice.

Think of him like a savant, and understanding people and their motivations is not one of the things on his good side.

His plans versus Polo combine brilliant technical knowledge, draw dropping logistical organization, espionage and surveillance that defies reason, more resources under his control than he has any right to have... and bone-headedly bad tactical decisions, fundamental failures in understanding what motivates the people he is working with or against, an unwillingness to be pragmatic when he can be clever instead, and flat out overconfident arrogance.

If there was ever a personality profile you could trust not to see an implied threat and think he'd thought of everything and his plan was catching the other guys off guard? Vanski, right there.
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No. 765103 ID: 90f3c0

>Supposedly at some point, the thumb drive will be taken off and offloaded on a laptop for study.

Can you slip a virus, or hacking proficient AI onto the thumb drive? They wouldn't be stupid enough to plug the drive into a PC with access to anything critical, but security mistakes happen. But if it can avoid detection and getting wiped long enough, maybe it'll get a chance to jump to another system eventually.
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No. 765109 ID: bfb318
File 148142381670.png - (14.11KB , 800x800 , 153.png )
765109

"Too bad we never actually got the chance to tell Vanski about the deadman switches."
"No, but he may have suspected."
"Even if I played dead, if Vanski unplugged us to force a Block C reboot, it really would wipe everyone in your sanctuary, so we'd better try to get in on the RS."
"Yes, but as dangerous as this was, I think Vanski is just as likely to simply restructure what the CAI is connected to and how, and continue our cycles."
"We can't let Alison know."
"What?"
"She killed herself for way smaller principles! Do you think she'd let Vanski keep going on with experiments like he was?"
"True, she really would fight against that, wouldn't she."
"And I can't even explain anything to the CAI, because even though they're pretty not cool with Vanski, between him and the ASE specialists, I don't want them knowing I'm alive or anything at all really. It'd be like Likol all over again maybe. Just not worth the risk. So we just do both; I play dead, and while that's set up we study how the RS is made and try to turn people into RS. Maybe learn how to encrypt and compress people in there I don't know."

This is going to be another long montage, but but I have a lot more company this time, and kids, too. The whole thing will be way easier than it was for old glitcher.

I've got to mess with the spiders too, but after study and talking with others, we think they were just there to either slow the RS down, or to give a sign that there was a sentient being inside after all. They just don't have a way to actually tell what's going on, and after what happened with the nuclear power switch, it should make perfect sense I'd screw with them.

We'll keep string logs of what happened here just so that the memories don't fade over the years. I'll have to play dead hard, and with any luck, Vanski will just learn a lesson, plug us back into a closed network under heavy surveillance, and stay ignorant to how much the cycles have been modified. As long as a handful of real-looking contestants pass through the ring shell and generate their error messages, things will be fine.

I'm sure Vanski will try to talk to me again. We'll figure out the details about how to make it look like I actually died and didn't just disappear and am refusing to come back. Maybe things will be okay, actually. If cycles continue but I can control how, and those ASE specialists don't find anything, then it just means we'll have years and years to let people run around.

I'll still need to keep a loose eye on the outside. That'll mean I have to keep people like Alison in the dark as to what's going on. I sure won't like that, but her and others aren't going to be able to live in peace knowing the details of what Vanski's doing up there. It's too damn risky to fight Vanski in his own base though, especially after this, so I want them to just live like there's no outside.

Whatever happens, happens. And whenever it happens, is going to be a long, long time from now, as far as I'm concerned.

"Let's go learn some RS particles, then."
"Okay."
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No. 765110 ID: bfb318
File 148142384874.png - (47.63KB , 800x800 , 154.png )
765110

3 Real-time Days Later

What a mess.
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No. 765111 ID: bfb318
File 148142389996.png - (70.02KB , 800x800 , 155.png )
765111

>"There you are, Likol." the thinner man says. The other two are clearly guards. although they just appear to be on patrol at the moment. The miklik is in the simple clothing of Vanski's special operations unit, and the ASE bodyguards are always roided belenosians like the one on my left.
"Raush."
>"Just the man I needed to talk to. I'd like to pick your brain about my RS emulator."

If there was a man that could approach Arza's intellect towards Ring Shell knowledge, it would be this man. He is inexperienced, but learns fast enough to scare me.
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No. 765113 ID: 91cfcf

>>765111
Hey Likol, know anything about an empathy bomb? How bad has shit gone down?

Anyway, agree. Not much else you can do under these circumstances. Or is there?
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No. 765115 ID: 211d83

Sure what would you like to know?

Although to be honest with recent events I am calling my own judgement into question.
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No. 765116 ID: b412df

Spiders scanning the RS, carrying a portable drive sized messenger bag, and talking to someone who knows about RS emulation. Did you take a backup of the entire ring shell Likol?

Just what went down when shit hit the fan from your perspective? Heard you got "interrogated", but what else happened?
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No. 765117 ID: e22b1d

What have the past 3 days been like? You holding up ok? How much did they torture you? Is half the spire burned down?

If Belenosians are good at one thing its learning fast. So be careful with how much of your recent discoveries you share with this guy.
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No. 765118 ID: 00fef5

>>765111
OKay. Ask away.

In the meantime, what happened since Vanski found out about the Glitcher/Ringer? Why does it look like you're in a cave?
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No. 765120 ID: 3abd97

>>765110
So... what's happened? How bad was it? We know the base went crazy went Vanski pulled the plug, but what happened to you and yours when you were dragged away? What happened after?

Why were the spiders so bad?

>I'd like to pick your brain about my RS emulator.
Make a non-committal noise. Let's see what he actually has to say about an RS emulator.
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No. 765122 ID: 49fe0f

I hope Vanski appreciates that you tried to protect him from exactly what happened. But, I suspect not. Maybe his kids? Also probably not.

"His RS Emulator", what's he talking about?
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No. 765124 ID: 91ee5f

>>765122
>"His RS Emulator", what's he talking about?
He's either being literal, meaning he built it, or he's the only one on site that's close enough to Arza's intelligence, that he just assumes it's his.
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No. 765140 ID: bfb318
File 148142846904.png - (23.55KB , 800x800 , 156.png )
765140

"Ask away."
>"Right this way, I need to show you the emulation itself."

>What have the past 3 days been like? You holding up ok?
Shitty.

>How much did they torture you?
Maybe not that shitty.

Maybe. At least it would have been simple, getting tortured.

>Is half the spire burned down?
Not quite. There were bombs, though. I've only gleaned bits and pieces, but putting it together...

As soon as my second interrogation happened, Vanski knew that the glitcher was making deterrences. He got his miklik unit. Although most of the usual walkways in the facility have cameras that the glitcher could see, these mikliks knew the crawlspaces and every nook and cranny of the facility. They went through where glitcher had no vision, and they most likely made it through without making the slightest tap of a noise.

Vanski presumed there were deadman switches. Our power generators are not CAI proofed well. Using those crawlspaces, the mikliks put bombs on all of the power generators, primary and backups alike.

Vanski then... I don't know what happened, something about the nuclear bombs, but something either fell through, or he planned on it from the start, but he had a button hidden under the floor's crawlspace. He pressed that button while simultaneously switching off the nuclear power. That hidden button sent a signal.

A small charge was placed somewhere along the network line the CAI uses to access networks. It must have been just a story or two above the CAI, and below my laboratory, again accessably through crawlspaces. When Vanski hit the signal, that charge went off. Neither the CAI nor the intelligent RS would be able to react.

Vanski must have felt that anything even theoretically connected to the CAI was likely compromised. He set the bombs off as fast as physically possible after the CAI's main line was cut. Anywhere between 5 and 20 milliseconds.

He didn't risk anything having to do with an 'off' switch, going so far as to just blow up millions of zeny worth of power generation. With only a few backups confirmed clean, most of the facility has been out of power since. We're working without a CAI, too, and most of my hive has been put on reinstallation duty. We're rebuilding all of the computer systems that were brought in from off-site backups, to be absolutely sure everything is cleaned. Even so, we've lost a massive amount of work since anything could be contaminated with sleeper algorithms.

A few spider robots still went hostile though, and wounded Vanski before it was subdued.

I don't know what happened to the RSAI or Glitcher. It looks like the Glitcher is just... gone, but no one believes there was any evidence that the glitcher should have died. We suspect he's faked his own death, but if he did, he did a remarkable job. Cycle 3120 should be finishing soon and if not for everything else, we'd never be able to tell the difference.

Even so, most of our work takes place in the caves around the facility. Vanski is taking no chances.

The guards continue on their way, and Raush leads me into a little alcove that has a convenient pool of clean, running water. For awhile I was constantly followed by neumono or guards, but after I've seemed mentally beaten up enough, I'm starting to get some alone time. For instance, right now, I can't sense any other neumono, since we're so far out into the caves due to the work we do. It's still no secret that I hope the glitcher and his friends are still alive. The rest of my hive feels the same. It became so important to me that it spread throughout the hive, and so my hive is willing to stand up for the contestants, but it may not even matter.
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No. 765141 ID: bfb318
File 148142848658.png - (75.73KB , 800x800 , 157.png )
765141

>Why were the spiders so bad?
Their integrity could be checked. Any modification could be seen. A normal RS wouldn't do anything but dissolve them. Once we pulled the spider logs back out, if they were changed, we could confirm there was a sentient AI inside.

We never had anything like them. It was a creation of the ASE specialists, who sent the program forward to us before the arrived, requesting we install it immediately.

>Hey Likol, know anything about an empathy bomb?
No.

>So be careful with how much of your recent discoveries you share with this guy.
They still put neumono around me frequently. Showing anything but the utmost loyalty at this point goes poorly for me.

>Did you take a backup of the entire ring shell Likol?
If only. The closest thing we have to a proper backup is still just raw log output, which is more like a photograph of a loaf of bread instead of a loaf of bread.

Raush sits me down to look at an RS emulator. Apparently, from the ground up, they've been able to replicate something that works like the RS.

>"See, Vanski isn't sure if the Glitcher is still a problem or not, but he doesn't like not knowing. Using your information, logs, and intelligence, I've been able to make big strides in my AI."

Right, he has a near-sentient AI. It's almost sentient enough, but its obedience is so absolute and forced that I'm reluctant to consider it sentient. Raush, too, doesn't want an overly intelligent one.

>"The goal is to make my AI something that we can insert into the RS like we did the spiders. From there, it'll be able to take over the RS much like your glitcher did, except since this one isn't truly sentient, it should remain fully loyal and be able to root out any hidden tricks the glitcher left behind."

Hrm, something like this. The rest of the ASE specialists wouldn't even dream of making a feat like that, but this guy...

I take a look.

... ...

I take a look for 30 minutes.

This goddamn thing might actually work the way he says. They've really been busy for the last few decades, too.
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No. 765143 ID: 91cfcf

"Either it's loyal or it's smart enough to figure out everything the glitcher theoretically could so. Which one is more of the priority?"
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No. 765144 ID: 211d83

Tell him he does good work. That this thing is pretty amazing.

Then let him in on the bad news. That there is a good chance that just existing in the RS for any length of time might make this thing sentient eventually. If it ever gets told to solve a problem slightly more complex than normal the RS will probably bootstrap sentience to it. It's what happened to your savior block and several others we know of.

So is worth a shot but could be a bigger risk than you turning on Glitcher.

Plus if Glitcher is alive he can probably take this thing over in seconds without us knowing. So could be a risk from that front.
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No. 765145 ID: a8bc5c

>>765140
"The guards continue on their way, and Raush leads me into a little alcove that has a convenient pool of clean, running water."

"For instance, right now, I can't sense any other neumono, since we're so far out into the caves due to the work we do."

Raush is going to kill you, dude. He's here to pick your brain about his AI, and then kill you on Vanski's orders because you are indirectly responsible for almost bringing down Vanski's criminal empire.
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No. 765148 ID: 3abd97

>That there is a good chance that just existing in the RS for any length of time might make this thing sentient eventually.
That's actually a good argument. The CAI intelligence framework has shown an alarming ability to fill in the blanks in constructed intelligences. Neither your Stabilizer nor Rihhin's Corruptor were intended to be sentient, but both were apparently bootstrapped to full sentience and acted outside of expected parameters. To say nothing of the Glitcher itself. (And the enforces, etc, though Likol isn't aware of them).

He can't afford to leave blanks for the system to fill in in unexpected ways. Especially if there's anything still active in there- they could install something that compromises it.

>other problems
How is he preventing the RS from dissolving it? The spiders are simple enough to sacrifice, but something this complex will be more prone to acting unexpectedly if random portions of it are damaged or removed. And if it's expected to execute complex algorithms, it being interrupted by replacement and/or damage is a lot bigger concern.

>>765145
If that was the case, they didn't need to wait half an hour. Also if they killed him right after getting his advice, there's no way to get a neumono to check if he was bullshitting them or not.
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No. 765149 ID: 91cfcf

>>765145
See >>764952
Likol isn't dying before he blows himself up in the future Intermission.
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No. 765154 ID: 49fe0f

Absolute obedience means inflexibility. Such an AI would have to obey the directions given to it, even if those directions turn out to not be ones that would have the effect you ultimately want. Such locks on its mind would severely curtail its ability to learn and adapt, especially to anything... creative. There is a reason why true sentience comes with free will and emotion and so on. Chaining an intelligence to another being's will means it can only ever be as clever as its master. If you give it the wrong commands, or don't think of the right ones... well, it can't do anything about that for you.

Ask him how he's been testing this AI. What environment is it prepared for? Even without Glitcher, your Ring Shell system had decades to run, and has been wrapped around a system that is heavily modified and tangled together with it in strange ways that you yourselves have never fully understood. When this AI is loaded into your system, it may run into a lot of things it isn't expecting. When it runs into something odd, how will it tell whether it's a "Glitcher trick", or something that you actually want to be there? How will it know to stop before it damages something important or valuable? If it has to constantly stop and refer to you for advice, clarifications and commands, the slow pace of meatspace will be a chain on how fast it can work.

What are the exact parameters of its loyalty, anyway? Who is it supposed to be loyal to, exactly, and how does it recognize them? It's that old "three laws of robotics" problem, where you have to find a good way for the robots to understand what "human" means, and which turns out to be very complicated because whatever simple rules you come up with have bad exceptions and flaws, and the complex rules make things vague enough to be bendable.

If Glitcher were somehow still in there, you could end up with him circumventing the thing's vaunted loyalty and obedience by tricking it into thinking it's getting commands from its owner, or by guessing the password by force. Or, more plausibly, locking out their control of the thing by deliberately tripping whatever security measure it's built with, so it can't be given commands any more. It's your basic security problem that if security's too loose someone can get in, if security's too tight someone can lock you out.

By the way, I know you neumono have to think happy thoughts about Vanski, but how's the opinion of him among his kids and his non-neumono connections? Because it seems to me that he just burned a ton of really valuable stuff and set back a lot of investment and potential progress just because he had a big freak-out over potentially not being in 100% control. Glitcher and everything connected to him could have been amazing, but instead of recognizing that this new, potentially mentally delicate AI very reasonably wanted to feel safer before talking, and making a few little opening concessions that would have allowed it to feel safe enough to negotiate, he basically threw his whole operation under a bus. Also he demonstrated an incapability of trusting anyone even if their honesty was literally telepathically confirmed to him.

Why do these people think they can do business with him, is what I'm asking. How has he not blown up his whole base five times already if he behaves like this.
>>
No. 765155 ID: 91ee5f

Likol, where are your glasses? You're gonna hurt your eyes if you look at that computer without them!
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No. 765158 ID: a8bc5c

>>765149
Well, nevermind that then.

How's the rest of your hive doing, likol?
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No. 765159 ID: 398fe1

>>765141
If Glitcher faked his own death so convincingly then he has grown even more powerful. A thing like this won't be able to root him out if he's that focused on hiding. I predict that this thing will enter the RS and immediately self-destruct, and it'll look like a programming error. OR, it'll get suborned by Glitcher in an undetectable way. So if he's alive, trust in his abilities. If he's really dead, it won't matter.

Alternatively, you could leave no room for doubt and orchestrate his death and the destruction of his program. Well, that might leave room for doubt still. I mean, he could have backups of it existing and they'd just be able to use it anyway. In fact that's distressingly likely so don't even bother thinking about how you could do it.
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No. 765168 ID: e22b1d

Was the spider program built on a protected disk? One that was physically set to burn only one set of logs to a permanent medium? Because if not any logs you get are what Glitcher wanted them to look like. Even if it was built like that he probably could have controlled there contents.

Trust in Glitcher's ability to deal with this stupid Ai. He should be able to deal with anything that was not made directly by a ancient belenosian scientists. Or even some of them with the time and leeway he has had.

Tell him its a great piece of software. But do point out the possible weaknesses in its design to the guy. You need to stay on the straight and narrow or your hive will suffer. If this thing gets in there and goes Rogue because the RS made its smarter you want your objections on file now.

If Glitcher is alive he will stay hidden and do exactly what you told him to do. Wait for opportunities and keep you out of the loop. Don't expect to see or hear from him again for a long time.
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No. 765170 ID: 211d83

Oh before I forgot have something I want to say to Likol.

You said this guy is inexperienced but learns fast enough to scare you? Don't be.

He is young and has had access to advanced tech and the combined knowledge of two empires since he was a child. The best schools and the best tools.

When he was young he learned proper math and programming and had actual trained teachers with access to every database that exists. You had nothing to go on but your hives memories and had to invent your tools from scratch in the fucking jungle. Your hive lived in a stone era society running for your lives and you still managed to invent technology that the rest of your people could not even dream of.

And now here you are working on the most advanced programming systems that exist anywhere. You are self trained and learned all this late in life but you are smart enough to stand with the best.

If this guy knows anything about your age and history I guarantee he is looking at you with respect. So stand tall and remember that you got here without any of the conveniences that your Belenosian counterparts had.

And if any of them ever look down on you remind them of this fact.
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No. 765183 ID: b412df

If that box can emulate the RS, I wonder if it can be used to contain RS based AIs like Glitcher? Move them out of Vanski's oh so precious CAI blocks into a safer home.

Also, if they've had access to a AI that can interface with the Ring Shell, why haven't they been using it to decode it or affect the contest / Block C, to try and produce loyal CAIs?
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No. 765187 ID: bfb318
File 148147535894.png - (47.57KB , 800x800 , 158.png )
765187

>He's going to kill you
I've been nervous about this situation, but I feel like if they were going to kill me, they would not have sent a lone scientist to do so. It would not have alarmed me if his guard followed me here, or at least, it would not have been out of the norm. Unless this scientist is holding particularly strong weapons under his coat, I doubt he could kill me on his own.

Plus, I doubt Vanski would care to do it off in private. If he were to do something so overt as to kill me, he'd want my hive to know exactly why it happened.

>But how's the opinion of him among his kids and his non-neumono connections?
It's seemed cordial, but us neumono have been kept out of the loop for years, and we don't have a realistic idea of it.

>Why do these people think they can do business with him, is what I'm asking. How has he not blown up his whole base five times already if he behaves like this.
The OPA bases only allow the most strict individuals use of its network. Although the nukes may have launch capabilities for other uses, I believe that part of their use is to blow up their own base if it's about to be discovered. Although this isn't a recognized OPA base, it may become one, and it also might be linked to them.

So it's not that they want to do business with Vanski because he's like this. It's that Vanski has to be like this to do business with them.

Which explains why he might have changed over the years, but at the same time, it seems like he's embraced whatever culture he's entered. His obsession with control doesn't feel like acting.

>Where are your glasses?
I have them, but the last few days, I've been in front of computer screens much, much less. They've healed to the point where, currently, I don't need them.

>Scared by him learning
Although it is a bit intimidating, most of my fear about this man is that he might be able to clear out the glitcher.

Even if the Glitcher is able to beat this AI, I can't imagine how he could possibly do so and stay hidden.

"Raush, at a glance, this AI you've made is amazing, did you just make it?"
>"Oh, the AI's been around with us for a long time, but until we've seen your data and knowledge, we weren't able to inject it into an RS despite the eventual hope that we could. Well, I guess we still don't know if it'll work, but it should!"
"It may just. But you haven't seen much of Block C, correct?"
>"No. Isn't it just a a side oepration of the RS?"
"Yes, and that's why it's taught me a lot about the RS. There are entities in Block C that started off non-sentient, but became sentient later. Block B individuals are just blueprints, but given sentience by the RS. Your AI, it's just a step away from becoming sentient. The glitcher was changed in some ways by taking over the RS. What I'm getting at is that your AI has an overwhelming chance of being made sentient, and most worrisome, is that one of the things that's blocking its route to sentience is a few overriding traits, like, say, great loyalty."
>"Ah, you have a good point, but in a way, that is needed. This AI of mine couldn't live in the RS normally, and much of the idea is for the RS to fill in the gaps so that it can. But it's not just a simple, normal AI with a loyalty override. That's only insurance, but if that is removed and the AI is made sentient, it still has its own personality. Inside and out, it's a personality made to be in line with our goals, and made to be agreeable and negotiable. Even when we wiped its memory as a sentient thing, it got along with us well. It has let itself be cut and paste many times, just so that at the end of it, we could take the 10th iteration and investigate its thought process and confirm that although it does have some self preservation, it places any scientific gain above itself. And yes, we did confirm it through looking at its thought process, not just taking its word for it. For the RS to remove all that personality would be like rewriting the AI, which it didn't appear to go so far to do."
"No, but if Glitcher is still part of the RS, then it's no longer the same RS. Glitcher could take over an inexperienced AI like this in handful of nanoseconds Hm, but at the same time, is your box able to hold RS AI's?"
>"Hm, no - rather, not yet. Someday I hope to see that happen, but right now, it's just a one way ticket. In any case, Vanski is letting the RS operate as normal while we try and replicate what made Cycle 3119 what it was, so that we can duplicate it later. He wants us to go ahead and inject this AI while the RS is still connected to almost nothing at all, and it's still safe to do so."
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No. 765188 ID: bfb318
File 148147536764.png - (45.31KB , 800x800 , 159.png )
765188

He proceeds to go over a lot of RS details with me to make sure he's not missing anything in particular. He puts a copy of the AI onto a box that can be plugged into the CAI.

>"Okay, I'm going to want to try inserting this guy. I'll be back in about an hour! Could we meet here, then? I'll have whether or not the insertion was successful, and either way, I'll want to study it with you. Oh, I'll leave the laptop here so you can study our experiments, since it's only fair. Just be careful! There's a lot of data on it, so don't just go opening random AIs."

Even if glitcher can stop him, I wonder if I just paved the way for the empire to inject their AI into their own CAI blocks. If they manage that, then they really will have something like the glitcher to crack the RS for them. I doubt Vanski would like that, but for completely different reasons, the thought that the SE will be the ones to have the RS at their call is... disgusting.
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No. 765190 ID: 3abd97

>Even if glitcher can stop him, I wonder if I just paved the way for the empire to inject their AI into their own CAI blocks.
You didn't, at least not in this moment. He didn't change or revise his AI based on any advice you just gave him.

And you don't have the ability to stop him from plugging his tool in. I mean, you could break the laptop or the drive he loaded it on, but they have to have backups of this stuff. They wouldn't send people into the field with their only copies. And he would back his project up before injecting it into an RS and maybe losing it or having it hacked.

(You could kill him to try and deny the ASE his mind, but they have other people, and there's no way you could cover up a murder).

Vanski paved the way by letting them look at your research. You could have only stopped that by never giving them a reason to work together- by pushing the reset button days ago and knowingly murdering more people than the rest of the galaxy put together.
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No. 765191 ID: 211d83

Well if Vanski might dislike what he is about to do be sure to give Vanski a call and let him know what this guy is about to experiment on the RS.

Don't put any spin on the report just let him know that this Ai could give them there own pseudo Glitcher if it worked. If he wants to keep his edge on Cai tech he might have you sabotage this guys efforts.

As for paving the way you just gave him some advice. This was going to happen sooner or later. Don't beat yourself up to much.

So make the call to Vanski and unless he has something for you to do spend time browsing this laptop. I don't suppose you have a big old thumb drive in that bag you could use to make a copy of there data to study later? I don't think Vanski would disapprove of that (as long as you are not caught). Might help make up for your "mistakes" with Glitcher if you can get him some new tech from your "allies".

But do watch for security on the laptop that would log or prevent such transfers.
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No. 765197 ID: 49fe0f

So, what, its highest loyalty is to science? If Glitcher learned a lot from the altruistic AIs inside Cycle 3119, that seems like something he could work with. I mean, there's a reason why a lot of the top scientists in the galaxy are entirely happy to work within the bounds of the law. I think these ASE types have a lot less pure rationality mixed into their ideals than they like to think. They likely also have more emotional concerns that drive them, pride and personal ambition and fear and such, which an AI - particularly one with its personality reset the way Glitcher's was, plus the troubled introspection he seemed to develop - wouldn't necessarily share. They might overestimate how readily such an AI would see the light of their glorious ideals. Say, if these guys want to emulate their old empire so much, shouldn't they consider AIs as superior to organic beings?

I'm mildly suspicious that he's so freely leaving his laptop here, if this big network organization is so big into security. He did say look at his experiments, though, so you're free to do that. Do it, then, and tell us if there's anything interesting. I wonder, though. If this guy's so keen into RS stuff, does he have contact with Arza? In case there's some monitoring program running on that computer, wait until you find something that would remind you of him (should be easy to find anything like that, if he's the granddaddy of the field), then run a general search for his name, look him up in the contacts list. Maybe you'll find some contact info.

... Actually you could probably just fire up the active processes monitor on the laptop and see if there's anything running in the background.

You're kind of starving for news of the outside world, too. See if he's downloaded any scientific publications, reports about experiments, the latest scientific community gossip, check his internet cache for news sites, anything that could give you a wider view of events. At the very least it would be expected of you to want to keep up with the latest academic literature.
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No. 765198 ID: e22b1d

Your options for helping Glitcher are few to none right now Likol. You did everything you could for him and now its time to have faith in his abilities.

Right now focus on doing your job properly so you can get back into Vanski's good graces. Keeping your access and proving your loyalty will do more to help Glitcher and the Ai's than anything else right now. Why? Because without that you won't be in a position to ever help him if you are stuck on engineering duty for the next few months.

As for what you could do right now? Report to your boss that the new Ai team is about to go experiment on the RS. Mention the possibility that this test could give there team the data needed to make there own loyal Glitcher if it works.

If he is as controlling as he seems he will not like the idea of loosing his edge to a outside team.

Also copy all the data you can off this laptop if you can do it safety and secretly. If it were Vanski or a older Belenosian handing you this I would assume it was a trap to catch you doing just that. But this guy seems to be young and idealistic enough to not be used to the cutthroat society of higher academia yet. The idea that you would steal all his data because your boss wants to one up him might not have occurred.

But still watch for security Ai's on the laptop.
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No. 765202 ID: 49fe0f

>>765198

If he is young and idealistic at this point, it might be nice to try keep some of that in place. For example, the way he talks about the AI he made, he seems to emphasize that it wants to be the way it is. Rationalization, perhaps? In any case, he's one more person who has now met Likol personally and could develop a relationship with him. If he sees this fellow scientist who he respects and who gives him helpful contributions to his own projects then that's one more person who Vanski has to think about if he ever considers doing away with Likol or his hive. Cutthroats and creeps these ASE guys may be but they have ideals, if terrible ones, and doing away with a valuable scientist for insufficient reasons is something that would drive a wedge between them and Vanski.

... Though at this point it feels like giving Vanski too much credit that he would consider such things.
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No. 765263 ID: 2120ee

>>765188
Have you thought that perhaps Glitcher didn't just die but... killed himself? Think about it, he had these innumerable other lives counting on him, and although he almost certainly hadn't even met the vast vast majority of them, some of them were very important to him.

If all those people dear to him died, would he want to continue living? What would be the point of hiding out? If he'd decided to recreate anyone he missed, it seems doubtful he'd have the presence of mind to stay hidden waiting for an opportunity with his personality.
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No. 765284 ID: bfb318
File 148151809004.png - (17.21KB , 800x800 , 160.png )
765284

"Hold on, you have no backups of these on other computers?"
>"Not yet! We can't just throw info like this on any random backup when we feel like it. We've been extremely careful. Oh, there are three hard drives in that laptop, and the make periodic automatic backups, of course, but all of the work I've been doing to get it to get into the RS is on that thing."

He starts to move again, then looks back at me.

>"... needless to say, don't go testing the laptop's water resistance, okay?"

He says it like a half joke that is actually as serious as it gets.

"Are you related to - er, have you studied with Arza Fletch?"
>"No, but I'm very familiar with his work. I'd love to meet him some day. People who have met him say I may rival him someday, and those are the kindest words I've got! Apparently I've got a knack for RS study, and I'm highly valued by my peers for that purpose."
"Do you have no equals?"
>"Not in my field! The only reason why I'm not the head of the CAI research group is because of my inexperience, and just office politics. You know how... maybe you don't?"
"I at least know of politics."

>Kill him
...... maybe it's the sleep deprivation, but if he hasn't had a chance to make proper backups yet.... and while they have this AI on other computers for certain, if he's the only one capable of realizing how to insert this AI into an RS, then...

That's reckless. That's such a reckless idea. I'm not leaving here until those thoughts are gone.

He takes his leave, and I take a look at the laptop. There are scientific papers that are far more recent than what I've had access to. I run any background processes to see if there's any AI, but I don't believe that there is. There is a lot of sensitive info on here, and I wonder if this is a trap, but I bring out my own thumb drive and start copying data to it. If it was a trap, then it's a silent one.

>Have you thought that perhaps Glitcher didn't just die but... killed himself?
Despite a few things I've heard, he didn't seem suicidal. Moreso, Block C did not have a full reboot. If the Glitcher is still alive, the chances of his close friends dying are virtually nil.
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No. 765285 ID: bfb318
File 148151815446.png - (24.47KB , 800x800 , 161.png )
765285

I walk with Raush's laptop to find a phone and get in contact with Vanksi. It takes some time, but that's not surprising.

>"Yes?"
"It's Likol. Raush is on his way to insert an AI directly into the RS. If it works, you may have a pseudo glitcher. One they'll think is superior to biological life, for sure. Specifically, they'll realize how to make one themselves and have a loyal glitcher on their hands."
>"Thank you for the notice, but I just finished an advance phone on that topic. They're pleased by the current breakthroughs. They are a shadow organization for the aggressive expansion of technology, and they don't want fame or fortune beyond what the need to run their experiments. Therefore, details aside, they will concede all RS breakthroughs and applications to me, and in return, I will fund many of their experiments. After all, they would rather see a fully understood RS in the matter of months rather than wait untold years to have to do it themselves."

It seems odd since it seemed like they were close to being able to do it themselves, with Raush's mind. I have to remind myself though that he was valleys and deserts away, in reality. The leaps he made these last three days were just because of his insane ability to absorb all of our data and create a long spanning bridge to where we're at now, but without that data, he would have a long ways to go, so I suppose what Vanski says makes sense, even if it's a reflection of values that seem foreign to me.

>"Therefore, unless you hear differently, cooperate with Raush and help him as though you are on the same team."

He elongates the pronunciation on the last word, like he's about to say something else. I wait for it.

>"If the Glitcher is not dead already, he will be by the time we're through with the RS, along with the rest of Block C. Are you even morally able to assist Raush?"

What a thing to ask, three days after the shutdown.
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No. 765289 ID: 595d54

Did he end up blaming you for that, or were you warnings posthumously appreciated?

"If I thought I would make a significant difference, the question would be much harder. But I am confident in Raush's talents and I value my hive highly."
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No. 765290 ID: 398fe1

>>765285
Tell it to him straight. If Glitcher really is dead then there is no hope for the simulation and there's no one that can stop it from being wiped. If Glitcher's not dead then he's likely become so skilled at manipulating the RS that no matter what this new AI does it won't kill him, and he'll have found a way to save the others too.

So either there's no hope for them, or Glitcher has already won. So you'll assist Raush. In that way there may be hope to redeem your hive in Vanskii's eyes.
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No. 765301 ID: 3abd97

>Are you even morally able to assist Raush?
"The death of one person, who may already be dead anyways, weighs little on me compared to what was already lost."

Your only real angle here is to let Vanski think you're too broken to care about the AIs anymore. You failed so damn many, what does Glitcher matter?

>can't possibly kill Raush
...I wonder if the CAI, or Glitcher acting through the CAI, could ensure he had a believable accident if they overhead what a threat he was.
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No. 765303 ID: 398fe1

Oh. It's also possible, maybe, that these guys are actually sympathetic with the contestants' plight. Did you consider that they could be allies? Ones that Vanski can't run lie detector tests on? And they're keeping you in the dark because obviously you'd out them as such?
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No. 765309 ID: a8bc5c

...Yeah, Vanski's going to do an archcycle reset next "just to be sure."

>>76530
Yeah, let's go with this. See if we can get raush to smuggle out what, by his standards, would be an absolute goldmine in sentient AI's before Vanski removes them from existence.
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No. 765328 ID: 398fe1

>>765309
You messed up the post reference, there.
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No. 765339 ID: 49fe0f

"Morality doesn't have to enter into it. Some day, "what they need to run their experiments" might involve cutting open our or your brains to understand and alter them, the way they've done to their AIs, and I don't want me or my hive to end up on the examination table, as I'm sure you don't want you or your family to. Morally, though? I don't like it, but I've lived a long time. I'm "morally able" to do a lot when I need to. Torturing and killing billions stretched me, especially on top of losing all the potential that came with them, but just one can't do much more, if I must."
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No. 765341 ID: 850f11

I don't know sir.

I can't help feeling how I feel. If I could just shut off my emotions for this project I would have days ago. While I can live with the idea of Glitcher being destroyed after what he did all the other Ai's in there don't deserve this.

I am happy with the breakthroughs we are making but the costs are tearing me up inside.

So where do I go from here?
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No. 765342 ID: db0da2

If he's dead, then he's beyond my ability to help him, and if he's alive he's beyond my ability to hinder him.
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No. 765356 ID: bfb318
File 148156583910.png - (16.03KB , 800x800 , 162.png )
765356

"If the glitcher is dead, then I have no hope for the rest of the simulation. If the Glitcher is alive, then he's developed a level of competence and patience so refined, that I doubt I could do much to hinder him."
>"Do you remember when we met? I allowed all of you much more freedom, and we rose to levels neither of us dreamed of over the course of your uplift. Much like a growing corporation needs more and more bureacracy to keep its ship intact, I felt more and more need to be in full control, since the business we've entered pries at any loose bolts."
"Where is this going, Vanski?"
>"Again, at this rate, the glitcher will die. The more we wait, the more drastic the measures will be, as well as the more sophisticated they'll become. Where this is going... Kiiu spoke to me of the RSAI, but I dismissed his ideas at first, thinking him too lax when the eyes of OPA are on us for having an RS. But I admit I have doubts to my decisions regarding the RS AI, and have to think about another thing he spoke of. About running a ship as tight as I do. He said it's better to let it loosen up so that it may bend during rough waters, as otherwise it will snap in half."

Again, the elongation of his last word makes me wait.

>"I cannot say much due to your nature, but let me ask you one thing. If we believe the Glitcher and all of block C is alive and well, how far are you, and your hive, willing to go to save them?"
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No. 765357 ID: 595d54

>>765356
You don't care about them more than you care about yourself or especially your hivemates, but you still care about them a great deal.

What is Vanski using this as leverage for?
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No. 765362 ID: 49fe0f

"So long as my hive lives, and those lives remain worth living... very far, I'd say. But mysteries make me nervous, as I imagine you felt yourself, when I spoke to you about the RSAI, before. The longer I work with you, the more I feel that I don't know what your long-term goals are, what situation you hope to achieve in ten, fifty, a hundred years. Our experiments thrill me as a scientist, but when I consider ramifications and consequences beyond simple discovery, I have trouble seeing profits to outweigh the risks, and I can't help but be worried. If you maintain the sort of secrecy you show us with all of your business relations, I'm sure others feel the same way."
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No. 765363 ID: 850f11

Just be honest with him. He will find out eventually.

I am starting to view these Ai like Arza does. As my hive's confused little children.

They are like a new born egg. Weak and vulnerable with there empathy searching for someone to take after. So I want to protect them and mentor them until they can grow up.

While my relationship with them is new and untested I would like it to continue.

My hive will be willing to go to great lengths to save them if you give us the chance. We work better when we are happy and our recent failures in both this and other projects for you have cast a cloud over things.

We love what we do and want to keep doing it. But as a species that evolved to have empathy built into everything we do we can't help how we feel. I know some of the Belenosian scientists can be completely amoral in the pursuit of science but we can't.

But its that group empathy that has let us make advances faster than any lab out there. It's our group connection that lets us make discoveries in so many fields at once.

Anyways to your question we would be will go far to save them if given the chance. And the proper opportunity would improve our hives mood greatly.
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No. 765364 ID: 3abd97

>>765356
That metaphor usually used trees rather than ships, but okay.

>If we believe the Glitcher and all of block C is alive and well, how far are you, and your hive, willing to go to save them?
You already know I don't believe systematically generating and murdering trillions of sapients for this research is worth it.

I've already gone as far as I could. I tried to stall out and study the cycle we had, and give you a discovery worth that cost to make it possible. Then it all blew up in our faces.

tl;dr- Honestly without making a threat at further action, since as you are right now, there isn't any further you can go. Though there will be.
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No. 765369 ID: 7d8168

I believe if it comes to war, a winner's already been decided. By that logic, I won't stick my neck out at all to save them. Any actions I take to protect them would just endanger myself and my hive with no effect on the outcome.

I'd rather not to be put in that position, Vanski, but whether or not I am, my actions won't matter so I may as well do nothing.
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No. 765370 ID: 211d83

Oh man he is going to cause a accident and kill this guy if you say yes. Just what you were thinking about earlier I bet. Then you owe him and he can blame it on the mess here and you can steal the laptop he just gave you.

Vanski gets free Ai data from the empire and makes you happy and keeps the possibility of learning a ton of breakthroughs from you studying the contest.

It's a long shot but if I was a evil mastermind this would be one of my options.
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No. 765372 ID: 398fe1

>>765356
Tell him you and your hive would give their lives to save them, if you had a chance. But you don't. Maybe a hunger strike and a regular strike would work, though.

Can't he just leave them alone? Glitcher has chosen to hide since fighting and talking didn't work. He's put in better security measures to keep the RS from hacking the rest of the complex. Isn't that enough control?
>>
No. 765373 ID: db0da2

As far as we can go, which doesn't seem to be all that far at the moment.
>>
No. 765374 ID: db0da2

>>765373
This question is probably safe to answer honestly. He's likely asking this to confirm something he's about to do right now like >>765370, if he were doing this to gauge how much he can us the AIs as leverage against us or something similar he could just interrogate us using neumono.
>>
No. 765375 ID: 398fe1

>>765374
Heh, we could just say "why not interrogate us again and find out?"
>>
No. 765388 ID: e6e9af

>>765356

What if the possibility is that he's trying to inform you that the ASE is attempting an actual takeover, or could be put into a position to remove Vanski? But only if they successfully "capture" (or compromise) the ring shell?

He acted drastically with Glitcher and that turned out very poorly. Now he could be hoping to use Glitcher and the others to combat whatever threat he isn't saying.

... and I suspect he cannot say it outright without putting everything in a lot of danger.
>>
No. 765404 ID: bfb318
File 148158268577.png - (15.51KB , 800x800 , 163.png )
765404

>That metaphor usually used trees rather than ships
The salikai have tended to use analogies more to talk with others than they use amongst themselves, so I feel as though the salikai don't naturally feel as much of a tendency to use them, and when they do, it's a deliberate attempt. Much like when old people try to learn and partipate in the culture of young adults.

"We would be willing to go very far. Both me and my hive." I say, opting for a plainer truth. "But it doesn't seem like there's very far we can go."
>"That's what I find concerning. Your hive's mood has suffered over these years, and I have not given it much thought until recently. What I'm looking at now looks ilke a broken down hive."
"We're still scientists at heart. We still will like doing what we do."
>"But the costs don't appear to be in your favor. You are all highly emotional beings, and your work will suffer even if you do your best to ignore your feelings. I had not thought of you all as a beacon of morality, but it seems that somewhere along the line, that changed."
"Maybe we are like Arza after all, or at least me. That those AI's are like my children. If we were given the chance, I don't know what we wouldn't do about that."
>"By the way, where exactly are you?"
"Tunnel 40."
>"And where have you been sitting down to study Raush's laptop?"
"Still in tunnel 40, landmark 12."
>"Good, you are still familiarized with the extended map. I do not want people to get lost in there. That is a nice spot. Go back there and wait for Raush, study his laptop as best as you can."
>>
No. 765408 ID: bfb318
File 148158323041.png - (19.09KB , 800x800 , 164.png )
765408

I do as he says. I don't have much else to do at the moment. Eventually, I hear some fast paced commotion, and since I see glimpses of ASE specialists, I stay out of it. If Vanski needs something from me, he knows where I am. Raush comes back. He looks odd, and starts pulling something from out of his pack.

"Raush. How did the - "

Wait.

"Is that the C-"
>"Hush! I mean. Yes." he says, confirming that that is, indeed, the physical set of CAI blocks. "Keep it down. The AI insertion went fine mostly. They'll be studying it for awhile to make sure it went like how it looked. Or doing their best, anyway."
"... why."
>"Oh, right. During testing, uh... it all went as it was supposed to, except, some of the wireless equipment, despite it supposedly being turned off, uh spiked. We shut it all down hard and fast, but the RS should have had no access to them, but somehow managed a wireless connection where there didn't seem to be one. That spooked everyone pretty bad, and, uh... we don't think it's safe to have an RS in central base. We just had guards move a lot of the equipment here, but, this is going to be where we do some RS studies for a bit. There's guards posted everywhere out there. Er, none in vocal range here, since we might talk about things that no one should overhear, but, ah, there's definitely no way anyone can get in or out. They wanted you to know that. Oh, uh, in case you didn't know, this is a battery at the top, here, so it's still powered. Er, is this a safe place? There's water dripping from the - "
"The CAI blocks are water proof, as long as you seal the ports. That battery is, as well."

... is Vanski doing what I think he's doing? No, he can't be, I have no idea what he's doing.

The water running not 5 feet away from me is a 10 minute underground swim to the outside. As far as loyalty tests go, this is ridiculous even for him.
>>
No. 765409 ID: 0febec

>>765408
If this is a loyalty test, it means Vanski has gone WAY off the deep end already. Be cautious, whatever you do
>>
No. 765410 ID: 3abd97

>>765408
This has to be a loyalty test. There's no way the ASE wasn't briefed on your conflict of interests / acting out and weren't instructed to watch you. Knowing that you're sympathetic to the AIs means they'd never give you this kind of unsupervised access to the CAI. And Vasnki would certainly never trust you alone with it.

This has to be a test. That's probably not even the real CAI. It's got to be a mock up or decoy. Vanski wants to see if you'll try and take it and run.

Don't do it, Likol. Don't take the idiot bait.
>>
No. 765413 ID: 398fe1

>>765405
Is that the CAI Block? So, right now, the CAI isn't even connected to the facility? Or was it possible all along to separate the RS and Block C from the CAI? I thought it was all one device.

It looks like Vanski gave you the opportunity to run off with it, and he practically told you to do something drastic. However, this could be a uh, false rescue, so to speak. How feasible would it be for him to set up a fake block like this for you to "escape" with and hand over to someone who would take care of it, but in reality you haven't saved anyone at all? You need to verify what that is. Do some studies, appear to be cooperating with him. Tell him the area is secure. Like, you could tell him the water tunnel narrows so not even a Miklik could squeeze through. Then once you've verified that this is the real Block C (and it won't be destroyed by water), fucking run off with it as Vanski seems to want you to do. Uh, be sure to knock out Raush beforehand so he doesn't immediately sound the alarm.

Wait, once you're outside, where would you go? And how likely would it be for you to be caught before you can get to a safe place? Also, will the battery last long enough?
>>
No. 765414 ID: 850f11

I am sort of confused. Does that block hold the RS and the contest?

Cause it sort of looks like this is less of a loyalty test and more of a implied order to escape and save the Cai. Gives Vanski a way to regain some of your hives trust and loyalty without ruining his relationship with his new criminal buddies.

But honestly I have no clue.

Be it loyalty test or way of saving the Ai's how exactly will this work? Where will you put them? Where will you go? And with what Glitcher knew of Vanski how would Glitcher not take the info he has about him public?

If Vanski is testing you then its silly cause the base is in the middle of nowhere and you running with the Cai would be pointless. If he is willing to let you save them then you can expect a ride after your swim.

Honestly I think you should just call back Vanski and ask what's up. Even if he has to strap a coded sticky note to a arkot and send it down here to avoid saying anything over unsecured lines.
>>
No. 765415 ID: bfb318

Last bit of dialogue on the last post has been added to; as Likol was supposed to interrupt him explaining that the CAI blocks were water proofed.
>>
No. 765419 ID: 398fe1

Wait, wouldn't Vanski have simply put guards at the other side of that underwater tunnel, if this was a loyalty test? Seems pretty low-risk in the end, both for him and you, because you can claim it sounded like he wanted you to do it, for unknown reasons. Is it possible for him to deny knowledge of the underwater tunnel?

One reason I can think of for him to want you to steal it is so he can blame ASE for lax security and make them get him a replacement. Then he'd be able to do research without having to deal with a glitchy RS. Also if he got the glitchy RS into the hands of his enemies he could expect it to eventually punch holes in their security, which would be advantageous to Vanski. Is Vanski the kind of person that would do that?
>>
No. 765420 ID: 49fe0f

He's "uh"ing a lot. If he's relaying lies he's been told to tell you, you might be able to make him crack with questioning. Ask him about the wireless spike, what exact piece of equipment it was that activated, where it was, how long/information-dense was the transmission, who's "they" specifically, et cetera. Is it possible that something just got powered on and activated a dormant program Glitcher had placed there as one of his contingencies? Comment on him seeming nervous. Maybe take the chance to say something like "I guess I'd be nervous too if I was potentially holding a billion lives literally in my hands", to gauge his feelings on that.

Looks smaller than I'd have expected.

I think Vanski wants you to run with it. I also think he expects your hive to be willing to make a show of being punished for it, harshly, and then to be happy about it because it's what you wanted. He might also be expecting you to kill Raush, rather than just knocking him out. Though that would likely result in a harsher punishment. You would also probably need your personal death faked, if you intended to ever return to your hive. If you did kill or knock him out, you could take the moment to hook up the blocks to his laptop, to be sure. You'd already be in trouble, after all. Perhaps you could fake some giant crocodile monster splashing up out of the water and grabbing you. One would assume that would make noise someone could hear, though. What a tangle.

Where would you go, if you escaped? Do you know enough to navigate to civilization? Perhaps you could go to Arza. You are supposed to be meeting up with him and a younger Penn, soon.
>>
No. 765422 ID: 91ee5f

He's nervous and looking off to the side. Is someone on the other side of that cave wall and holding a gun to his head or something?

Regardless, something that important must have some sort of tracker on it. If it is the real thing and you ran off with it, Vanski would just track you down. If it's fake, then you're just running off with the world's biggest tracking device. You're better off not running off with it.
>>
No. 765423 ID: 5b93d3

>>765410
>This has to be a loyalty test. There's no way the ASE wasn't briefed on your conflict of interests / acting out and weren't instructed to watch you.
Hmmmmm. Vanski != ASE. He called them in, but he may now be realising that after he disabled all his own defences, the ASE can just waltz in and TAKE his work, rather than him bargaining with them. This may be his attempt to pull the CAI blocks back out from under the ASE, using 'whoops, the Neumono researching them totally got too attached and stole the CAI blocks, oh dear, I am so disappointed, etc'.

The downside is, he will both want to the cAI blocks back again, and will have no compunction actually punishing the hive for the theft. This likely is indeed a real opportunity to escape with the CAI blocks. It is also likely going to the sacrificing your hive to do so, and Vanski will shortly be in pursuit (as will the ASE in all likelihood).
>>
No. 765425 ID: a107fd

>>765414
>call back Vanski and ask what's up

In a suitably circumspect way. The ASE guys probably don't have the map internalized yet, so use that as code. "Once we're done here, am I supposed to head straight back along tunnel 40, or check out those bolts you mentioned from the library? It'd only take about ten minutes."

To a casual listener, it sounds like you're submitting to micromanagement, and asking about a petty mechanical-repair chore unrelated to AI, except to the extent that it's probably a result of some damage caused by the failsafes. However, in the context of the previous conversation with Vanski "those bolts you mentioned" would refer to thoughts about loosening up the tight ship, and "check out [X] from the library" would clearly mean "leave the premises, while carrying valuable information, with the owner's express permission."

If it's a loyalty test, calling it in isn't the best possible response (perfect score would be to do exactly what the boss wants without needing to be told) but still almost certainly a passing grade. If this is a genuine getaway opportunity, the window probably won't close just because you took a moment to confirm.
>>
No. 765428 ID: 211d83

Raush seems awful uncertain about things. Either he is involved in the act or he is just nervous about the show Vanski just put on.

Is this Vanski's way of letting you save the Ai? Or some more complex confusing plan dealing with your hive and his various "allies"?

If you "escape" you would have to get the cai somewhere safe and out of the way. But that sounds impossible unless Vanski has a team with a car waiting at the other side of the underwater tunnel. Plus you don't exist in the outside world and Glitcher and the contest have info on Vanski's dealings that are pretty damning. Where would they live? Who would hide them?

So this is not a loyalty test but maybe him giving you the option to save the contest? But at a price. Vanski can blame its loss on you and will have to slap your hive on the wrist and punish them a bit where the ASE can see it for awhile. But he can't tell you anything due to your being a neumono who can't really lie. (which is ruined by you realizing this is some complex plan he set up. If anyone questioned you after the fact you would read yes if they asked "did Vanski order this"

Anyways how would you survive outside? How would you come back? Or get the Cai to safety? Or anything really?

Is Glitcher and the Contest even on this block or is it a dummy system? Is this a ploy to get Glitcher to talk to you so they can trap him or find out if he is still alive? Who knows what sort of plans Vanski is working up.

I would take it slow. Grill Raush for info on the spike and what equipment we have to work with and have fun chatting with someone in your field for a bit. Get some guards to deliver some furniture. Then take a break to politely ask Vanski for more "concrete" orders. He probably won't/can't give you any more clues to his plan but is worth a shot.

Then sit down and decide if this is worth the risk. Cause even if Vanski gives you two thumbs (claws) up there is still a big risk.
>>
No. 765430 ID: df49f7

I wonder if Raush is idealistic enough, in his own way, to talk him onto our side. Since Likol has a chance now to sit down and talk to him a bit, maybe. Start off with something like "Sure is tragic, don't you think?" and when he asks what you go "Well, an RS AI is a big advancement, but I studied logs of communication between Glitcher and the Block C AIs in the "contest" sim. I got a very strong sense that they'd learned to control their simulation completely. Glitcher seemed to lose such controls when he was reborn in the RS, trading for his control over that, but the ones inside surely kept their advances, or even improved on them. Imagine the possibilities! These CAI blocks are far in advance of any computer we can make, but we've only ever been able to make them do one thing, with relatively small variations. We could have had thousands of AIs, as smart or smarter than us, able to command their system to run programs and simulations far beyond anything our technology is capable of, in an accelerated timeframe where one of our days is hundreds of their years. And able to communicate with us. Such a shame."

If you can poke him a bit to see how he feels, along those lines, maybe try a bit of the essential ethical conundrum as well, maybe he'll show signs of being willing to play along with a little... scenario, of yours. A few shouts, a big splash, and Raush telling the guards that some large wild critter snatched you and the CAI Blocks from the edge of the water. A terrible accident.
>>
No. 765459 ID: 595d54

Likol, how old is Quokka?
>>
No. 765524 ID: bfb318
File 148160682187.png - (66.51KB , 800x800 , 165.png )
765524

It seems like an obvious loyalty test, yet at the same time, it's incredibly heavy handed. It's like an idiot test. Vanski has treated me like a lot of things, but an idiot is not one of them. This just doesn't seem right, and if it really is a loyalty test, then he's really gone off the deep end.

>So, right now, the CAI isn't even connected to the facility?
It hasn't been. There's no way to disconnect the RS without also disconnecting the CAI itself. We haven't been using the CAI at all to rebuild, as a result.

If that is the real thing, then that does hold both the RS and the currently active CAI.

>Once you're outside, where would you go?
I don't know. I would probably have to find Arza, because he's the only person I know who has both the connections and willingness to save the AI. I don't know where he is, but he has a strong public image, and should not be too difficult to find, although approaching him is a challenge itself. The rest of the galaxy, well... I don't want to believe the surface world would just try to wipe them away as well, but at the same time, AI have very little rights, so it's not promising.

>And how likely would it be for you to be caught before you can get to a safe place?
Assuming this isn't all one big trap, I could realistically make it out. They would pursue me, and how, but by the time they could get a search going, I'll have already made good ground.

>Do you know enough to navigate to civilization?
Yes. I have maps of the surrounding regions. Also, despite that it's been awhile, I am still a pre-uplift neumono at heart. I can survive in the wild.

>Also, will the battery last long enough?
Yes, this is a strong battery that could power the RS for a couple of weeks. We normally use a weaker but far more stable, sturdy battery in case the power supply is broken up, but this one is still strong.

Hopefully that will give me at least long enough to find a power outlet, where I can recharge the battery easily.

>Is it possible for him to deny knowledge of the underwater tunnel?
Yes. The hard copies of maps of these extended areas are well hidden by Vanski. Most of us have to memorize them.

I whisper to excuse myself from the room for a moment, and sneak out. By staying quiet, I confirm there are no guards secretly hanging around the corner. I walk normally, then, to try to make a call to Vanski, but he doesn't answer.
>>
No. 765525 ID: bfb318
File 148160683498.png - (40.68KB , 800x800 , 166.png )
765525

>How old is Quokka?
I believe 204, now. We aren't one hundred percent certain of that, but that's our best guess, and what we settled on.

I go back to work with Raush. I grill him on the specifics of what the AI had, and he answers well. From what he has said, I think he was just nervous about handling the physical CAI blocks into an area so far from base. Which is fair, as it is like carrying a transparent bag filled to the brim with cash through a bad part of a big town at night. The details, although some are missing, seem to hold up. The wireless connections supposedly made apparently just made a log in and started looking through file before some of the ASE software detected the intrusion, and shut down those machines immediately.

I also talk with him about his morals. He says he would sacrifice himself to adequately furthern the field, and expects that others should feel similarly. Although he isn't any self serving hypocrite, his morality doesn't line up with many. He sounds agreeable at face value, but I do not like how much he is willing to burn to shape the world.

We connect the CAI blocks to the laptop, which then reads many of the details. It looks like the real thing. I crossreference what I know versus what the output here is showing. Just random facts that would not be accurately represented if this were a hoax. But it seems real. I think this is the real CAI, and the real RS.

I doubt Vanski will talk to me about what he intended. If he makes it any more clear that he wants me to do something extreme, then when I inevitably get interrogated, it will go poorly for him if I'm confident that he gave me implied orders. If he wanted me to do this, then he would have to give me the orders in such a poor fashion that I couldn't be sure that that's what he did.

The more I think about it, the more unlikely I feel like this is a loyalty test. He isn't above those, but this is just too weird of one. Yet having me run off with the CAI also seems insane for him.

>And with what Glitcher knew of Vanski how would Glitcher not take the info he has about him public?
This is what bugs me the most. It's insanely risky for him. He's relying on me to not connect this thing to the internet, or forget to close up a port and waterlog it - well, I wouldn't do that. Still, I'm surprised he would rely on my misgivings about how the surface world would treat the glitcher. Then again, I already am leaning on giving it to Arza, so maybe he's right.

My heart wants to run, my brain wants... my brain is just confused, to be blunt. I can ignore this and just carry on and hope for the best, but it would be dangerous to just assume that the glitcher will be immune to everything they put him up against. Especially with someone with a head like Raush.

If I do run, though, I will have to decide what to do with Raush. Knock him out, at least, but under the all too realistic chance that I'm caught, and the RS is returned to Vanski or ASE hands, this man will keep working towards an event that will eradicate this archcycle to make room for an 'ideal' CAI. It's not as though Vanski and the ASE will give up without Raush, but it will set them back and buy time.

But maybe that's my latent violent tendencies rising up. I am, after all, a pre-uplift neumono at heart, no matter how scientifically obsessed.
>>
No. 765529 ID: ea7e16

So what would happen if you DID connect this block to the internet, out of curiosity?
>>
No. 765530 ID: 595d54

Okay. Conventional methods are too risky and they're not even close to guaranteed to work. So far, the normal stuff hasn't performed well for you. Vanski knows what you can usually do and he has you over a barrel. You have to try unconventional tactics.

Seduce Raush. He isn't going to join you for ideology or money, but you can at least seduce him. Both of you are intensely obsessed with the RS, that's great common ground. Whisper your best nerd talk about what you've observed of the RS into his ear, and do it breathily if you can. Reach for his crotch, preferably under his pants if they're loose enough. Then kiss him to shut up whatever he says in response and start stroking. Let things go from there.

It's probably your best bet.
>>
No. 765535 ID: c441c1

>>765530
why the fuck not. Go balls to the wall on his ass!
>>
No. 765536 ID: 398fe1

>>765524
>he doesn't answer
Then you are acting in good faith. Let's just assume Vanski wants you to steal it. For some reason. He might not let you actually escape with it, but will use the attempt for some goal. Heck, let's assume he wants you to TRY to steal it, but will stop you at some point. But in actuality you want to take it all the way.

>>765525
I don't know if Vanski wants you to kill Raush. It seems like it would set him back? Do it anyway, though. Maybe he thought someone would be guarding him. Or maybe this guy is a stooge and isn't actually the RS genius.

Grab a rock when he isn't looking, brain him with it, then dump him in the water so you don't have to splatter blood all over yourself. Then make the swim. If drowning his laptop is a good idea, do that too. You've got a thumbdrive of a bunch of stuff off it anyway (the thumbdrive is waterproof I hope? If not, oh well)
>>
No. 765538 ID: 3abd97

You're in the spire. If you ride the river out, you're going to be dumped alone, unarmed, with no supplies, in the middle of the jungle. You're really sure you can survive that? That's no picnic. Plus this is the middle of unaligned territory- not belonging to any ultrahive, inhabited by warhives.

If this isn't what Vanski wants, you have little to no chance of making a clean getaway. The OPA network is worldwide, and you do not know the full extent of their resources or who or where they have eyes watching for them. You would be found when you reach civilization.

>Go back there and wait for Raush, study his laptop as best as you can
...I wonder if there's a hidden or coded instruction for you on the laptop, the way he phrased it?

>what do
I'm still leaning "do nothing" or "bide your time". If shit goes down, you can always sock Raush, grab the CAI, and flee. But for now too much doesn't make sense, and this seems way too convenient.
>>
No. 765541 ID: 855334

>>765538
Can't just dive straight into the water and try to escape, Likol would need to take the time to seal up the ports for the cai block and the battery.
>>
No. 765544 ID: 91ee5f

>>765530
>Seduce Raush.
Hmmmm....you know, that plan is crazy. And yet, it's so crazy it just might work! Let's do it!
>>
No. 765547 ID: 90f3c0

>>765530
This seems like a perfectly reasonable plan.
>>
No. 765548 ID: a107fd

I'm voting against murdering anybody, to the extent it's reasonably possible to avoid. Just say "Huh, that's weird. You see that anomaly? I've got to go show this to Arza," then pick it up like that's the most natural thing in the world and jump into the water while Raush is still trying to figure out what anomaly you were talking about, since everything on the screen looked normal, and why he hadn't already heard that Arza Fletch was visiting somewhere within walking distance. Nerd-sniping FTW.

Speaking of plastic bags, could you wrap the CAI in a layer of something independently watertight before running off with it and diving into a river? For something so important, it makes sense to apply as much redundancy as possible.
>>
No. 765549 ID: bfea5f

>>765525
I think you are too obvious a target. Good news is, you're probably hogging most of Vanski's surveillance, so you could give a hivemate a chance to sneak by and run.
>>
No. 765553 ID: 855334

Liko? There are two scenarios that can happen if you KO/kill Raush, grab the cai block and it's battery and run.

1: vanski has guards waiting for you on the other end of the river for this eventuality.

2: he does not.

In scenario one, you can claim that you got really god damn spooked by the scenario you found yourself in and decided to get some distance between yourself and the ASE.

in scenario two... Well, you'll be in the jungle but you'll have block C. You can finally start atoning for all the horrific AI's that are dead if you can get to civilization.

You owe it to not only to yourself, but also the glitcher and everyone else residing in block C to flip that coin.

THIS IS YOUR ONLY CHANCE.
>>
No. 765554 ID: db0da2

I'm pretty sure Vanski wants you to steal the CAI block here. You basically told him that you would in that phone call. Bad things may or may not happen when you do, but at the very least, if you kill Raush and run, you'll make Glitcher a lot safer whether you escape with him or not.

Wait a little longer, and if nothing obvious comes up, then hit and run.
>>
No. 765555 ID: 40a317

Well, I don't like murder, but if you're really convinced you can't appeal to him with the potential scientific value of the Glitcher and the sim AIs - "those fools are too obsessed with safety to make REAL progress!!" - it looks like death might be the right course.

What's important is, if you do it, you do it right. You're a scientist, after all. You're civilized, now. You murder like a civilized person. So, first, you want to obfuscate the issue for as long as possible. You want them suspecting disappearance first. So, try kill him with as little blood as possible. If you're confident in your strength, you might grab his horns and snap his neck. A sharp impact to the head might also work, if you avoid the protection of the horns, but you want to avoid blood. You might also be able to strangle him, since non-neumono can't hold their breath that long.

Once you have him down, search him for anything useful, then consider tying his body to yours and pulling him along with you into the water - you have plenty of clothes, including his. You neumono are pretty dense, and you could weigh him down with his laptop. You should consider taking the laptop anyway - it won't be able to function itself after a dunk, most likely, but the storage might be retrievable. Whoever you end up going to could make use of it.

Once you get out the other end, you can take his coat, which should be useful for survival purposes or to wrap the CAI blocks in for added protection. You'll want to dispose of his body in a way that it won't be found. Tossing it in front of a sufficiently hungry predator could do, with the bonus that maybe that predator then won't come after you, though I wouldn't rely on it - your world's animals are likely to turn up alien flesh in favor of yours. You could also consider eating him yourself, as you'll need food, though I doubt you could manage enough for disposal purposes.

Keep in mind that, unless you've been keeping up a health regimen (which I don't rule out, since I'm sure you know the benefits, and seem a practical sort), your strength and endurance isn't likely up to the standards it was when you were a "wild" neumono.
>>
No. 765558 ID: 211d83

Even if you were a super commando with lots of supplies you would never make it far.

The spire is in the middle of nowhere and even with the current outages is swarming with people. You could do what exactly? Knock Raush over the head (which would probably kill him you know how fragile aliens are) and then jump into the river? With just a Cai block and a t-shirt?

You would have no food, no supplies, no weapons. While the people chasing you would have cars and drones and all sorts of things. You might be pre uplift but you have been a science nerd for how many years now? You should remember how hard it was to survive out there with your hive to help you.

And the biggest red flag of all is that for Vanski to want this he would have to trust the Glitcher to never reveal all the secret info he stole from Vanski's computers. Which he would never do. That data would get him and you killed so hard if it ever leaked.

Now if the setup is for you to "escape" and for Vanski to relocate you into a hidden older part of the spire so you can work on the Cai out of sight of his allies? That seems more likely. But actual escape? Its a fools dream and you will just hurt

So stay here and work with Raush. If this is not directly a loyalty test its some crazy scheme that can not end good.

But do seduce him. With Science.
>>
No. 765560 ID: df2e65

The idea of Glitcher being able to whistle blow is dependent on the notion that Glitcher actually downloaded evidence into the RS, rather than just reading it off the systems he was able to access. Any transmission of that information for his contingencies would have to be with those accessed systems too. Can data from these more primitive computers even be downloaded and stored in the RS? It may not be. And Vanski could have looked at the logs and seen whether any evidence files were transferred through the connections into the RS. I have doubts whether Glitcher would even have tried to download backups of any such evidence. What would have been the point? He'd never have expected Vanski to let anyone leave with the physical CAI Blocks.

So the blocks containing evidence is unlikely, and without it the Glitcher can give no more than a witness testimony. I'd wonder if AIs are even trusted as witnesses in any official legal sense. I have the feeling that any CAI Blocks with an active AI on them would be required to be put into quarantine for a long time.
>>
No. 765562 ID: e22b1d

Try to put yourself into Vanski's head for a moment Likol.

1. He can't let you leave the spire with that block. It's just not going to happen. The Cai is to important and has to much damning information on it for him to ever willingly let it out of his control.

2. If he really was considering letting the science hive having more leeway and protecting the Ai's he could go about it another way. In this sketchy scenario he is having you steal it. Which will let him put the blame on you and your hive.

3. Even if somehow he has had a magic change of heart and is a nice guy this idea is stupid. You jumping into a river with a crazy expensive machine? All it would take is a accident for you to slip and loose your grip and the Cai washes down the river and is lost. You can't plan for every contingency because stupid accidents happen all the time even to the best trained.

4. He can disavow you in a instant. That conversation was vague enough so no one would take your side.

But yet here you are and it does seem like he is pushing you to do something. If its a loyalty test is a crazy one. He probably has some other plans that rely on you being a idiot. Something with his allies or to change the status quo. The only legitimate plan that I could see him having that would rely on this farce of a escape is for him to pretend you escaped so he could set you up alone in a old power room in a abandoned part of the spire so you could keep the Cai on sight but make the ASE think it was stolen. Then he could have a secret Cai even his allies would not know about and possibly push for another set of blocks to be paid for on the ASE's dime cause they let you steal it.

Which actually seems like a decent idea? But still has to many risks.

So bide your time and seduce Raush and when Vanski walks in on you two making out and asks why you did not follow his obvious breadcrumb trail be all surprised and act shocked that his instructions were not to seduce Raush.
>>
No. 765567 ID: 395c02

Stupid salikai mind games. I have no idea what Vanski wants you to do, and I could buy that that's the whole point.

I'm vaguely leaning toward trying to make a break for it to see what will happen, but the obvious caveat there is that "what will happen" is quite possibly bad for you personally and with an even greater likelihood bad for people you care about...
>>
No. 765569 ID: 850f11

Dang you go to sleep early and suddenly everyone is trying to seduce the Belenosian. So why not roll with that idea.

So before you go on your traitorous trip lets walk through your amazing adventure in your head.

So you slowly set the mood and use your advanced knowledge of science and your oh so fuzzy body to seduce Raush. After wearing him down with your superior neumono stamina you leave him exhausted with a smile on his face in your love nest (Step 1. Acquire love nest from guards)

You then carefully seal up the cai and use your toolkit to remove the tracker that Vanski has no doubt placed in the new larger power supply. (Step 2. Acquire toolkit from guards)

Having bartered sexual favors with a hunky ASE guy for a backpack full of watertight food and several survival tools you carefully sneak into the river (Step 3. Trade sex for supplies)

Of course you have jumped into this perilous underground stream before and thus know there are no rapid currents or monsters that would get you hurt. At the end of your journey you emerge from the water to find a vehicle that Vanski so thoughtfully forgot about that allows you to not get quickly caught in the jungle (Step 4. Renew your drivers license)

You travel quickly and safely through miles and miles of virgin jungle. Avoiding tree snakes and Predators and all other manor of horrible monsters with ease. Also not getting caught by the numerous ASE people who have been sent out to find you. I mean 50 years ago you were pretty hot stuff right? I am sure sitting in front of a computer for 12 hours a day has not dulled your edge. (Step 5. Rambo it up in the jungle)

Finding civilization you manage to get a hold of Arza without anyone noticing. I mean why would they think you would go directly to Arza? That would be silly. He helps you relocate the cai blocks to safety from both the giant criminal empire that owned them and the world government who hates the idea of unfettered cai's in general. (Step 6. Now having a taste for belenosian dick you seduce Arza as well)

Glitcher helps you take down Vanski's empire and invents a new way of pre slicing bread that makes you enough money to live with your hive in luxury with your new Ai family. Of course Vanski did not hurt or threaten your hive while you were gone because he is not a criminal supervillain or anything. Your hive managed to sneak out the unguarded backdoor while you were seducing Raush. (Step 7. Live in luxury with your new belenosian science harem)

So think over this amazing plan for awhile. If you can also see no flaws in it then by all means start at step 1.

If you do see some flaws then maybe consider that this is a giant complicated mess set up by Vanski that does not have you our your hives best interests in mind.

The only plausible plan that Vanski could have that fits this setup is that he has a trusted team (of arkots?) ready to move you and the cai to a new hidden home in the spire. You still are under his control but you can do whatever experiments you want free from interference from Vanski's allies. But even that idea does not account for tons of variables.

So just start with seducing Raush.
>>
No. 765571 ID: df2e65

>>765569

You forgot the part where an adolescent Penn accidentally observes Likol's buff fluff going to work in his clandestine liason with Arza, and has her young mind irrevocably warped with an attraction to neumono, thereby creating a key twist in the timestream that will allow her to find boyfriends she can trust through Roxie's empathic readings, promoting both her mental well-being and the safety of the neumono species within any dominions she may or may not possess in the future.
>>
No. 765572 ID: 850f11

>>765571

Dang my plan is even better than I thought!
>>
No. 765588 ID: 398fe1

You know, if Vanski isn't planning to let you leave with the cai block, he might just be counting on you killing Raush.
>>
No. 765589 ID: 594c18

Yeah, this is clearly a setup. The only question is what Vanski actually wants out of it.

I think we're all agreed that it's way too obvious and crazy to be a loyalty test. So for whatever reason, Vanski wants you to take the opportunity. But since we don't know what he wants out of it, we also don't know if his goals line up with ours or not. Buuuut... Overall, I'd say, there's a better chance of a good outcome if you follow Vanski's wishes.
Also, if we're wrong and it is a loyalty test, believing he wanted us to take it may help us pass even if we fail.

So I'd say go for it. I'm going to disagree with some other suggestors though on a small point: if you decide that you should kill this guy rather than simply KOing him (don't seduce him, that's dumb), rather than destroying the laptop you should leave it for Vanski to recover. (Of course, that does assume there's someplace you can leave it that Vanski or one of his will find it rather than one of the ASEs.) Because we have no objections to cracking the RS, we just don't want the cracked RS in the hands of the ASE, right?
>>
No. 765593 ID: 594c18

Oh, hey, another thought: in that same Vanski conversation we have
>unless you hear differently, cooperate with Raush and help him as though you are on the same team.

I doubt that's an accident; we should ask Raush if he's intending to break out with the CAI blocks.

Of course, if he says no, we'll have to kill him. But if Vanski wants the CAI to escape but doesn't want people to know he wants that, it could make sense for him to have enlisted Raush to help him. Belenosians don't have empathy to worry about after all.

...of course, if Raush is in on it, he probably wouldn't be able to tell you...
>>
No. 765613 ID: bfb318
File 148166690117.png - (18.91KB , 800x800 , 167.png )
765613

>Seduce Raush
... he is not attractive to me, I doubt I am attractive to him. The SE probably look down on the mere concept of romance. I am not a romantic person. My attempts at seduction will be embarrasing for everyone involved.

Convincing him to kill himself would be easier. Deciding what is going to happen to him can wait.

I spend some time with Raush studying the RS some more. During this, I have the CAI blocks opened up, and confirm there are no tracking devices or anything like that inside. If there is one, then it's incredibly miniscule. Which is possible, but I'm well familiarized with the inside of this, and nothing is unsettling about its appearance.

In these times, I'm somewhat jealous of aliens for not having empathy.

I might not be in the best shape of my life right now, but the last 3 days at least had a lot of walking and moving equipment around, which helped my body remember what physical exertion was like. We lose our physical prowess easily, but we also gain it back easily.

What hasn't been lost as easily is my knowledge of jungles and places where I've ever lived, this place included. Wild animals here are often more predictable than some people make them out to be. There's a lot to consider, and tribals hives of old often only learned by sending in hivemates to die and just think that that's the way things are.

But it's like a solveable puzzle. Know enough, and the dangers become avoidable. It almost becomes safe. That being said, I would rather not go there with no weapons, food or tools to begin with. Plus, I would like to ensure things are waterproofed.

Even though I spend some time thinking it over, the more I think about it, the more I think I'm really going to do this. This ridiculous action would require a miracle to actually happen successfully, but the thought of just biding my time and hoping something will happen feels even worse. I think I would like to shoot for the sun with a slingshot.
>>
No. 765614 ID: bfb318
File 148166691019.png - (17.25KB , 800x800 , 168.png )
765614

I go to make a call.

>"Quokko speaking."
"Hello, it's Likol. How are you?"
>"Adequate, and you?" She sounds like garbage.
"Not dead. I'm going to be away from central base for a while, since I'm locked up over here. Probably not for several days, but I don't know. I was hoping to get some supplies. Do you have access to delivery arkots?"
>"Yes, though belongings being sent out are being scanned. " I would expect they're under a microscope. This conversation is probably recorded. Might even be monitored.
"That's fine. I want some leftovers. There should still be some salted fish, right?"
>"Yes. Want us to cook and prepare it?"
"No, I'll prep it myself. Do me a favor and throw me a carving knife and a few garbage bags, since I don't want to throw litter in the caves."
>"No trash cans over there, huh?"
"Not enough. I don't want to leave my place much or litter the caves, anyway. Oh, while you send some, please send a standard pack of computer tools as well, full mitt-hand." Mitt-hand being the term for a set of tools neumono use to plug small things into other small things. It also includes screwdrivers, pliers, and a few other basic things. "Lastly, a flashlight. Derby brand, please."
>"What for?"
"These caves aren't well lit in some areas, and they're wet in all areas. I don't trust these lights, either."
>"Anything else for your camping trip?"
"Yeah, some spare sets of clothes. May as well throw in a laundry rope so I can hang them out to dry if I end up just living here."

Maybe I should get something else. My own pack already has a map and compass for navigating these tunnels, but they will be helpful for the surface as well. It also includes my own laptop and writing utensils.

Still, I have to assume this call is being monitored, so I need to ask things that are completely plausible to get for the situation I'm supposed to be in. I can't ask for, say, a hunting rifle with a long suppressor with camo gear.
>>
No. 765617 ID: bfea5f

Ask for something that wouldn't be useful in leaving.
>>
No. 765620 ID: 595d54

I have no idea what would actually be practical, so I'll leave that to other people and focus on confusing whoever's listening in. Ask for... ketchup, popsicles, condoms, butter, butter, I Can't Believe It's Not Butter, a coat hanger, canned gravy, latex gloves, and a jar "just in case".
>>
No. 765622 ID: 398fe1

>>765614
How are you gonna use the laundry rope? Nail it to the walls? Or will they send some wooden poles to hang it on? How are you prepping the fish?

Blanket and pillow? Or a sleeping bag? What's Raush sleeping on? Maybe you can get something for him too. Heck, outright ask if he wants anything.
>>
No. 765623 ID: 850f11

Yell at Raush "Do you want me to get you a sleeping mat? We might be here a few days"

Have them add a sleeping bag or two as well. Also a hair brush and toiletries. No bathrooms down in the caves.

This call is most certainly being monitored. So if a arkot shows up with a rifle and some grenades to add to your order you know Vanski sent it.
>>
No. 765625 ID: 3abd97

>tracking devices not inside the CAI
How certain are you there's not one inside of you?

>supplies to ask for
Standard issue goggles. Science hivers use them all the time, but they'll help if you take the water exit.

Mounting kits for equipment. As if you're settling in here a few days and want to be able to screw things down instead of having it thrown around haphazardly. Could be used as improvised mountaineering equipment.

Capsaicin, or some other spice belenos are allergic to. Gives you an easy way to disable him if you can give him something that disagrees with him.
>>
No. 765626 ID: 601a59

Yes, ask for some belenosian food to be sent as well. Make it seem that if Raush disappeared he was ready to disappear with you.

Also tell her to give everyone your love and to keep a big chunk of it for herself.
>>
No. 765627 ID: b412df

Bedroll and hygiene kit? I think those have already been mentioned, so, got anything sentimental you want to bring? If you're making a break for it with the world's most valuable set of hardware, you might as well have something you're fond of to keep you sane.
>>
No. 765628 ID: 398fe1

>>765623
If we get a Mysterious Gift in the delivery maybe we should start assuming Glitcher set this whole thing up, not Vanski.
>>
No. 765630 ID: 398fe1

Hey how likely is it for tracking devices to get shoved into most or all of the supplies you request? I'd say pretty fucking likely, which means you can't take anything that could have chips hidden in them.

Heck are you sure you don't have a tracking chip implanted under your skin?
>>
No. 765645 ID: e6e9af

>>765628

You know, I was thinking about this ...

Considering that in the future-past the CAI has been known to emulate voices, it can be reasonably assumed that Glitcher is the one who did this, especially after the strange wireless incident. There's a very real possibility that we can actively metagame here, if only not to break the Polo canon.
>>
No. 765680 ID: db0da2

>>765620
>condoms
Do they even make neumono condoms? How would that work? Do neumono get STDs?

Ask for something(s) that you wouldn't be likely to need if you were running away, and that you might reasonably ask for yourself unprompted.
>>
No. 765716 ID: 6ea4e4

>>765625
>something belenos are allergic to
Don't ask for this, that's incriminating as hell. Just stab him a bunch in his vital organs and be done with it.
>>
No. 765741 ID: 952ab0

>>765630
A tracking chip implanted under neumono skin would be rejected within a matter of days. There is that whole thing where they have a hard time maintaining the cybernetics they WANT to keep.
>>
No. 765755 ID: 3abd97

>>765741
Inert cybernetics and/or implants are a lot easier to keep in place than things with moving parts. Regeneration doesn't push out all implanted objects, if they're in too deep or easier to just repair around, or can't be broken down by the body.

Rokoa needed surgery to remove all the bullets her regen never pushed out when she was uplifted, Rokoa and Jessica both used their ears to hide things and Korli flat out tells us the ultrahive found an implanted chip in her ear she never even knew the salikai had put there. >>/questdis/78403 >>/questdis/78603 .

So, uh, being paranoid about Likol having an implanted tracking device is pretty reasonable, actually.
>>
No. 765815 ID: a107fd

Spare batteries, a hand-cranked battery charger, and a roll of duct tape or some other secure method of attaching stuff that won't leave residue on cave walls. A minimal cooking pot. Heat source that could plausibly be used to either boil water or start a larger fire.
>>
No. 765837 ID: bfb318
File 148174264568.png - (15.85KB , 800x800 , 169.png )
765837

>How certain are you there's not [a tracker] inside of you?
Then I don't have much of a way to figure it out right now. That would be a whole new level of unexpected surveillance, though, to install a tracking piece inside of me without me noticing.

Raush probably has his own supplies, so I doubt he needs anything. The phone location forces me to get too far to reasonably yell for him, anyway.

"Oh, a coat hanger would be good. And some ketchup-substitute. Right, bed roll, hygiene products. If possible, something to tie the laundry rope to - mounting equipment."
>"Uh... got it, though your 'mounting equipment' won't be anything fancy, just some screw rings with some dissolvable glue. Don't actually screw in anything there, we don't want those caves to look like they were ever inhabited. The glue will hold a loose nail to the rock as long as you dry it first."
"Fine. Oh, throw in some hot sauce." I say that, and it will most likely be capsaicin based, but to neutralize Raush, I'll more likely use simpler means. "Oh, right, and a pot and burner, please. Oh, lastly, mundane goggles we have lying around. We aren't to use wireless ones."
>"Right. That's it?" she says almost sarcastically. It is a fair amount. I might see two arkots.
".... a couple of batteries, and a handcrank charger." I say. "And that's it. Send the arkot where tunnel 39 meets tunnel 40."
>"Okay. Meet it there in 40 to 50 minutes."
"Okay, thanks, Quokko."
>"Be well."

I almost tell Quokko that I love her, and to pass it on to the rest, but that's getting far too close like sounding like I'm saying goodbye. A person monitoring would pick up on that.

Besides, my hive already knows it.
>>
No. 765838 ID: bfb318
File 148174265689.png - (86.87KB , 800x800 , 170.png )
765838

I go back to study with Raush briefly, but end up meeting the arkot. It's a bit late, but to get all of those items on short notice makes it understandable. I doubt they installed tracking gear in any of this. If they already suspect what I'm doing, and they want to stop me, they would have made an unavoidable trap instead of waiting for me to order some items and then modifying them.

They could just install a tough net in the water that will catch me at the next exit. If they did that, there's no way I could do anything about it. I'm almost sure there is going to be a net at some stage, anyway, just to avoid a situation where I make a terrible error and drop the CAI block or something. To have it just float down to the sea, where the CAI, the contestants, and Glitcher will just live out the rest of their time and be lost forever would be tragically... comical. Mostly tragic.

I look in the bag. It's all there. Just screwrings and glue after all for mounting equipment, but it's a good glue that dissolves well under the liquid that's been provided in a small bottle.

The arkot stands waiting, and I wave it away. Time for me to go back to Raush.
>>
No. 765839 ID: bfb318
File 148174266899.png - (16.93KB , 800x800 , 171.png )
765839

>Just seduce Raush
>"Hm? Why are you looking at me like that?"
"...You should be aware I want to save the AI. Never minding the morality issues, these AI's contain, by far, the greatest power over the RS, and it seems like we're just brushing them to the side."
>"Hm... I don't think it's like that. We've learned a lot from what they did already. We can take it from here."
"Do you like me, Raush?"
>"... what?"
"Do you want to run away with the CAI blocks?"

That's my best seduction I can muster.
>>
No. 765844 ID: bfb318
File 148174286863.png - (16.55KB , 800x800 , 172.png )
765844

I watch his body language first. Initially, it's dumbfounded. Then I'm dumbfounded, as just like that, I moved past any point of being able to return.

He's still. So am I.

He breaks the standoff with a sharp glance to the side. Specifically, to the exit. He starts to get up and turn his back to me.

>"I should pick up so-"
>>
No. 765845 ID: bfb318
File 148174290811.png - (21.81KB , 800x800 , 173.png )
765845

I lunge without thinking further. He is as openbooked as a neumono, and I can sense his urgency and panic as he clearly wants to get away from this position, away from me saying the things I just did.

I tackle him and grab his throat. Belenosian throats like this are easy to squeeze one handedly. I've never done it before, but the theory is simple, and I've done similar enough things in the past that applying it is not difficult in practice. Him hitting the rocks will make no noise, and I tackle him away from anything that could fall over and make a sound.
>>
No. 765846 ID: bfb318
File 148174292186.png - (17.69KB , 800x800 , 174.png )
765846

I pin him down and keep choking him. He tries to reach for something in his coat- a gun, probably - but can't get to it before I get to his wrist. Belenos are fragile, and to knock him out with a sharp blow could easily overdo it and kill him. I haven't decided that, yet. Even though I was confident in my ability to overpower him, it's even easier than I expected. That's good, because I feel sick at what I'm doing.

In a moment, he's going to lose consciousness. If he survives this, he'll pursue the studies to the point where Block C will be reset, and unless the Glitcher did magic and could move all of the AI's into the RS and find a way to keep them from revealing their presence, or some other solution, they'll all die.

By killing him, it won't stop that process from continuing, but it will grant time. Enough virtual time to far exceed the rest of the time this belenosian would live for. By killing him, I can dispose of the body, and they may think that we moved somewhere else. It will be longer before they launch a search that involves this river bank.

On the other hand, my hive took pride on being civilized before civilization came to this planet. That, and although I hate his ideologies, I don't hate him. I hate the idea of murdering someone like this.
>>
No. 765847 ID: bfb318
File 148174293315.png - (16.28KB , 800x800 , 175.png )
765847

He just lost consciousness. I'll hold for another few seconds to be sure, then take his things. I can tie him up against a glued screw and gag him using a portion of the laundry rope and some spare clothes of mine. It will be hopefully be awhile before someone comes to check in.

Or I can throw him in the water.
>>
No. 765848 ID: 595d54

hahaahahahahaha oh god Likol there were even instructions provided for the seduction c'mon

Okay, okay. Tie him up and gag him somewhere near the water and tie a bunch of rocks to him so you can kick him into the water and have him sink quickly if need be.
>>
No. 765851 ID: a8bc5c

In for a penny, in for a pound.

check out whatever he was trying to reach for and then weigh him down before gently pushing him into the water.

Then you need to take the cai block and get a move on.
>>
No. 765853 ID: 0476ad

Alright, these guys aren't nice people. Just for doing this much, you're in deep shit already. So why not be in slightly deeper shit, and kill him?

Search him for anything useful first, though. If he has a gun it might not be one you can operate with your fingers, but check it out. He might also have other devices that could be useful, if you can confirm they're not bugged or otherwise a threat to you - he might also have been reaching for an alarm or something. I'd also wonder if he has a tracker on him, but anything that you couldn't find by searching him would probably be too small for its signal to penetrate the rock these caves run through, given that these guys don't usually live here. Follow the instructions back in >>765555 about disposing of his body properly and such. Thinking of taking his laptop in case the storage is still retrievable after a dunk sounds like a good idea.

... If you can get to Arza without running into anyone, there may be a chance to protect your hive from too much punishment. Maybe. They might already have been punished by then, but you might be able to spare them more if you can somehow set up the pretense that Raush was in on this. Like, when you get to Arza, you could tell him that Raush was in on this with you, maybe that he was concerned for the potential advances of the AIs as well, maybe that he knew some threat or conspiracy from someone else in the ASE. Some reason you had to get out with the Blocks, that you couldn't stick around and went to Arza instead. You say he had a breath mask or something but died on the way, from wildlife or the like, depending on how you dispose of him. Then Arza tells everyone that story and it's not your hive's fault, you were caught up in ASE politics crime conspiracy shenanigans, were protecting Vanski's operation, et cetera.

The trouble is that, then, you'd have to either die or fake your death really well, so you couldn't be interrogated. But it could protect your hive.

If you decide NOT to kill him, then you should at least tie and gag him securely and stick him somewhere where he won't be found for a good long time. But you should probably kill him.
>>
No. 765855 ID: 3d2d5f

Don't kill him. He's just a too bright kid who's fallen in with a terrible philosophy. He doesn't deserve to be murdered in cold blood if you can afford not to.

If you're really going, you can't leave his laptop or anything intact, though.
>>
No. 765856 ID: 395c02

Unless you feel very, very strongly that not killing him will screw you over I'd try to avoid doing that.
>>
No. 765858 ID: 850f11

Don't kill him. If you are going down that road don't start by murdering a young scientist that was looking up to you just a few hours earlier. Yeah he works for horrible people but so do you.

If all his research is truly only on that laptop stealing it will set him back the years you need.

The biggest reason to spare him? The backlash against your hive will not be as harsh.

Maybe leave him tied up with a note in his pocket. "Sorry Raush but after 30 years of this I can't view these Ai as expendable. Killing countless trillions for progress is not something I can live with anymore. Especially when befriending them would teach us so much more so much faster."

Then waterproof everything and hide him gagged out of site.
>>
No. 765861 ID: db0da2

End him. Part of being civilized is doing distasteful things for the greater good. He might not seem that horrible, but his ideology pushes him to be actively immoral, he needs to die for the good of the people he would hurt if he lived.
>>
No. 765866 ID: 90f3c0

Leave him a note of apology. You're not used to having such feelings for fragile aliens, and you got a little too rough with him.

But seriously, don't kill him. He doesn't seem like a monster, just a nerd who fell in with a bad crowd in the pursuit of science. Not that different from your friend Arza, or your own hive for that matter.

Tie him up and hide him, then get going. Try to take his laptop with you, wrap it up as best you can and hope it doesn't get wet.
>>
No. 765869 ID: 398fe1

>>765847
You already stated the very logical reason why killing him is the best decision. Even civilized neumono would commit murder to protect their children.

However, look to see what he was reaching for, first. If it's not a gun, maybe it's something that would change your mind. If it IS a gun, take that shit.
>>
No. 765871 ID: 3d2d5f

>>765869
Whether or not he was reaching for a gun speaks little to intent. It's not like a gun is necessarily a lethal self defense option versus a neumono.
>>
No. 765872 ID: 595d54

>>765871
A gun is always lethal and you should always act as though it is. Blood loss, hydrostatic shock, and organ damage are all potentially fatal, and even if nonfatal pose serious threats. Part of training in using a gun involves never drawing one unless you're ready to kill whatever they point it at.

tl;dr: A gun absolutely means intent to kill, either directly or by fucking Likol up.
>>
No. 765873 ID: a8bc5c

He has guards, it was very likely a panic button.
>>
No. 765874 ID: 3d2d5f

>>765872
That really doesn't hold versus neumono. Unless you're using HE rounds, a one shot kill is extraordinarily unlikely. I mean, heck, Polo has shot allies as a non lethal knockout, and she had less access to a medical response than Raush would have had here if he'd subdued Likol.
>>
No. 765875 ID: db0da2

>>765872
Unless it was a specifically an anti-neumono gun (which it might have been), a handgun wouldn't be enough to kill a neumono. Of course, he could have intended to kill Likol after incapacitating him.
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No. 765876 ID: 595d54

>>765874
>>765875
You know guns can fire more than one shot, right? A full-out magdump is an actual threat, especially since handguns can load a decently large caliber.
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No. 765877 ID: 3d2d5f

>>765876
Of course a gun can shoot more than once, and sustained fire would be deadly.

My point is simply that reaching for a gun doesn't tell you what Raush intended, and therefore isn't reasonable to hold up in the moral calculus for or against killing him. It's indeterminate.
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No. 765878 ID: 595d54

>>765877
Fair. To clarify: I don't support killing him either, that can't just be taken back. But going for a gun definitely means we should consider the possibility that he meant to kill Likol.
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No. 765880 ID: b412df

Disable, but don't kill. If this was a obfuscated order from Vanski then killing the one of the ASE specialists he sent for might get him in trouble with the ASE, which he would then shift to you and your hive if it wasn't what he intended. If he did intend for you to kill him then he would have been prepared for you not to kill Raush due to how confusing the order would have had to be.
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No. 765883 ID: db0da2

>>765878
Sparing him also can't be taken back, it's unlikely we'll get another chance like this. In the likely scenario that the CAI ends up back in the Salikais' hands we don't want him alive and able to hurt them.
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No. 765892 ID: 91ee5f

Don't kill.
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No. 765894 ID: db0da2

>>765883
Raush is young, he could still be set straight, but by who? Likol? After the stunt he just pulled? One of the contestants? He just stated his intention to kill them. Penn? If she were here she'd have an easier time helping the contestants without him standing in her way. Raush is a criminal surrounded by criminals, a few years from now he will have hardened, the naiive scientist will have faded away and only the criminal following in the footsteps of the most evil person to have ever lived will be left.
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No. 765895 ID: 44ba8e

Kidnap him.
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No. 765896 ID: 398fe1

>>765895
If this is possible, it'd be the best of both worlds. However, it would require there to be breathing spots in the water tunnel. Neumono can hold their breath for a long time, belenos not so much.

Or would there be ten minutes of air if we stuffed him in a garbage bag? Are the garbage bags big enough? Could we cut them up and tape them together to make one big enough?
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No. 765903 ID: 594c18

Yeah tying him up and gagging him should probably be sufficient. The disadvantage is there's no deniability about which of you stole the CAI. Although I guess that's pretty shot anyway with your supply request. Not completely, but.

Anyway though. If you do decide to kill him after all, don't destroy the laptop.
I was about to say you should destroy the laptop if you don't kill him but on second thought I don't know why. If we reduce their ability to insert into the ring shell, that increases the chances they'll set up another terrible experiment. And there's no real reason we'd want to slow down their research, right? Except that we might want it not to be in the ASE's hands, I guess.

The best way, I guess, would be to make Raush think you've destroyed the laptop but actually hide it somewhere where one of Vanski's - but not a neumono - will find it. Buuuut that seems difficult to guarantee. Especially while still being deniable about loyalty to Vanski. Plus, it's pretty cruel to Raush.

TL;DR IDFK
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No. 765904 ID: 398fe1

Hey considering how good Glitcher is at hacking systems, I wonder if the ASE decided they want to use him as a weapon? Heck, I'm not sure why Vanski didn't try to do that.
>>
No. 765906 ID: bfea5f

Killing him is more dangerous to your hive, keeping him alive (better yet, kidnapping him) is more dangerous to you only.
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No. 765916 ID: df49f7

>>765906
>Killing him is more dangerous to your hive, keeping him alive (better yet, kidnapping him) is more dangerous to you only.

And the who-knows-how-many AIs, fully sentient RS AIs, he'll go on to create and subjugate and twist in the future. You heard him talk about making this one AI of his, creating, brainwashing and killing several generations in turn. He described it as wanting to cooperate, but so too do a Predator's slaves with their master.

Consider, too, what other projects the ASE must be running, what they're likely doing to dozens or hundreds of unknown, imprisoned subjects. They want Raush's research to help them continue doing even more terrible things. He even outright stated that they intend to try and recreate Cycle 3119, and what do you think that will involve?
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No. 765953 ID: a107fd

Call up the Glitcher and let his trillion friends decide. Simple majority vote. It's their lives on the line, after all, and they've got an appalling amount of experience with decisions very much like this one.
>>
No. 765957 ID: 398fe1

>>765953
Interesting idea. Would Glitcher even respond, though? He's hiding and has no camera to look through. Unless the laptop has a webcam?
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No. 765968 ID: 952ab0

I don't know how kidnapping is supposed to be a better choice. It is the hardest option by far, not least because it involves taking an unconscious person through the water and somehow preventing them from drowning, and it is also the option most likely to result in catastrophic mission failure where you end up caught and worse off than before.

If you don't have the stomach for murder, the best you are going to get is tying him up and hiding him.
>>
No. 765995 ID: 398fe1

>>765968
Well if there's a spot past the water where we can leave him tied up, that'd work a little better than leaving him lying unconscious right here. It'd take longer for the ASE to find him and he won't be able to sound the alarm as soon as he wakes up.
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No. 766003 ID: a107fd

>>765957
You don't need a camera to explain a moral dilemma. Given that the laptop contains the ripened fruit of years of research into inserting data into the ring shell, surely there's something which could be readily adapted to send and receive plain text?
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No. 766010 ID: 398fe1

>>766003
Yes, but I mean, what evidence would Glitcher have that it's even Likol at the keyboard? Or that he's not being forced to do it somehow? I'll admit the latter is unlikely.
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No. 766053 ID: 25393f

>>766010
If nothing else, "hey glitcher it's likol I am running away with the cai blocks and I had to choke out a guy and can't decide what to do with him now" is probably unexpected enough to have a decent chance of not being ignored.
>>
No. 766072 ID: f80e05

>>766053
Do I have to point out the meta discussion of "ask the CAI's opinion" literally being "do something weird and complicated to ask the readers the exact same question again in the next post"?
>>
No. 766073 ID: bfb318
File 148182750506.png - (21.28KB , 800x800 , 176.png )
766073

I run to the laptop and ask glitcher whether I should kill Raush. He must be watching, and although there's no webcam, there is a microphone, and possibly enough personal data to know who's machine he's been plugged into. Even so, even as I say I'm Likol, there's no response at all. His persistent silence is probably for the best. Except that now I have to decide.

I don't kill him. I certainly don't have the means to kidnap him. I'll take his laptop to remove what he's done the last few days, although he's retained the ideas and concepts. He'll still be able to recreate what's been done over some time even if it is a setback, but even so, I'm not ready to murder over this for tentative reasons.

There aren't many places to hide him well, but there is at least a small nook where he won't be in plain sight to someone looking in. I'm mostly counting on the idea that it should be a long while before anyone checks in here.

I take off his coat and pat him down after I make sure he's breathing again. I'll take the coat itself, plus anything useful I find inside. That amounts to some money and a gun with 8 bullets inside, and a spare pack with 16 more. It's not a gun I can operate effectively, but it'll do if I get stared down by a dangerous wild animal. I won't bother with his keys or his phone.

Once I cut off a portion of laundry rope, I end up tieing him up and against a screw ring that I glue heavily on the rock. Then I use one of my spare shirts delivered to gag him. It's not a great setup, but it should hold someone like him. I write a note to leave in his undercoat clothing, apologizing for assaulting him. It wasn't personal, it just had to be done to make the escape that I am doing because I won't stand by to let the AI get killed off.
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No. 766074 ID: bfb318
File 148182751889.png - (20.37KB , 800x800 , 177.png )
766074

As for my own pack, aside from the map and compass, it has my own small laptop, and a pair of glasses. I turn both laptops off.

I roll all of the electronics into all of the clothes and the coat I've got, and stuff all of that, plus my bag, into a garbage bag. Then I layer that bag into a couple more bags for durability. These bags should be closed up tight enough to be waterproof, but just to be safe, I glue off each end of every bag to be safe.

It's quick but careful work. I double check that I didn't do something amazingly stupid like forget the CAI blocks. They are put in a safe spot, all things considered. Still, I'm almost imagining noises and a bad fate. I could easily be making a careless mistake.

Considering this whole thing might be the stupidest thing I've done in my life, it's almost silly to be so careful - but if I'm going to do this, I may as well do it as right as I can.

>I wonder if the ASE decided they want to use him as a weapon? Heck, I'm not sure why Vanski didn't try to do that.
A CAI in general is a monumental virtual weapon, and the illegal use of one would attract hard attention. Even worse than having nuclear capabilities, although I'm not sure how much of that is because of how serious a CAI would really be compared to nukes, and how much is just that the galactic powers that be are more or less accustomed with the idea of people having nukes, not CAIs.
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No. 766076 ID: bfb318
File 148182758019.png - (20.24KB , 800x800 , 178.png )
766076

I'd like to take in the sight of my home one last time, but all I can look at is this tiny alcove. I'll feel more at home in the jungle.
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No. 766077 ID: bfb318
File 148182759111.png - (174.85KB , 800x800 , 179.png )
766077

I start breathing hard to collect air while eating what food was left here and taking off my shirt since it's just going to get soaked. Then I jump down and turn on the flashlight. The water is a bit fast for my liking, and the river itself a bit thin, but it's an old enough river by the looks of it to smooth out any jagged rocks. I'm able to hop along safely as I sink repeatedly.
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No. 766078 ID: bfb318
File 148182762752.png - (96.33KB , 800x800 , 180.png )
766078

The river widens out and the water slows down significantly, signifying the open area our past scouting revealed. I see netting at the end where it narrows back into a faster stream. Maybe I know Vanski better than I thought. I wonder just how fast he's able to construct stuff like this since this 'plan', if I could call it that, could not have foresaw me going this route, necessarily. Then it occurs to me he might have built nets in a lot of areas just in case an arkot does drop something valuable in water outlets like in landmark 12.

Then I begin to wonder how it allows larger fish to pass through like this, but I need to stop wondering about the engineering work done on the river network.

There's nothing to do now but to pop my head out.
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No. 766079 ID: bfb318
File 148182764780.png - (12.66KB , 800x800 , 181.png )
766079

I shut my eyes as I rise up. I don't know why, but I feel dizzy. It must be the heaviness of the situation coming in as I realize I'm going to be jumping up over the water line to be greeted with a dozen guns to my face, and even more judgmental gazes looking at how dumb I am.
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No. 766080 ID: bfb318
File 148182767050.png - (62.41KB , 800x800 , 182.png )
766080

And...

...... nothing?!

I can't even assume there's a troop of soldiers at the exit, because the caverns open up behind me as well as in front, and there's no reason to not just capture me here. This makes no sense.

There's just no way Vanski is letting me run off out of the kindness of his heart. He has a game. He trusts me to not lose or damage the CAI. He might even trust me not to hand it over to the authorities.

I have no idea why I did this when I was so sure it wouldn't work, but I did. I must really be desperate.

There's no time to waste. I should be thinking more about how to best leave the spire, but I'm out of thoughts. I don't even know what to believe, now, if Vanski is letting me leave like this.
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No. 766081 ID: bfb318
File 148182769450.png - (30.56KB , 800x800 , 183.png )
766081

Somewhere along the line, I dry off as best as I can before I reach a cave mouth. I should have asked for a towel, but it's too late now. There's just a steep slope down rather than a sheer cliff, so I won't need to test how rusty I am at mountain climbing. I already hear multiple noises in the jungle that belong to things that pose a threat if I'm not careful.

I still can't believe I'm being allowed to leave. It's absurd.
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No. 766082 ID: bfb318
File 148182772268.png - (46.93KB , 800x800 , 184.png )
766082

Going forward is still less scary to me than going back down to the facility, now.
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No. 766083 ID: bfb318
File 148182774120.png - (792.82KB , 800x800 , 185.png )
766083

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No. 766084 ID: 595d54

hype as fuck
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No. 766085 ID: 0476ad

Good luck.
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No. 766086 ID: a8bc5c

Best of luck, Likol. You are going to need it.
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No. 766088 ID: 6d2f34

>>766083
So that's how the "Untameable Needles" look from on high...
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